Auburn/Cam Newton situation (merged)

[BJSforVols]

The by-laws do not say "solicit," they say "receive or agree to receive."

This is an important distinction because it gives the SEC some wiggle room in cases like this.

I don't know the rule, but according to Willie on 104.5 the zone, there is a rule against soliciting and the parent is as the recruit. Willie was a recruit who signed at Vandy. I'd think he'd know the rules half way decent, but he has been wrong before.

 

[BJSforVols]

Of course he suspended Pearl and let Cam play. If Cam leads Auburn to the National Championship the SEC gets what? $20 mill?

If Pearl's father was the one who committed the recruiting violation rather than Pearl and if Pearl had not lied about it, I suspect Slive would not have been as harsh.

 

[roberthunter]

I don't know the rule, but according to Willie on 104.5 the zone, there is a rule against soliciting and the parent is as the recruit. Willie was a recruit who signed at Vandy. I'd think he'd know the rules half way decent, but he has been wrong before.

I posted the rule in this thread. Feel free to read it yourself.

It's a matter of semantics. Does "agrees to receive" include situations where the parent makes the offer and the institution rejects the offer? Slive is taking the stance that the institution has to make an offer before a family member can "agree to receive" it.

The rule could easily be interpreted by saying that if the family member is offering the kid's services for money, the family member is implicitly "agreeing to receive" improper benefits.

If Slive wanted to nail Cam he could have.

All I am saying is the rule does not explicitly state that a family member can't solicit improper benefits.

 

[roberthunter]

Slive protects his cash cows.

I also firmly believe that Slive is trying to help Pearl in the manner he did. Pearl has to be punished publicly by an external force for lying to the NCAA. By doing this, Slive is letting the NCAA tack on a little more and wiping their hands of it instead of having to levy the punishment entirely by themselves, and probably suspending Pearl for an entire year.

We're just not used to being on the good end of Slive's antics. Slive definitely does not want to see Bruce get fired.

 

[BJSforVols]

I posted the rule in this thread. Feel free to read it yourself.

It's a matter of semantics. Does "agrees to receive" include situations where the parent makes the offer and the institution rejects the offer? Slive is taking the stance that the institution has to make an offer before a family member can "agree to receive" it.

The rule could easily be interpreted by saying that if the family member is offering the kid's services for money, the family member is implicitly "agreeing to receive" improper benefits.

If Slive wanted to nail Cam he could have.

All I am saying is the rule does not explicitly state that a family member can't solicit improper benefits.

Is that the NCAA rule or SEC rule. There were callers on the zone today indicating the SEC has a more strict rule than the NCAA regarding this.

 

[BJSforVols]

Slive protects his cash cows.

I also firmly believe that Slive is trying to help Pearl in the manner he did. Pearl has to be punished publicly be an external force for lying to the NCAA. By doing this, Slive is letting the NCAA tack on a little more and wiping their hands of it instead of having to levy the punishment entirely by themselves, and probably suspending Pearl for an entire year.

We're just not used to being on the good end of Slive's antics. Slive definitely does not want to see Bruce get fired.

I agree. I think Slive thought TN was too light on Pearl and wanted to try and put penalties in place that would persuade the NCAA against adding more penalties.

 

[NickZ4UT]

Somebody from the SEC is gotta go to the big game...Let him play.

JMO

NO, there is a rule clearly stated that has been broken and say what you want but I would say the same thing if we were in a similar situation.

On a side note, Slive won't lift a finger for this but he'll hammer anyone else that doesn't make him or the conference money. He's dirty and I've been saying he's dirty for the last three years. Sad really, all of the shady business and underhanded dealing that goes on in the NCAA and the major conferences has caused me to believe that there isn't a single big thing that happens that isn't in some way staged.

 

[PennVol]

There are a lot of knee jerk reactions here and sloppy reading of the ruling. Many of the things that guy claims would be opened up by this ruling are still definitely violations that ignorance on the part of the player would not be a defense to.

I think he's just making the point that this particular ruling makes the slope a bit more slippery, and that this creates a spiral interpretation that will ultimately get very far away from where the original rule was intended to be.

 

[roberthunter]

Is that the NCAA rule or SEC rule. There were callers on the zone today indicating the SEC has a more strict rule than the NCAA regarding this.

