Bible Topic Thread (merged)

[volmanic]

Why is it you constantly keep taking shots at people for not believing the same as you? That judgmental attitude is really going to get you someday

I'm not. I'm simply stating that I don't agree with your opinions. So if you end up with cancer, will you hate God. Would you risk putting your life on the line, going to hell, and hating God?


OR

Would you take that situation, give it to him and let him use you to lead other to him.

 

[volmanic]

I would like to share my testimony if you will all suffer me to do so. About 17 years ago I was not a practicing Christian, not attending church, but trying to live my life in a manner I thought pleasing to God. I was one of those who rationalizes not attending church as unnecessary to being a believer.
My Father became ill and went into surgery for pancreatitis, for a Whipple procedure. Much too soon we were called by the Dr. who told us the biopsy showed cancer, whch he expected as soon as he viewed the pancreas, "I've seen cancer enough times, that I knew what the lab would say, so I abandoned the procedure as it was a waste of time and money. Your husband/Father has 3 to 4 months left"
We were devastated, my Mom was unconsolable. I had not prayed since I was young, and really didn't know how to pray, but I prayed constantly day and night, and I promised God if he would spare my Dad, I would get my two children going to church regularly, and I would get myself to church and do whatever he had in mind for me to do with my life. I know now we are not to ask for trade outs from God in this manner, but was ignorant. Three days later, a significant number in scriptures, the Dr. came in and said the lab was no longer sure of their diagnosis, and a sample was sent to the Mayo Clinic where they said it looked more benign than malignant. I felt a tremendous chill up my spine that was so clearly telling me God had answered. We had Dad transferred to Duke where they did the Whipple successfully, and declared him cancer free. His original Dr. said he still stood by his diagnosis/prognosis, but someone else's hand had intervened. I know this is long, but I needed to tell it all. Dad is still doing ok today. I rarely miss church and am an Elder and member of the choir.

What a WONDEFUL testimony, and a blessing. Thank you for sharing.

 

[tnvolsfan85]

I would like to share my testimony if you will all suffer me to do so. About 17 years ago I was not a practicing Christian, not attending church, but trying to live my life in a manner I thought pleasing to God. I was one of those who rationalizes not attending church as unnecessary to being a believer.
My Father became ill and went into surgery for pancreatitis, for a Whipple procedure. Much too soon we were called by the Dr. who told us the biopsy showed cancer, which he expected as soon as he viewed the pancreas, "I've seen cancer enough times, that I knew what the lab would say, so I abandoned the procedure as it was a waste of time and money. Your husband/Father has 3 to 4 months left"
We were devastated, my Mom was unconsolable. I had not prayed since I was young, and really didn't know how to pray, but I prayed constantly day and night, and I promised God if he would spare my Dad, I would get my two children going to church regularly, and I would get myself to church and do whatever he had in mind for me to do with my life. I know now we are not to ask for trade outs from God in this manner, but was ignorant. Three days later, a significant number in scriptures, the Dr. came in and said the lab was no longer sure of their diagnosis, and a sample was sent to the Mayo Clinic where they said it looked more benign than malignant. I felt a tremendous chill up my spine that was so clearly telling me God had answered. We had Dad transferred to Duke where they did the Whipple successfully, and declared him cancer free. His original Dr. said he still stood by his diagnosis/prognosis, but someone else's hand had intervened. I know this is long, but I needed to tell it all. Dad is still doing ok today. I rarely miss church and am an Elder and member of the choir.

So...reading your post gave me chills! What an amazing testimony that you are able to give to God! I'm so glad that your dad is doing great! :clapping: Thanks for sharing this!

 

[utvolpj]

I'm not. I'm simply stating that I don't agree with your opinions. So if you end up with cancer, will you hate God. Would you risk putting your life on the line, going to hell, and hating God?


OR

Would you take that situation, give it to him and let him use you to lead other to him.

If those are the choices I'll take me chances. I see no reason a merciful God would create/use pain to force people to believe.

If God truly micromanages everything then I've seen him do some pretty ruthless things to the best and most important people in my life. Things that would honestly pale in comparison to anything he could do to me.

 

[hndog609]

Allowing for nature to take it's course and purposely giving someone cancer is to entirely different scenarios. You are proposing the latter, which I find ridiculous.

I love my religion and feel bad for people that don't know the similar enjoyment of it. But views like PJ has are understandable when I see views like yours.

I think I went on record a while back on this kind of thing. Basically, if God were truly in ACTIVE control of everything then He'd be just as Pacino's Lucifer characterized Him in The Devil's Advocate...a sick, sadistic bastard. If I read today's world news and then took a nice jaunt around Children's Hospital to top it off and then worked from the premise that all I had read and seen was by DESIGN and not just how it worked out I would have nothing but pure unbridled hatred of Him.

