Bible Topic Thread (merged)

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

What is there to take on?

What is the difference between this and God commanding Joshua to destroy Jericho?

No difference. I'm saying that I don't personally believe that they were following orders from God.

 

[salutethehill]

Hey, OE, thanks for the conversation :thumbsup:. I love discussing this. Please note that my view point is directly from the Word of God. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.
On a side note, didn't you have a flyer promoting a Gospel Meeting at a church of Christ on here recently? Maybe I'm seeing things. I'll be off the computer for a little while but I'll check back on this thread soon.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

No difference. I'm saying that I don't personally believe that they were following orders from God.

That is a very interesting argument.

From your perspective you cannot justify a "God" ordering such a thing to happen?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Hey, OE, thanks for the conversation :thumbsup:. I love discussing this. Please note that my view point is directly from the Word of God. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.
On a side note, didn't you have a flyer promoting a Gospel Meeting at a church of Christ on here recently? Maybe I'm seeing things. I'll be off the computer for a little while but I'll check back on this thread soon.

Yeah, I thought my viewpoint came from the word of God also. :dunno:

Can't say that I have ever promoted the CoC.

Before you come back, can you explain how baptism over faith saves someone?

John 1:12-13
John 3:15
John 3:16
John 3:18
John 3:36
John 5:24
John 6:35
John 6:40
John 6:47
John 7:38-39
John 11:25-26
John 20:31
Acts 2:21
Acts 10:43
Acts 11:17
Acts 13:38-39
Acts 15:11
Acts 16:31
Acts 20:21
Romans 1:16
Romans 3:22
Romans 3:26
Romans 3:28
Romans 3:30
Romans 5:1
Romans 10:9
Romans 10:11
Romans 10:13
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Galatians 2:16
Galatians 3:2-9
Galatians 3:14
Galatians 3:24
Galatians 3:26
Ephesians 2:8-9
2 Thessalonians 2:10
2 Thessalonians 2:12
1 Timothy 4:10
2 Timothy 3:15
Titus 3:8
1 John 5:1
1 John 5:11-13

:salute:

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

That is a very interesting argument.

From your perspective you cannot justify a "God" ordering such a thing to happen?

I would have a hard time following a God who would order such a thing.

 

[JZVOL]

I see that nobody wants to take this one on, so I'll put it as a direct question.

Thus says the Lord of Hosts: 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up out of Egypt. 'Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' " (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NKJV)

So is the Bible inerrant or not? Did God command the Israelites to committ genocide, or did they later claim it was from God to cover up their atrocities?

Here is what I know(from the Bible so I guess you could call it belief but the Bible is a fact for me )

God the Father is pure holiness and can't be in the presence of sin.

In the OT BLOOD sacrifices were needed to be made for forgiveness of sin.

As far as I can the Israelites were the only people seeking the ONE true God. All other people (Gentiles) were pagans worshiping FALSE IDOLS

Every time the Israelites turned from God the Father they suffered terrible trajedies.

I believe the world was so wicked that God the Father flooded the earth. So I guess according to you God murdered innocent people that to ME were not innocent.

I did not read this verse or surrounding verses but Deut. 22:21 says "... you must puge evil." the Bible also says all sin is punishable by death but Jesus petitions God the Father on our behalf for forgiveness.

So if you were God and beings you created were worshiping false idols what would you do?

Would you have theown Lucifer and his angels from Heaven for rebelling against you or say that's all right guys no harm done?

There has to be consequences for ungodliness

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I would have a hard time following a God who would order such a thing.

I am guessing you do not buy into the God has a overall master plan argument.......?

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Here is what I know(from the Bible so I guess you could call it belief but the Bible is a fact for me )

God the Father is pure holiness and can't be in the presence of sin.

In the OT BLOOD sacrifices were needed to be made for forgiveness of sin.

As far as I can the Israelites were the only people seeking the ONE true God. All other people (Gentiles) were pagans worshiping FALSE IDOLS

Every time the Israelites turned from God the Father they suffered terrible trajedies.

I believe the world was so wicked that God the Father flooded the earth. So I guess according to you God murdered innocent people that to ME were not innocent.

