Barnes offense is hot trash.....

#101
#101
1985Vols said:
So in other words what we pay for coaches means nothing? Do you not agree that with an exorbitant salary and being one of the highest paid coaches in the country comes a certain level of expectations on the court? Wasted scholarships ( Pember, Anosike, Plavisc)
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Please explain how you can ignore or discount the difficulty in taking a dumpster fire program (and, yes, that description is very accurate when your program has accusations of being racist playing on national news and both your roster and recruiting pipeline are subpar by SEC standards) and turning it into a Top 20 program within 3 seasons. Before you answer, suggest you research our success on the football side of the house trying to find a coach who can make us competitive and relevant again.
 
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#102
#102
MinisterofDef#92 said:
Please explain how you can ignore or discount the difficulty in taking a dumpster fire program (and, yes, that description is very accurate when your program has accusations of being racist playing on national news and both your roster and recruiting pipeline are subpar by SEC standards) and turning it into a Top 20 program within 3 seasons. Before you answer, suggest you research our success on the football side of the house trying to find a coach who can make us competitive and relevant again.
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Our program was accused of being racist? I think that's everyone in the last 20 years. That's what the media does.
 
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#107
#107
Maybe a bit of a hot take, but last 3 games, which is what has really prompted a lot of the offensive struggle talks...

2pt: 43/101=42.5%
3pt: 15/59=25%
FT: 38/64=59%
TO’s: 14.7

Season Averages:
2pt: 50.3%
3pt: 34%
FT: 73%
TO’s: 10.1

So if we play to our averages in those games that’s 2 more made 2’s per game, 2 more made 3’s per game, 3 more made FT’s per game, 4.5 more FGA...that’s about 16 more expected PPG, which likely results in 1 more win and much more respectable point totals.

I say this to say, 3 game sample size isn’t huge, teams go cold for small stretches, there are plenty of examples of this...add in Fulky a bit injured as well as Vescovi and Springer banged up and I am more in a wait and see approach rather than calling for a total overhaul. 3 games ago we had a Top 25 offensive efficiency nationally and we seemed to be trending upwards in that area, I’m not ready to revamp things based on 3 games that involved injuries.
 
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#108
#108
bleedingTNorange said:
Maybe a bit of a hot take, but last 3 games, which is what has really prompted a lot of the offensive struggle talks...

3pt: 15/59=25%
FT: 38/64=59%
TO’s: 14.7

Season Averages:
3pt: 34%
FT: 73%
TO’s: 10.1

So if we play to our averages in those games that’s 2 more made 3’s per game, 3 more made FT’s per game, 4.5 more FGA...that’s about 12 more expected 12 more expected PPG, which likely results in 1 more win and much more respectable point totals.

I say this to say, 3 game sample size isn’t huge, teams go cold for small stretches, there are plenty of examples of this...add in Fulky a bit injured as well as Vescovi and Springer banged up and I am more in a wait and see approach rather than calling for a total overhaul. 3 games ago we had a Top 25 offensive efficiency nationally and we seemed to be trending upwards in that area, I’m not ready to revamp things based on 3 games that involved injuries.
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If a frog had wings.......

Still waiting on your Florida and Missouri post game write ups.
 
#110
#110
bleedingTNorange said:
We are 11-3 and tied for 2nd in the SEC and ranked Top 20 nationally, keep telling us how Retirement Rick won’t work out!
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Nah.

They think White will magically hire someone better than Barnes after he just got done hiring Josh Heupel. Lol
 
#112
#112
Is Fulky hurt? He is half the player he was last year. The shooting is horrible and this is a final 16 team at best. Lack of toughness and hustle has been common- think Covid has something to do with all this?
 
#113
#113
MinisterofDef#92 said:
Please explain how you can ignore or discount the difficulty in taking a dumpster fire program (and, yes, that description is very accurate when your program has accusations of being racist playing on national news and both your roster and recruiting pipeline are subpar by SEC standards) and turning it into a Top 20 program within 3 seasons. Before you answer, suggest you research our success on the football side of the house trying to find a coach who can make us competitive and relevant again.
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I’ve said a dozen times I like CRB and appreciate what he has done for our program. I think there are plenty of coaches that could have taken the program that Cuonzo left behind and turned it into a Top 20 program. It’s not like we don’t have the resources to win here, right? All I am trying to say is at some point, CRB needs to show that he is “worth” $5M a year. So far this season, our team that was a consensus pre season pick to win the SEC is obviously not going to reach that expectation. Since basketball is a tournament sport, CRB still has time to coach them up and earn his $5M.
 
