BasketVols in the NBA (Pros)

#676
#676
TheMookieMonster said:
I’m all-in on this season, but boy oh boy is it not exciting to think about a possible Kennedy Chandler return. I mean, if that happens and you can keep the rest of the band together and only have Fulky leave….that’s a pretty stout lineup for next year.

The odds of all those pieces aligning are probably pretty small, but a man can dream.
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Im trying to imagine a UT team without Fulky on it. He's been on the team so long it feels like he's been on every team since the dawn of time
 
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#677
#677
VolArmy74 said:
Ben Simmons shot 67 percent at LSU and was the #1 pick in the draft as a PG.
Markelle Fultz was a 64% ft shooter in college and was drafted #1 overall. Lonzo Ball went 2nd overall and was a notoriously bad ft shooter. He shot 45 percent his first two years in the NBA. John Wall went #1 overall and was a 75 percent ft shooter at Kentucky. Derrick Rose shot 71 percent from the line, #1 overall pick. De'Aaron Fox was the #5 overall pick, 71 percent ft shooter at Kentucky. Dennis Smith Jr, #9 overall, 71 percent ft shooter at NC State. Collin Sexton #8 pick, 77% at Alabama. Darius Garland in his brief Vandy career, 75, #5 overall. Tyrese Halliburton #12 overall, 77% career at Iowa State. Cole Anthony #15 overall, 75%ft shooter.

I could go on for a long time. PGs who shoot in the 70s are very very frequently drafted in the 1st round. To the extent that more of them are selected in the 1st round than guys who are exceptional college ft shooters at pg. College FT % seems to be well down the list of draftable intangibles for a pg looking at 1st round picks over the last 10-15 years.
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Imagine thinking these guys are in the mold of Chandler, an undersized guard who’s biggest question is his shot. Simmons, really? Wanna compare Shaq next? Read a NBA scout or two and tell me what they’re questioning, it’s his shot, goodness gracious my man.
 
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#679
#679
bleedingTNorange said:
Correct, he’s 6/10 (60%) over the last 4 games if that’s what you meant by last few? Scouts aren’t looking at 1 game where he went 6/6 and suddenly going to disregard the other 20 games.
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That’s fair. Obviously I had a poor impression of his recent free throw success
 
#681
#681
bleedingTNorange said:
Imagine thinking these guys are in the mold of Chandler, an undersized guard who’s biggest question is his shot. Simmons, really? Wanna compare Shaq next? Read a NBA scout or two and tell me what they’re questioning, it’s his shot, goodness gracious my man.
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They all play PG, all have the ball in their hands in end game situations, where ft shooting is stressed. Link me some actual NBA scouts, not draft websites, and I'll happily take them seriously.

P.s. I can name many more PGs of all sizes who shot fts in the 70s or worse that were 1st round picks. Like Kris Dunn who shot under 70 percent at Providence 4 years in a row and got drafted 5th in 2016. Dejaunte Murray shot 66 percent at Washington and was a first rounder that same year. As a matter of fact, no 1st round PGs that year shot higher than 78 percent from the line. 2015 D'Angelo Russell shot 75 percent from the line and was the #2 overall pick. Terry Rozier shot 77 percent for his career at Louisville and was a 1st round pick in 2015. Marcus Smart was a lottery pick in 2014 who shot 72 percent that year at OK State. Elfrid Payton was 4 picks later in the lottery and he shot 61 percent from the FT line in his 3 year career at Louisiana. Tyler Ennis, lottery pick, 75 percent at Syracuse.
 
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#682
#682
bleedingTNorange said:
@VolArmy74 how many sub 6’1” guards that shots <70% FT and <35%3ptfg have been drafted in the Top 20? Top 25? Top 30?
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Allen Iverson was the #1 overall pick at 6'0 165, he shot 31 percent from 3 and 68 percent from the FT line at GT. Though you added several things on that weren't previously mentioned there. Your argument that a 75% FT shooting percentage hurts point guard draftees doesn't hold water when the majority of them that have been drafted in the first round in the last 25 years shot in the 70s or lower.
 
#683
#683
VolArmy74 said:
Allen Iverson was the #1 overall pick at 6'0 165, he shot 31 percent from 3 and 68 percent from the FT line at GT. Though you added several things on that weren't previously mentioned there. Your argument that a 75% FT shooting percentage hurts point guard draftees doesn't hold water when the majority of them that have been drafted in the first round in the last 25 years shot in the 70s or lower.
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I’m not part of this argument, but comparing KC to AI only hurts your position
 
#684
#684
walkenvol said:
I’m not part of this argument, but comparing KC to AI only hurts your position
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I'm just naming a player that fits his size/% criteria. The original argument is that point guards draft stock is hurt when they shoot in the 70s or lower from the FT line. The reality is the vast majority of PG draft picks shoot in the 70s or lower.
 
#685
#685
walkenvol said:
I’m not part of this argument, but comparing KC to AI only hurts your position
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P.S. Kennedy is having an overall better freshman season than AI did at GT. AI scored more but he also shot a whole lot more. He averaged almost 2x the turnovers Kennedy is averaging at nearly 5 per game, he averaged fewer rebounds, fewer assists, and his fg numbers were worse across the board. We know what AI became so it is easy to say don't compare the two, but we don't know what Kennedy will become yet.

In a different system, KC is likely putting up 20+ a game this year himself.
 
#686
#686
You’re only looking at the ones that got drafted with his stats. I think it’d be a lot more telling to look at the ones with his stats that did not get drafted. That’s the data that matters.