I did not read this verse or surrounding verses but Deut. 22:21 says "... you must puge evil." the Bible also says all sin is punishable by death but Jesus petitions God the Father on our behalf for forgiveness.

So if you were God and beings you created were worshiping false idols what would you do?

Would you have theown Lucifer and his angels from Heaven for rebelling against you or say that's all right guys no harm done?

There has to be consequences for ungodliness

Let's take it a step further. God knew in advance that man would fall, yet He chose to create us anyway. There was one and only one command in the beginning, stay away from the tree of knowledge. Knowing in advance what would happen, God chose to leave the tree in the garden when He could have removed it. Isn't that kinda like putting a loaded gun on the table, telling your five year old son to leave it alone, then leaving the room? From my perspective the deck is stacked against mankind from the get go.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

I am guessing you do not buy into the God has a overall master plan argument.......?

All those Amalekite babies apparently didn't fit into that plan

 

[JZVOL]

Also the OT was a time of war and intense fighting for land. God made it clear that an enemy of the Jews was an enemy of his because the Jews worshiped Him and the other peoples of the world worshiped idols. To destroy an enemy you don't spare people because the survivors will rise up against you in the future.

We will also never agree on the Bible because I believe it is the unquestionable WORD OF GOD, you have said you don't. I will never question God or what the Bible says but will always test what others say about it including my pastor to make sure it is biblical.

 

[JZVOL]

Let's take it a step further. God knew in advance that man would fall, yet He chose to create us anyway. There was one and only one command in the beginning, stay away from the tree of knowledge. Knowing in advance what would happen, God chose to leave the tree in the garden when He could have removed it. Isn't that kinda like putting a loaded gun on the table, telling your five year old son to leave it alone, then leaving the room? From my perspective the deck is stacked against mankind from the get go.

I guess to a certain extent you are correct but I don't see a problem with that. Adam and Eve still had a CHOICE to NOT eat from the tree. Every person has a choice to seek God, listen to the word and belive it or to dismiss it. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Why would you let a person in your house when they have chosen to ignore you?

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

We will also never agree on the Bible because I believe it is the unquestionable WORD OF GOD, you have said you don't. I will never question God or what the Bible says but will always test what others say about it including my pastor to make sure it is biblical.

k: I only have to disagree with one point in your post.

To destroy an enemy you don't spare people because the survivors will rise up against you in the future.

Not necessarily. God has proven that He can overide a person's free will any time He chooses, and impose His own will, the way He did with Pharoah. He could have protected the Israelites from the descendants of the Amalekites without killing them all. I'm sorry but I can't buy that one.

 

[JZVOL]

Also I'm glad God decided to create us with the ability to choose. He could have created to follow Him without question. But instead he gave you the ability to choose to believe His word or not to believe it I think it is good to look at the Bible and study what is says but I'm not God and I will never have the answers to every question. I don't have the ability to understand everything but I am willing to put faith in Him that He knows what He is doing. I believe God created the Heavens and Earth from nothingso I choose to Belive that the creator of the universe is able to have a book representing Him to His liking.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Why would you let a person in your house when they have chosen to ignore you?

I probably wouldn't let them into my house, but I certainly wouldn't throw them into a fire pit and torture them for eternity.

 

[JZVOL]

k: I only have to disagree with one point in your post.


Not necessarily. God has proven that He can overide a person's free will any time He chooses, and impose His own will, the way He did with Pharoah. He could have protected the Israelites from the descendants of the Amalekites without killing them all. I'm sorry but I can't buy that one.

That is true also God can do whatever He chooses. I don't know His motives or inner thoughts so I guess we will find out one day. Jesus didn't half to take a beating or hang on a cross and die but he did. He could have just forgiven us without allowing Himself to die, but He did. Again I don't understand why that was the only way but He does and I want to trust Hims so I can be in His presence and ask Him one day.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

I've got to get out of here for now. I'll pick this back up tomorrow. Good discussion.

 

[JZVOL]

Same to you

 

[salutethehill]

Yeah, I thought my viewpoint came from the word of God also. :dunno:

Can't say that I have ever promoted the CoC.

