Bad Day for Wisconsin

#51
#51
droski said:
not sure i understand your point. personally i'd most definetely prefer to retire after 30 years of service and get 80% of my last years salary for all of retirement including cost of living increases. no chance a 401k with a simple 7% investment per year can reach that level in 30 years baring astronomical stock returns. simple math says that it would take 10 years to pay for ONE year of retirement baring zero stock returns, try paying for 30.



most companies match around 3-4% in 401ks.
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My wife's goes to 10%. But still your numbers are not skewed with TN state retirement. They are comperable plans. TCRS is not breaking the state by any means.
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#52
#52
IPorange said:
Actually read other people's posts in this and other threads. Also, learn about economics. You said Wisconsin's businesses contribute nothing to the state. Get a f***ing clue, that's just a stupid comment.
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Hey, IP. Why don't you explain to me the value-added on the $140 million.

That's what the contribution to the state would have to be to justify this "fiscal crisis."

Did they create jobs? - No.

Did they reinvest? - No.

Did the taxpayer receive > $140 million in benefits? I'd like to see it. Show me the money, IP.

Why don't you elevate your game and get your head back in it instead of talking nonsense? If you think your ridiculous reductionism is "smart" you swung and missed.

Now, fill me in on what I missed, or go take a time out and bring your A-game.
 
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#53
#53
here is how things work in gibbs' world:

18 Republican senators from Wisconsin report getting death threats after passing bill to end collective bargaining for most public workers | Wausau Daily Herald | wausaudailyherald.com

The letter, which is signed, says the writer is working with a group of people and knows where the legislators live. It says legislators may be shot in their homes or killed with bombs placed at locations they frequent.

"We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die," the letter reads. "If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will 'get rid of' (in which I mean kill) you."
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#54
#54
utgibbs said:
Hey, IP. Why don't you explain to me the value-added on the $140 million.

That's what the contribution to the state would have to be to justify this "fiscal crisis."

Did they create jobs? - No.

Did they reinvest? - No.

Did the taxpayer receive > $140 million in benefits? I'd like to see it. Show me the money, IP.

Why don't you elevate your game and get your head back in it instead of talking nonsense?
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Just idiotic, similar to this $137 vs $140 bs that you've just made up.
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#56
#56
MG1968 said:
corporations create jobs, and with Illinois raising their corporate income tax, Wisconsin is trying to attract business away from Illinois.

One of Walker's campaign promises was to create a boom which created 250K private sector jobs. If he doesn't live up to that, he can be voted out of office in 2014.

I'm all for giving the private sector a chance. Government has proven it can't properly manage money or create jobs.
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He looks on a collision course for recall in 2012.

I think it would be a cool trick. Nothing substantial, mind you, but a cool trick.
 
#57
#57
BigPapaVol said:
Just idiotic, similar to this $137 vs $140 bs that you've just made up.
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Posted the exact accounting straight Madison in the other thread.

And $137 million is Walker's number.

It's over, Rock!
 
#58
#58
This is a classic liberal want everything for nothing attitude. They want a company to pay high taxes and pay the employees higher wages while providing a product which is reasonably priced. Guarantee you Gibbs is one of those folks who go into a store and complain about the price of cheese going up and that the company who made it is just ripping off the consumer. The price went up because the price of doing business (taxes and wages) went up. More then like the taxes went up due to the latest Wisconsin Gov't employee bargaining success story and the wages went up because the local cheese head union won their battles too.

You can't have your cheap cheese and eat it too.
 
#59
#59
hohenfelsvol said:
This is a classic liberal want everything for nothing attitude. They want a company to pay high taxes and pay the employees higher wages while providing a product which is reasonably priced. Guarantee you Gibbs is one of those folks who go into a store and complain about the price of cheese going up and that the company who made it is just ripping off the consumer. The price went up because the price of doing business (taxes and wages) went up. More then like the taxes went up due to the latest Wisconsin Gov't employee bargaining success story and the wages went up because the local cheese head union won their battles too.

You can't have your cheap cheese and eat it too.
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I don't buy my cheese at the store.
 
#60
#60
droski said:
not sure i understand your point. personally i'd most definetely prefer to retire after 30 years of service and get 80% of my last years salary for all of retirement including cost of living increases. no chance a 401k with a simple 7% investment per year can reach that level in 30 years baring astronomical stock returns. simple math says that it would take 10 years to pay for ONE year of retirement baring zero stock returns, try paying for 30.



most companies match around 3-4% in 401ks.
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Sorry, wasn't clear. My point is, I don't see it as a sustainable system. On a 52k final 5year avg salary (top for a teacher with Masters) the pay out is projected to be 2047 a month. 24k a year.

Not exactly a big time salary. Now, if you are a principal or administrator, that increases, but it's not a big-time retirement plan. The TN plan doesn't work like a true pension.