Most of the ones you list had some other nba skills that made them stick out a bit more than their peers with similar size and numbers.
 
#687
#687
VolArmy74 said:
Allen Iverson was the #1 overall pick at 6'0 165, he shot 31 percent from 3 and 68 percent from the FT line at GT. Though you added several things on that weren't previously mentioned there. Your argument that a 75% FT shooting percentage hurts point guard draftees doesn't hold water when the majority of them that have been drafted in the first round in the last 25 years shot in the 70s or lower.
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So 1? And it was AI, got it.
 
#688
#688
VolArmy74 said:
I'm just naming a player that fits his size/% criteria. The original argument is that point guards draft stock is hurt when they shoot in the 70s or lower from the FT line. The reality is the vast majority of PG draft picks shoot in the 70s or lower.
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I didn’t think I had to lay out the entire basis of why…KC’s shot is considered his weakness, he’s good/elite in other areas, his size caps his ceiling…right now what’s hurting his stock the most is his shooting. Comparing him to PG’s who are 5” taller to try and prove he doesn’t have to shoot better is an empty argument.
 
#689
#689
VolArmy74 said:
P.S. Kennedy is having an overall better freshman season than AI did at GT. AI scored more but he also shot a whole lot more. He averaged almost 2x the turnovers Kennedy is averaging at nearly 5 per game, he averaged fewer rebounds, fewer assists, and his fg numbers were worse across the board. We know what AI became so it is easy to say don't compare the two, but we don't know what Kennedy will become yet.

In a different system, KC is likely putting up 20+ a game this year himself.
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Doesn’t matter what the college stats say, anyone who has watched those 2 guys play know that AI is at another level of athleticism than KC and that’s not a knock on KC in any way.
 
#690
#690
VolArmy74 said:
Allen Iverson was the #1 overall pick at 6'0 165, he shot 31 percent from 3 and 68 percent from the FT line at GT. Though you added several things on that weren't previously mentioned there. Your argument that a 75% FT shooting percentage hurts point guard draftees doesn't hold water when the majority of them that have been drafted in the first round in the last 25 years shot in the 70s or lower.
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I saw AI live in college multiple times. There is only one Allen Iverson.
 
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#694
#694
These guys are close..

Trey Burke - 36% 3PT, 77% FT (Round 1, Pick 9)

Kemba Walker - 32% 3PT, 78% FT (Round 1, Pick 9)

Kyle Lowry - 32% 3PT, 73% FT (Round 1, Pick 24)
 
#695
#695
TrippieRedd said:
These guys are close..

Trey Burke - 36% 3PT, 77% FT (Round 1, Pick 9)

Kemba Walker - 32% 3PT, 78% FT (Round 1, Pick 9)

Kyle Lowry - 32% 3PT, 73% FT (Round 1, Pick 24)
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If anything you just further proved my point, all of the guys you listed returned to school and improved their shot, you listed their career %…

Burke got drafted as a sophomore, when he shot 39% 3pt, 80% FT (35% & 74% year prior)

Kemba Walker got drafted as a junior, when he shot 33% 3PT, 82% FT (31% & 74% 2 prior years)

Kyle Lowry got drafted as a sophomore, when he shot 44% 3PT, 79%FT (23% & 64% year prior)
 
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#696
#696
Chandler has a really weird release. Too much wrist action. Reminds me of a toned down version of Shawn Marion’s release.

He needs a full time elite shooting coach to fix that. Would be better off going NBA if the goal was to fix that shot. No matter where he was drafted.

Unless he can get a bucket of NIL money and spend it on moving and working with the shooting coach in the offseason.
 
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#697
#697
bleedingTNorange said:
If anything you just further proved my point, all of the guys you listed returned to school and improved their shot, you listed their career %…

Burke got drafted as a sophomore, when he shot 39% 3pt, 80% FT (35% & 74% year prior)

Kemba Walker got drafted as a junior, when he shot 33% 3PT, 82% FT 31% & 74% 2 year prior)

Kyle Lowry got drafted as a sophomore, when he shot 44% 3PT, 79%FT (23% & 64% year prior)
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Ahhhhhh I see now. Okay let me do a little digging because i'm curious.

I was about to put Isaiah Thomas, but didn't realize till just now he was a 2nd round guy.
 
#698
#698
I guess the closest are both 6'1

Mike Conley - 69% FT, 30% 3PT

Eric Bledsoe - 66% FT, 38% 3PT

You also have Davion Mitchell with 64% FT, but dudes shooting numbers were great with 44% 3PT.
 
#700
#700
TrippieRedd said:
I guess the closest are both 6'1

Mike Conley - 69% FT, 30% 3PT

Eric Bledsoe - 66% FT, 38% 3PT

You also have Davion Mitchell with 64% FT, but dudes shooting numbers were great with 44% 3PT.
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Conley isn’t a bad find, his a:to numbers were amazing and he was such a great facilitator, but that may be the best find for a one and done there is.

Clearly it’s hard to find guys that are that size (undersized) who struggled to shoot like KC has and were drafted that highly…now there’s still games left and a hot streak could raise those numbers and make it a moot point, but as of now KC is an interesting case when trying to find a comp. Shariffe Cooper is a guy that many point times as a comp, his 3pt numbers were worse than KC’s but FT% was great at 85% and averaged almost 8 assists a game, yet fell to the 2nd round because of questions about his size and shot.
 
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