Before you come back, can you explain how baptism over faith saves someone?

John 1:12-13
John 3:15
John 3:16
John 3:18
John 3:36
John 5:24
John 6:35
John 6:40
John 6:47
John 7:38-39
John 11:25-26
John 20:31
Acts 2:21
Acts 10:43
Acts 11:17
Acts 13:38-39
Acts 15:11
Acts 16:31
Acts 20:21
Romans 1:16
Romans 3:22
Romans 3:26
Romans 3:28
Romans 3:30
Romans 5:1
Romans 10:9
Romans 10:11
Romans 10:13
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Galatians 2:16
Galatians 3:2-9
Galatians 3:14
Galatians 3:24
Galatians 3:26
Ephesians 2:8-9
2 Thessalonians 2:10
2 Thessalonians 2:12
1 Timothy 4:10
2 Timothy 3:15
Titus 3:8
1 John 5:1
1 John 5:11-13

:salute:

Hey OE, I don't recall stating that baptism over faith saves someone. I want to make myself clear that you must have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved. That, however, is not the only thing the Bible teaches someone must do to be saved.

Is belief all that is necessary?
Check out what Matthew 7:21-23 says:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

or James 2:19

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

When you think about, the demons do believe in God. They know there is a God and they know Jesus is God's son. Are the demons saved?

 

[JZVOL]

I probably wouldn't let them into my house, but I certainly wouldn't throw them into a fire pit and torture them for eternity.

What if you were the father of that house, with many children, and you were children were under attack and enslaved and other people were trying to murder your children. What would you do at that point?

 

[therealUT]

I doubt that MBRO is going to respond to your question with:

Throw them in a fire pit and torture them for eternity.

I am going to side with MBRO.

 

[JZVOL]

Hey OE, I don't recall stating that baptism over faith saves someone. I want to make myself clear that you must have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved. That, however, is not the only thing the Bible teaches someone must do to be saved.

Is belief all that is necessary?
Check out what Matthew 7:21-23 says:

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

or James 2:19

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

When you think about, the demons do believe in God. They know there is a God and they know Jesus is God's son. Are the demons saved?

Yes!

Check out verse 15 Jesus is talking about false prophets not baptism. "Watch out for false prophets."

 

[JZVOL]

I doubt that MBRO is going to respond to your question with:

Throw them in a fire pit and torture them for eternity.

I am going to side with MBRO.

I wouldn't think either of you would That would be boring. Where did you go in this convo? Get sick of the back and forth?

 

[therealUT]

I took a break after someone decided to refer to Catholics as "false teachers."

 

[JZVOL]

I figured something like that. Truthfully because you are Catholic I'm protestant there is going to be plenty we disagree on but as long as we both believe Jesus is the only way to Heaven we'll get to talk about all of this for eternity. I ask you tough questions because I want to understand what Cathoilics believe because it is very interseting to me and not to upset you!

 

[salutethehill]

What does the Bible teach that we must do to be saved?

We must hear the Word of God, the Bible (Romans 10:14, 10:17). Common sense, how can you believe in something you've never heard?

We must believe that Jesus is the son of God. We must have faith in Jesus Christ. John 3:16 and countless other scriptures. I don't think there's any argument here.

We must repent of, or turn away from, our sins.
Luke 13:5 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”
Acts 17:30 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
Also: II Corinthians 7:10, Luke 15:7, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19, Acts 26:20, 2 Corinthians 7:9

We must confess our faith.
Matthew 10:32-33 32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
Romans 10:9-10 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We must be baptized.
Mark 16:16 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Acts 2:37-38 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 3:21 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness (Matthew 3:15).

There are also several examples in the New Testament. Actually, every conversion recorded in the book of Acts included baptism.
Check out the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:26-40.
Key scriptures:
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” (I wonder what they were talking about)
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. Again, rejoicing after the baptism. Why was there no rejoicing when he said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”? I will never understand why so many people will not accept this. You can not deny the scriptures.

Last of all, we must remain faithful until death.
Revelation 2:10 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Matthew 10:22 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Please help me locate an example of someone praying Jesus into their heart in the Bible.