I don't of course, since to me the whole point is the stage is set and what we do with our time here, whatever card we're dealt, is who we are.

Anyway, that's my take.

 

[volmanic]

If those are the choices I'll take me chances. I see no reason a merciful God would create/use pain to force people to believe.

If God truly micromanages everything then I've seen him do some pretty ruthless things to the best and most important people in my life. Things that would honestly pale in comparison to anything he could do to me.

So Pj.... Are you angry and or mad at God for doing those things?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

No. He does control everything. Thus if he allows something to happen he still controls it.

So which is it?

Both are completely different.....

 

[breezybird]

Alright...I was just made aware of this thread and I've been reading the last few pages or so, and I just can't sit back and not say anything. I have to say something.


In the last week to week and a half, I almost lost my Mother. She went in for a standard Hernia surgery at the end of June and, as of last Tuesday night (the 8th), there were concerns she wasn't going to make it. She ended up with over a liter of infection in her abdomen (causing a high fever and many complications). After emergency surgery on Wednesday (the 9th), she is now feeling somewhat better. She is STILL in the hospital, with a few complications and a stomach that is completely open and a drain tube still attached in her stomach.

Do I think God allowed this? YES, I DO.

Do I think it was "fair" that my Mom had to go through this? No, I don't

Am I questioning God and His grace and mercy? NO, I'M NOT!

No, it wasn't fair that my Mom almost died. No, it's not fair that I have been through complete and total hell the past few weeks.

But, GOD IS STILL GOOD. This trial that my entire family has gone through was not just some random occurence. God does not put us in this world and then just leaves us be.

God took this trial and He is working it for His good. He allowed Satan to attack my Mom, but He never left her side!

There are so many people out there who are praising God for this....b/c God allowed this to happen, but didn't let go.

Yes, my Mom could have died. Yes, it would have killed my soul. But, I would still have praised God. It might have taken a while to get over the shock, but no matter what happens, you just have to believe GOD HAS A PLAN FOR EVERYTHING.

And maybe I will never know why this happened. But, that's okay....because if we completely understood why God does the things He does, then God wouldn't be the mighty and glorious God He is.

It's not our place to understand the whys or why nots....it's our place to just trust that God knows what He is doing and that He will get us through ANYTHING.

We are not promised a perfect world while we are alive. That's not the point. The point is to trust God and lean on Him while we are alive....to prepare to spend eternity with Him in Heaven. That's His big plan!

So, yes....bad things happen. And yes, God allows them....but He stands right by us and gets us through it.

Being a Christian and believing in and loving God does not guarantee a world without heartache or fear.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Does any one believe that accidents occur and illnesses are natural and God uses these situation for his glory?

Or is basically what I am reading is that God afflicts people with injury and disease for his glory?

 

[utvolpj]

So Pj.... Are you angry and or mad at God for doing those things?

I don't believe any God had anything to do with them. I believe life sucks sometimes and you deal. Just saying that if your God takes personal responsibility for all of that then I won't waste my time

 

[rbroyles]

I totally believe God had my dad go through his ordeal to test all our families faith, and give me the opportunity to turn to Him and change my life.

 

[volmanic]

Alright...I was just made aware of this thread and I've been reading the last few pages or so, and I just can't sit back and not say anything. I have to say something.


In the last week to week and a half, I almost lost my Mother. She went in for a standard Hernia surgery at the end of June and, as of last Tuesday night (the 8th), there were concerns she wasn't going to make it. She ended up with over a liter of infection in her abdomen (causing a high fever and many complications). After emergency surgery on Wednesday (the 9th), she is now feeling somewhat better. She is STILL in the hospital, with a few complications and a stomach that is completely open and a drain tube still attached in her stomach.

Do I think God allowed this? YES, I DO.

Do I think it was "fair" that my Mom had to go through this? No, I don't

Am I questioning God and His grace and mercy? NO, I'M NOT!

No, it wasn't fair that my Mom almost died. No, it's not fair that I have been through complete and total hell the past few weeks.

But, GOD IS STILL GOOD. This trial that my entire family has gone through was not just some random occurence. God does not put us in this world and then just leaves us be.

God took this trial and He is working it for His good. He allowed Satan to attack my Mom, but He never left her side!

There are so many people out there who are praising God for this....b/c God allowed this to happen, but didn't let go.