#114
#114
1985Vols said:
I’ve said a dozen times I like CRB and appreciate what he has done for our program. I think there are plenty of coaches that could have taken the program that Cuonzo left behind and turned it into a Top 20 program. It’s not like we don’t have the resources to win here, right? All I am trying to say is at some point, CRB needs to show that he is “worth” $5M a year. So far this season, our team that was a consensus pre season pick to win the SEC is obviously not going to reach that expectation. Since basketball is a tournament sport, CRB still has time to coach them up and earn his $5M.
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How often in the history of the program has TN been ranked as high as they have been this year? When was the last time that TN has had 2 lottery picks on the roster with another signed being added next season?
 
#115
#115
Thunder Good-Oil said:
How often in the history of the program has TN been ranked as high as they have been this year? When was the last time that TN has had 2 lottery picks on the roster with another signed being added next season?
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Thunder I always like your posts. Recruiting has improved tremendously since he hired English. Our roster has never been as loaded since Ray Mears teams in the mid 70’s, especially looking ahead to next year. All I want to see now are results.
 
#116
#116
NathanDugger20 said:
We are a long ways away from being a final 4 team with this terrible offense. We are 14 games in and it's literally declining. We'll be lucky to finish as a top 6 team in SEC when it's all said and done. Very underwhelming and depressing. I had high hopes for this team before the season started but that is completely gone. Can't wait to hear the excuses....if there are any
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Man, you need to recognize that this is the university of Tennessee. We are not basketball royalty like Duke. We don't make final 4s. We don't win SEC titles very often. Hell, we just hope to make a post season tournament most years. This team is far from perfect, but on most nights we've got a better than even shot of beating almost anyone we play. We'll likely finish with 20+ wins on the year and have a selection sunday to look forward to. Better start appreciating what we DO have and enjoy the ride while it lasts. Barnes ain't gonna coach forever and as the football program has shown us, we can be worse off....much.
 
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#117
#117
1985Vols said:
Thunder I always like your posts. Recruiting has improved tremendously since he hired English. Our roster has never been as loaded since Ray Mears teams in the mid 70’s, especially looking ahead to next year. All I want to see now are results.
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How so?
 
#118
#118
CAVPUT said:
Man, you need to recognize that this is the university of Tennessee. We are not basketball royalty like Duke. We don't make final 4s. We don't win SEC titles very often. Hell, we just hope to make a post season tournament most years. This team is far from perfect, but on most nights we've got a better than even shot of beating almost anyone we play. We'll likely finish with 20+ wins on the year and have a selection sunday to look forward to. Better start appreciating what we DO have and enjoy the ride while it lasts. Barnes ain't gonna coach forever and as the football program has shown us, we can be worse off....much.
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True and I’m not advocating for a Barnes firing or anything like that. He’s overpaid but there’s no salary cap on coaching salaries so it doesn’t truly matter.

The problem I’m having (and I’m doing some forecasting as well) is the inconsistency. This year is a very good team and we will make the tourney. But look at next year and we are probably gonna lose 4/6 top players (depending on Fulky). We don’t have a big committed or we lead on right now. I don’t trust any post player at the 4/5 on the current roster that isn’t a senior to play more than 10 mpg in an SEC game. Mashack is gonna be fun but needs seasoning. Next years team is going to struggle most likely.

If Barnes misses the tournament again in 2022 (and we are FAR OFF from that) that’s 3/7 of NCAAT appearances. And if we have another early exit this year? I don’t think that is acceptable. But again...that’s far off
 
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#119
#119
zjcvols said:
True and I’m not advocating for a Barnes firing or anything like that. He’s overpaid but there’s no salary cap on coaching salaries so it doesn’t truly matter.

The problem I’m having (and I’m doing some forecasting as well) is the inconsistency. This year is a very good team and we will make the tourney. But look at next year and we are probably gonna lose 4/6 top players (depending on Fulky). We don’t have a big committed or we lead on right now. I don’t trust any post player at the 4/5 on the current roster that isn’t a senior to play more than 10 mpg in an SEC game. Mashack is gonna be fun but needs seasoning. Next years team is going to struggle most likely.

If Barnes misses the tournament again in 2022 (and we are FAR OFF from that) that’s 3/7 of NCAAT appearances. And if we have another early exit this year? I don’t think that is acceptable. But again...that’s far off
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Going off Pons/Johnson/Springer leaving you’ve got...

