Bible Topic Thread (merged)

#403
#403
JZVOL said:
I agree baptism is important but here is a question: What happens if a friend, who is not believer in Jesus, and I go hunting and I witness to Him. He accepts Jesus as his savior but on the car ride home we get in a wreck and die. Is that person saved or not?

What if there was no water around? Is he unsaved until he finds water? The believing comes before the baptism. This could go in circles but the believing always comes first in those verses you quoted.

I mean if you have to be baptized to be saved why would anyone preach the gospel if they weren't near water because nobody would be able to be saved.
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Hey guys. Sorry I didn't post yesterday. I've come down with a case of bronchitis (as I do every spring, allergies) and I spent the day in bed yesterday. I see I have some catching up to do so I'll start with the above post.

What is the likelyhood of that happening? Do you think that if someone truly had a penitent heart and wanted to be baptized that an all powerful God wouldn't be able to protect that person until you found water?

Also, I don’t like answering a hypothetical with a hypothetical, but consider this. You don’t argue that you must confess Jesus to man to be saved.
Matthew 10:32-33 32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
What if your friend believed but died before he got a chance to tell anyone?

You don’t argue that repentance is essential to salvation.
Luke 13:5 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”
What if your friend was committing a sin and died in the process at the very moment he believed? He never got a chance to repent.

What if he was about to believe? You see my point.

There was a sense of urgency with every biblical baptism performed.
Ananias told Saul/Paul, Why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized(Acts 22:16).
The Philipian jailor went at that same hour (midnight) and was baptized (Acts 16:33).
The Ethiopian eunuch was being told about Jesus when they came upon some water and he was immediately baptized (Acts 8:36-38).
Why do you think that is?

This is why baptism was taken care of immediately in the Bible and must be taken care of immediately today. I would hate to be in a situation or have a friend in a situation where it was too late.
 
#404
#404
OrangeEmpire said:
If you believe baptism is a component for salvation then you believe baptism saves you, not Jesus.

:thumbsup:

Baptism is not necessary for salvation. It is the initiatory sign and seal into the covenant of grace. As circumcision referred to the cutting away of sin and to a change of heart (Deut. 10:16; 30:6; Jer. 4:4; 9:25,26; Ez. 44:7,9) baptism refers to the washing away of sin (Acts 2:38; 1 Pet. 3:21; Tit. 3:5) and to spiritual renewal (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:11-12). The circumcision of the heart is signified by the circumcision of the flesh, that is, baptism (Col. 2:11-12).

One last thought: If someone maintains that baptism is necessary for salvation, is he adding a work, his own, to the finished work of Christ? If the answer is yes, then that person would be in terrible risk of not being saved. If the answer is no, then why is baptism maintained as being necessary the same way as the Jews maintained that works were necessary?
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With this being said I want to touch on why baptism is a necessary part of salvation. There's no denying that that baptism and salvation were inseperable in the New Testament. Most people argue for the symbolic expression of baptism, and then move on to say that if it's just expression we don't HAVE to have it.

But then you get to Romans 6 that explains baptism is our death to the old life and birth to life in Christ. The death that Jesus died was once for all mankind...

Romans 6:10 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

...but until each man dies himself he cannot partake of the eternal life offered by Christ.

Romans 6:4 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The ONLY place the Bible speaks of us dying to ourselves and becoming new is through...any guesses? Baptism - a literal act demonstrative of our dying, being buried, and rising to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4).

Baptism is the moment when our sins are forgiven:
Acts 2:38 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is the moment we become clothed in Christ:
Galatians 3:27 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Baptism is the moment when we are added to the body:
Acts 2:41 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
1 Corinthians 12:13 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Baptism, then, can be described by Peter in 1 Peter 3:21 as saving us- not because of its physical action (removal of the dirt from the body), but because it is our appeal to God for a clean conscience through the resurrection of Christ.
I Peter 3:21 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Baptism is an act of obedience that is commanded in the New Testament. Every word I just typed (whew) is scriptually accurate.
 
#405
#405
Keep in mind there is a HUGE difference in BAPTISM IN WATER and BAPTISM IN THE SPIRIT. Are we not confusing the two in any way?
 