Yes, my Mom could have died. Yes, it would have killed my soul. But, I would still have praised God. It might have taken a while to get over the shock, but no matter what happens, you just have to believe GOD HAS A PLAN FOR EVERYTHING.

And maybe I will never know why this happened. But, that's okay....because if we completely understood why God does the things He does, then God wouldn't be the mighty and glorious God He is.

It's not our place to understand the whys or why nots....it's our place to just trust that God knows what He is doing and that He will get us through ANYTHING.

We are not promised a perfect world while we are alive. That's not the point. The point is to trust God and lean on Him while we are alive....to prepare to spend eternity with Him in Heaven. That's His big plan!

So, yes....bad things happen. And yes, God allows them....but He stands right by us and gets us through it.

Being a Christian and believing in and loving God does not guarantee a world without heartache or fear.

Another awesome testimony. VERY well put! :good!:

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I totally believe God had my dad go through his ordeal to test all our families faith, and give me the opportunity to turn to Him and change my life.

The ordeal would not have happened unless God made it happen?

 

[volmanic]

I don't believe any God had anything to do with them. I believe life sucks sometimes and you deal. Just saying that if your God takes personal responsibility for all of that then I won't waste my time

That is so sad to hear PJ. I know that I will be praying for you, and that your mindset changes. I hope you realize that God does love you.

 

[breezybird]

The ordeal would not have happened unless God made it happen?

Please don't take this the wrong way.....but it just really feels like you want to argue and not listen to anything anyone says. It's hard to have a conversation when the person just wants to argue....


My response to this is that there is a difference between God MAKING something happen and ALLOWING it to happen.....

Satan makes it happen....God allows it and steps in and handles it.

 

[hndog609]

Satan makes it happen....God allows it and steps in and handles it.

Now there's an interesting topic. Just how much control is Satan allowed to exert?

 

[rbroyles]

The ordeal would not have happened unless God made it happen?

I strongly feel that way, it's not just what the Bible says, it is what my heart tells me. For many years I could barely tell my story it made me so emotional. I wept every time to the point of barely being able to speak. Even today my eyes are swollen with tears. I just know God's hand was there.

 

[rbroyles]

Please don't take this the wrong way.....but it just really feels like you want to argue and not listen to anything anyone says. It's hard to have a conversation when the person just wants to argue....


My response to this is that there is a difference between God MAKING something happen and ALLOWING it to happen.....

Satan makes it happen....God allows it and steps in and handles it.

I believe OE is asking us to give our true opinions, not questioning them. Being the devils advocate?

 

[volmanic]

Now there's an interesting topic. Just how much control is Satan allowed to exert?

God is in control of all, even Satan. So God ALLOWS Satan to MAKE things happen in your life.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Please don't take this the wrong way.....but it just really feels like you want to argue and not listen to anything anyone says. It's hard to have a conversation when the person just wants to argue....


My response to this is that there is a difference between God MAKING something happen and ALLOWING it to happen.....

Satan makes it happen....God allows it and steps in and handles it.

1.) You know nothing about me....

2.) Ignore me......

Keep it simple....

 

[OrangeEmpire]

God is in control of all, even Satan. So God ALLOWS Satan to MAKE things happen in your life.

So Satan afflicts us?????????????

Satan causes the accidents?????

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I strongly feel that way, it's not just what the Bible says, it is what my heart tells me. For many years I could barely tell my story it made me so emotional. I wept every time to the point of barely being able to speak. Even today my eyes are swollen with tears. I just know God's hand was there.

:hi:

 

[volmanic]

So Satan afflicts us?????????????

Satan causes the accidents?????

Satan causes the accidents. God Allows them. If God didnt want the accidents to happen, they wouldnt. I can also see that this is going nowhere. I am tired of arguing. Your opinions are your opinions, and I respect them all.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Satan causes the accidents. God Allows them. If God didnt want the accidents to happen, they wouldnt. I can also see that this is going nowhere. I am tired of arguing. Your opinions are your opinions, and I respect them all.

Of course it goes somewhere, you have no idea who is watching and forming their own opinions of the subjects discussed in this thread.

A lot of people choose to pm to the posters of the thread and it is a great opportunity for you to talk about your faith.

Who is arguing..... the premise of the whole discussion is to have fun......

The great part about debate is being challenged on what you believe........

Take a better point of view with this!

:hi:

 

[hndog609]

God is in control of all, even Satan. So God ALLOWS Satan to MAKE things happen in your life.

I think you misunderstood my query. Anyone familiar with the story of Job understands what you just said, Satan asked permission (basically on a bet) to tear into Job's world.

My question is, (to whomever) to what extent do you think Satan is given dominion over earthly outcomes?