Chandler/Vescovi/Bailey/James/Mashack/Fulky/ORN/Anosike/Plavsic/Gaines/Pember...playing small ball I think that’s a tourney team. I think you’ll see Tennessee a player for an impract transfer in the post and should be pretty appealing considering they’ll play along side arguably the top PG in the nation and have a great chance at big minutes.

How did he miss the dance last year when there was no dance? So make it this year and again next year and that’s 4 NCAAT appearances in a row and 4/6 years, and further solidifying him having Tennessee as a Top 15 program nationally.
 
#120
#120
bleedingTNorange said:
Going off Pons/Johnson/Springer leaving you’ve got...

Chandler/Vescovi/Bailey/James/Mashack/Fulky/ORN/Anosike/Plavsic/Gaines/Pember...playing small ball I think that’s a tourney team. I think you’ll see Tennessee a player for an impract transfer in the post and should be pretty appealing considering they’ll play along side arguably the top PG in the nation and have a great chance at big minutes.

How did he miss the dance last year when there was no dance? So make it this year and again next year and that’s 4 NCAAT appearances in a row and 4/6 years, and further solidifying him having Tennessee as a Top 15 program nationally.
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#121
#121
Barnes wasn’t going to make the tourney in 2020 even if there was one. Want to say 20 win season instead we can argue that instead. Whatever semantics you want to use.
 
#122
#122
zjcvols said:
Barnes wasn’t going to make the tourney in 2020 even if there was one. Want to say 20 win season instead we can argue that instead. Whatever semantics you want to use.
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They were in the conversation, entering the dance they were outside looking in, but 2 wins in Nashville and it would’ve been a discussion...not like we are talking about a 10 win team here who’s metrics were garbage, every metric had them as a bubble team.

And no, 20 wins doesn’t mean much, Andy Kennedy had a bunch of those with his horrendous SOS...yes it’s about tourney appearances, right now Barnes is 2/4, sitting on 2 years in a row, looks like he’ll be 3/5 and 3 in a row after this season unless you’re assuming they fall of a cliff.

Again, next years squad looks pretty good to me, hard to say what they’ll be until we know exactly who’s coming/going, but with the likely guards they’ll have on campus that’s a pretty damn good staff to another tourney team.
 
#123
#123
zjcvols said:
Barnes wasn’t going to make the tourney in 2020 even if there was one. Want to say 20 win season instead we can argue that instead. Whatever semantics you want to use.
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It’s disingenuous to also fault Barnes for not getting his first 2 teams out of that dumpster fire and immediately into the NCAAT. 3rd coach in 3 years is a better point to bring up.
 
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#124
#124
bleedingTNorange said:
Maybe a bit of a hot take, but last 3 games, which is what has really prompted a lot of the offensive struggle talks...

2pt: 43/101=42.5%
3pt: 15/59=25%
FT: 38/64=59%
TO’s: 14.7

Season Averages:
2pt: 50.3%
3pt: 34%
FT: 73%
TO’s: 10.1

So if we play to our averages in those games that’s 2 more made 2’s per game, 2 more made 3’s per game, 3 more made FT’s per game, 4.5 more FGA...that’s about 16 more expected PPG, which likely results in 1 more win and much more respectable point totals.

I say this to say, 3 game sample size isn’t huge, teams go cold for small stretches, there are plenty of examples of this...add in Fulky a bit injured as well as Vescovi and Springer banged up and I am more in a wait and see approach rather than calling for a total overhaul. 3 games ago we had a Top 25 offensive efficiency nationally and we seemed to be trending upwards in that area, I’m not ready to revamp things based on 3 games that involved injuries.
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People will deride you, but this is a good point. This team is very streaky shooting the ball, and that makes the offense look bad even if you do all the other things right.

The Florida game was bad, and the effort looked poor. On the whole, though, this team is taking the best shots, based upon the metrics, in the conference. The problem is that the shots aren't going in the basket. The movement without the ball is very good, and the ball movement has been good for the most part.

We may be a pure shooter away from having a great offense, but the problem could be that we don't really have that guy on the team. Vescovi can hit shots, but some nights he is very cold. Bailey can hit shots, but he forces the ball sometimes. Pons and JJJ can hit shots at times, but they are not aggressive to take those shots. I've not really seen Keon be a huge shooter, but he can slice to the basket. I think Springer can do a bit of it all, and we will see if he continues to progress, which I suspect he will.
 
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