It's the SEC rule.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

If Slive was trying to help UTK and Bruce Pearl then why didn't he carry to the NCAA a request that they approve the school's and the conference's punishments as justified and adequate? I think that's what he just did for Auburn. If I understand this correctly, Slive pretty much represented Auburn. How can the SEC commissioner represent one member school (Auburn) to the detriment of another SEC school (South Carolina). I've never liked Slive compared to Roy Kramer and I hope that he gets caught up in a big ball of doodoo over this thing and is forced out in disgrace.

 

[ETV]

It seems pretty simple to me. Slime is to busy worrying about Pearl giving out free BBQ in Knoxville and lying about it than the Cam Burglar taking 200 thousand because Auburn is undefeated. If Auburn had lost 2-3 games Newton wouldn't be playing...Bottom line. Slime is trying to protect his interest as SEC commissioner by backing Auburn and letting the conference win 5 straight national championships

It's more than just about winning a MNC.

There is a substantial dollar amount attached to BCS MNC game for an SEC team involved. Slive is just protecting "his" financial interests.

Checks with 7 to 8 digits are being written and paid out here.

 

[roberthunter]

NO, there is a rule clearly stated that has been broken and say what you want but I would say the same thing if we were in a similar situation.

Please post this clearly stated rule that prohibits a family member from soliciting cash.

 

[BJSforVols]

If Slive was trying to help UTK and Bruce Pearl then why didn't he carry to the NCAA a request that they approve the school's and the conference's punishments as justified and adequate? I think that's what he just did for Auburn. If I understand this correctly, Slive pretty much represented Auburn. How can the SEC commissioner represent one member school (Auburn) to the detriment of another SEC school (South Carolina). I've never liked Slive compared to Roy Kramer and I hope that he gets caught up in a big ball of doodoo over this thing and is forced out in disgrace.

I think Slive has worked a deal with Newton and the NCAA, but you have to admit that the Pearl situation is currently a more severe breaking of rules with the addition of hiding it compared to Newton. (At least at this time while there's no proof Newton took money or even knew about his dad requesting it.)

 

[roberthunter]

If Slive was trying to help UTK and Bruce Pearl then why didn't he carry to the NCAA a request that they approve the school's and the conference's punishments as justified and adequate? I think that's what he just did for Auburn. If I understand this correctly, Slive pretty much represented Auburn. How can the SEC commissioner represent one member school (Auburn) to the detriment of another SEC school (South Carolina). I've never liked Slive compared to Roy Kramer and I hope that he gets caught up in a big ball of doodoo over this thing and is forced out in disgrace.

I do think Slive talked with the NCAA before reprimanding Pearl. I also think public perception matters, and the NCAA knows that they need to levy their own punishment against Pearl as well. The NCAA can't just have coaches lying to them during investigations. But if Slive didn't do anything, the NCAA would be forced to levy a much harsher punishment.

It's important to understand that what happened today hasn't cleared Auburn of wrongdoing, it just says that as of now, the NCAA has no reason to believe Auburn knew that Cecil solicited money from Miss St.

The ruling today does not speak to whether Auburn payed Cam. That investigation is ongoing.

Slive prefers it this way because Auburn can go to the game, make a ton of money for the SEC, then several years later the NCAA can complete their findings, declare Cam retroactively ineligible, and wipe their season off the books. The SEC gets to keep its money.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

It's more than just about winning a MNC.

There is a substantial dollar amount attached to BCS MNC game for an SEC team involved. Slive is just protecting "his" financial interests.

Checks with 7 to 8 digits are being written and paid out here.

Hep me out here. Does the SEC actually get more for a team in the championship game and one in a BCS bowl game or is the same amount for two conference teams in BCS bowl games?

 

[MrBamSeydu]

The SEC rules Cam Newton eligible because he and Auburn knew nothing about the dealings between his parents and the middle man.

Soooo, basically what you're telling future recruits is that if you want to get paid just have your parents get the money and say that you and the school had no knowledge of it??? Really??? :thumbsup:

 

[ETV]

Hep me out here. Does the SEC actually get more for a team in the championship game and one in a BCS bowl game or is the same amount for two conference teams in BCS bowl games?

I believe it's the same amount.

Arkansas with a possible Sugar bowl berth is looking at splitting a $18,000,000 payday, then dividing it up with the SEC and the other 11 teams will receive a certain percentage.

Auburn is in the same position with a BCS MNC game appearance...assuming they defeat South Carolina.

 

[PennVol]

The SEC rules Cam Newton eligible because he and Auburn knew nothing about the dealings between his parents and the middle man.

Soooo, basically what you're telling future recruits is that if you want to get paid just have your parents get the money and say that you and the school had no knowledge of it??? Really??? :thumbsup:

yes, there are 5,000+ articles today from all sorts of writers basically saying to the NCAA: WTF???