#408
#408
salutethehill said:
With this being said I want to touch on why baptism is a necessary part of salvation. There's no denying that that baptism and salvation were inseperable in the New Testament. Most people argue for the symbolic expression of baptism, and then move on to say that if it's just expression we don't HAVE to have it.

But then you get to Romans 6 that explains baptism is our death to the old life and birth to life in Christ. The death that Jesus died was once for all mankind...

Romans 6:10 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

...but until each man dies himself he cannot partake of the eternal life offered by Christ.

Romans 6:4 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The ONLY place the Bible speaks of us dying to ourselves and becoming new is through...any guesses? Baptism - a literal act demonstrative of our dying, being buried, and rising to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4).

Baptism is the moment when our sins are forgiven:
Acts 2:38 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is the moment we become clothed in Christ:
Galatians 3:27 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Baptism is the moment when we are added to the body:
Acts 2:41 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
1 Corinthians 12:13 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Baptism, then, can be described by Peter in 1 Peter 3:21 as saving us- not because of its physical action (removal of the dirt from the body), but because it is our appeal to God for a clean conscience through the resurrection of Christ.
I Peter 3:21 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Baptism is an act of obedience that is commanded in the New Testament. Every word I just typed (whew) is scriptually accurate.
Click to expand...

Scriptually accurate according too?

:banghead2:
 
#410
#410
CSpindizzy said:
I think some of those verses are referring to something besides immersion in water baptism.
Click to expand...

As do I.

:thumbsup:

It is exactly like prophecy in the Bible. When prophecy is mentioned there is a short term revealing and a long term revealing.

Just to give an example, Revelation and the Roman Empire/Nero and the Apocalypse/Anti-Christ.
 
#412
#412
OrangeEmpire said:
As do I.

:thumbsup:

It is exactly like prophecy in the Bible. When prophecy is mentioned there is a short term revealing and a long term revealing.

Just to give an example, Revelation and the Roman Empire/Nero and the Apocalypse/Anti-Christ.
Click to expand...

:eek:k:
 
#417
#417
JZVOL said:
I was thinking a white mustang for the horsepower
Click to expand...

Why not a Viper with 600 horses?

Hey!

What about my question about the prophecy thing?

Agree, disagree or indifferent.

We need a good prophecy discussion, make your answer a good one!:salute:
 
#418
#418
Ahhh...you bring up prophecy. Which could open a whole new line of discussions. Do you believe that knowledge, prophecy, and tongues gifts have ceased or that all gifts are still available through the Holy Spirit? I reference where I debate with my Baptist preacher - 1 Corinthians starting with verse 8 or 9.
 
#419
#419
CSpindizzy said:
Ahhh...you bring up prophecy. Which could open a whole new line of discussions. Do you believe that knowledge, prophecy, and tongues gifts have ceased or that all gifts are still available through the Holy Spirit? I reference where I debate with my Baptist preacher - 1 Corinthians starting with verse 8 or 9.
Click to expand...


I believe there is no more prophecy to be revealed, just fulfillment and studying of it.

Again tongues is something I just don't believe. It has been takin so far out of context that it has gotten silly.

I didn't want to talk too much about this though cause I'm about to go to the gym and have some stuff to do tonight.
 
#421
#421
Except for the law enforcement part same for me. My grandfather is a Baptist Minister and my brother and I work for my dad's company.

And you will have to forgive me, I'm a little rusty on my biblical prophecy. I am very fascinated by it though and used to be a heavy reader of Revelation butit just drove me nuts trying to understand it all.
 
#422
#422
Spin are you taking about I Cor 1:8-9

8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
#424
#424
JZVOL said:
Except for the law enforcement part same for me. My grandfather is a Baptist Minister and my brother and I work for my dad's company.

And you will have to forgive me, I'm a little rusty on my biblical prophecy. I am very fascinated by it though and used to be a heavy reader of Revelation butit just drove me nuts trying to understand it all.
Click to expand...

I actually was at the same point, I started talking to my brother about Revelation and he told me to key in on color, numbers and signs.

It is fairly interesting once you start focusing on those keys.
 
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