That said, I would rather have a 3-4% match and choose my investment.

https://ja.state.tn.us/treasury/tcrs/iirc/StateTeachersInput.jsp
 
#61
#61
utgibbs said:
Posted the exact accounting straight Madison in the other thread.

And $137 million is Walker's number.

It's over, Rock!
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I don't give a crap whose number it is. It's political gibberish and you went far enough to say that the corporate world in Wiscy has been net negative to the state economy. As IP said, that's effing stupid.
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#62
#62
jwells said:
Sorry, wasn't clear. My point is, I don't see it as a sustainable system. On a 52k final 5year avg salary (top for a teacher with Masters) the pay out is projected to be 2047 a month. 24k a year.

Not exactly a big time salary. Now, if you are a principal or administrator, that increases, but it's not a big-time retirement plan. The TN plan doesn't work like a true pension.

That said, I would rather have a 3-4% match and choose my investment.

https://ja.state.tn.us/treasury/tcrs/iirc/StateTeachersInput.jsp
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but surely these teachers would be smart enought start an IRA or other savings.
 
#64
#64
BigPapaVol said:
I don't give a crap whose number it is. It's political gibberish and you went far enough to say that the corporate world in Wiscy has been net negative to the state economy. As IP said, that's effing stupid.
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It clearly has been regarding the $140 million in giveaways, which was always the issue.

Show me > $140 million to the state of Wisconsin. Show me the money!
 
#65
#65
joevol320 said:
but surely these teachers would be smart enought start an IRA or other savings.
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One would hope. The retirement system is projected to be better than a simple IRA, but I don't see it being viable 30 years from now. It scares me.
 
#66
#66
BigPapaVol said:
I don't give a crap whose number it is. It's political gibberish and you went far enough to say that the corporate world in Wiscy has been net negative to the state economy. As IP said, that's effing stupid.
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did he really say that?

he really needs to take an economics class.

maybe he should ask all the shops that set up around those evil corporate buildings, that rely on the money those evil corporate people spend on lunch, etc...
 
#68
#68
sjt18 said:
Actually WI took a major step back from that. No longer can tax dollars be laundered into the campaign coffers of politicians who serve only an "elite" few.
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You mean on the few days in which they expect to have any shot of actually winning a vote and, therefore, aren't hiding in other states?
 
#69
#69
utgibbs said:
It clearly has been regarding the $140 million in giveaways, which was always the issue.

Show me > $140 million to the state of Wisconsin. Show me the money!
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No. If you're too dense to piece it together, I'm not bothering. Just suffice it to say that I find you a waste of oxygen on all matters concerning economics and finance. Not that it's rare from those of your insane bent, but it's still pathetic. I won't be bothering any mire.
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#70
#70
utgibbs said:
It clearly has been regarding the $140 million in giveaways, which was always the issue.

Show me > $140 million to the state of Wisconsin. Show me the money!
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you want to see if given back to the state when in fact the benefits were given back to the people (the goal of gov't right?) and the likelihood that it exceeded $140mil is very high
 
#71
#71
utvolpj said:
you want to see if given back to the state when in fact the benefits were given back to the people (the goal of gov't right?) and the likelihood that it exceeded $140mil is very high
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It's just a patently absurd argument.
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#72
#72
sjt18. it will be interesting to see how many people opt out of unions now, since their dues are no longer forcefully taken out of their checks. they'll enjoy that raise.
 
#73
#73
utgibbs said:
He looks on a collision course for recall in 2012.

I think it would be a cool trick. Nothing substantial, mind you, but a cool trick.
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Walker will never be recalled. The primary instigators of the civil unrest in Madison are outside groups who don't live anywhere near Wisconsin. They will also be tired from running around the country since several more states are planning to decrease the power and reach of public sector unions.

Once everybody goes home and things return to normal, WI public employees will discover that having a job is far better than not having one.
 
#74
#74
utgibbs said:
Hey, IP. Why don't you explain to me the value-added on the $140 million.

That's what the contribution to the state would have to be to justify this "fiscal crisis."

Did they create jobs? - No.

Did they reinvest? - No.

Did the taxpayer receive > $140 million in benefits? I'd like to see it. Show me the money, IP.

Why don't you elevate your game and get your head back in it instead of talking nonsense? If you think your ridiculous reductionism is "smart" you swung and missed.

Now, fill me in on what I missed, or go take a time out and bring your A-game.
Click to expand...

evidence that no jobs were created. . .?
 
#75
#75
joevol320 said:
did he really say that?

he really needs to take an economics class.

maybe he should ask all the shops that set up around those evil corporate buildings, that rely on the money those evil corporate people spend on lunch, etc...
Click to expand...

Sigh.

Those shops would still be there if the workers owned the corporations, for instance.

They are all around the military bases in the country (and outside the country).

They are all around the BBC offices in London.

They used to be all around Main Street USA when people actually owned businesses.

etc.
 
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