 

[CSpindizzy]

So today we find out the NCAA states a rule was broken that questioned Cam's eligibility. The rule was broken in Fall 2009. If this rule violation causes ineligibility, by default shouldn't Cam be ineligible from that point on until the NCAA rules him eligible? The violation of the rule has already been determined. And it occurred a year ago. Auburn just went through the motions BUT publicly acknowledged to the violation and eligibility by filing a petition to reinstate.

The only punishment Auburn should receive is vacating wins up to this point for having a player deemed ineligible by the NCAA play those games unless the payoff was made.

You cannot convince me Cam knew nothing. His dad's construction business gets sued and then goes under. His dad church is close to being demolished by the city. All looks dark in the financial realm of the Newtons. Suddenly the church is up to code. You're telling me Cam knew nothing of these trips to meet with shady booster and these phone calls? You're telling me Cam was not aware of any of this? How was Reverend Cecil supposed to explain coming into $200K? What convinces you to disregard going to the school you like for the one Daddy is pushing really hot and heavy? The man already laid out his son going somewhere for $180K and $200K elsewhere. Are you telling me Cecil pushes Auburn hard all of a sudden for jollies? There's a quick turnaround on "my son wants to go here but I say it will take $180K" to "son, I know you really liked Miss State but you're going to Auburn." This happens in a short time span. First off, what made that immediate transition? Second off, did Cam not say "Daddy, why Auburn all of a sudden?" Either Cam knows and he's lying or he's the dumbest jock since Bobby Boucher.

The whole point for the NCAA is to protect the student athlete. In many cases it is from themselves but in this and similar cases it is from others who prey on them. Unfortunately the 'other' in this case is his own father and I'll throw man of the cloth in there to pile on. With this ruling, the point of the NCAA mentioned above is out the door. In all the crap about protecting kids from exploitation, etc. this opens up another door not only just as a loophole but with official blessing of the NCAA itself. It is official - it is perfectly fine for a parent to pimp, er I mean negotiate a price for in most cases a legal adult to attend a school as long as the parent does so through an intermediary of the school acting on a non-official capacity. The sad part is that this is pure slavery. A kid is placed on the auction block for the highest bidder and the fruits of this deal go to someone else beside the kid. NCAA sanctioned slavery folks.

If the glove don't fit you must acquit.

I still think Hammy needs to declare Pearl ineligible and petition him reinstated the next day.

 

[ETV]

I still think Hammy needs to declare Pearl ineligible and petition him reinstated the next day.

Watching the NCAA come down with a complete suspension for Pearl for the '11 - '12 season will probably be the penalty they have in mind for Pearl.

He is the fatted calf that they will sacrifice.

 

[EZE]

I think Slive has worked a deal with Newton and the NCAA, but you have to admit that the Pearl situation is currently a more severe breaking of rules with the addition of hiding it compared to Newton. (At least at this time while there's no proof Newton took money or even knew about his dad requesting it.)

I absolutely disagree. Asking for 180K and lying about it is a whole lot worse than having a bbq and lying about it.

What happened today is an utter disgrace and shows that the NCAA is a joke. Nothing consistent ever comes out of that institution.

 

[EZE]

Just enough rope...

No, cleared to play and generate millions in television revenue. They don't care if the results are wiped away later 'cause the money already will be in the bank.

 

[ETV]

Just wait til UT basketball is on the verge of a national championship, then Slive will cool his stance on Pearl. That appears to be the qualifying standard here.
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As long has Hamilton is AD, Slive will not back down.

 

[BJSforVols]

I absolutely disagree. Asking for 180K and lying about it is a whole lot worse than having a bbq and lying about it.

If it turns out Cam has lied, then I'll agree with you. Currently no one has lied. It has been admitted that Cecil was looking for money from MSST, but nothing (proof) indicates Cam knew anything about it. Bruce admitted he lied to the NCAA during their investigation. Lying to the NCAA in effort to cover up violations is about as bad as you can do in the eyes of the NCAA. When/if it's found out that Cam has been lying, he and Auburn will be stripped of anything they win this season. That's when it would equate to Bruce's situation. Until that proof shows its head, the Cam situation is minor compared to Bruce's situation.

 

[BJSforVols]

As long has Hamilton is AD, Slive will not back down.

You may be correct, but I think Kiffin was Slive's main target. I don't think Slive has as big of an axe to grind with TN now that Kiffin has left.