Bible Topic Thread (merged)

[JZVOL]

Anybody that says Jesus taught this or that teaching, and points to the NT as proof.

My point is it is all hearsay upon hearsay, edited throughout history with agenda driven church leaders. Contrary to what Christians believe, nobody really knows what Jesus said or did.

I personally think if what the Bible says about Jesus is true, then he had plenty to say about how to treat people and ideas on social justice. However, I believe the walking on water, resurrection, fedding the masses, exorcisms, raising the dead, being God, etc...is nonsense.

I can understand how people don't believe the Bible.

But why would someone who puts there faith in Christ believe He couldn't accurately represent Himself in a book but create the Heavens and earth?

The great thing is we will all find out at some point. Only difference is the vantage point and the temperature...

 

[BigPapaVol]

As far as the process, the evidence for evolution is undeniable.

As far as how life and matter began in the first place, I have no idea. And neither does anybody else. Just because something can't be explained doesn't give religion or supernatural explanations license to insert their hoaky beliefs. People can believe what they want, of course, but I find it much more honest to say "I don't know" then to point to a book and claim to have all the anwers.

again, hokey is a matter of perspective.

Evolution is grounded in reasonable science. Evolution to the human and a conscience is not.

 

[KB5252]

As far as the process, the evidence for evolution is undeniable.

As far as how life and matter began in the first place, I have no idea. And neither does anybody else. Just because something can't be explained doesn't give religion or supernatural explanations license to insert their hoaky beliefs. People can believe what they want, of course, but I find it much more honest to say "I don't know" then to point to a book and claim to have all the anwers.

I certainly don't believe i know the answers of exactly how the process our being took place. The problem that many have in reading the Bible is that they take a literal approach instead of understanding there are way too many things that were and are beyond our ability to understand. In this respect i believe that science is a good tool in understanding many of the concepts that were simply too advanced to explain in the time in which the Bible was written. The biggest difference between you and I is that you see religion and science at odds at every turn. I think they can exist cooperatively.

 

[rjd970]

If Christians are right in their beliefs, then it is very likely that the books being propagated are a very reasonable accounting of what transpired, even if flawed by human hands.

This doesn't mean a thing. Here is this same argument with a single word replaced:

If Muslims are right in their beliefs, then it is very likely that the books being propagated are a very reasonable accounting of what transpired, even if flawed by human hands.

As to your beliefs about the accounts, why would Christians care that you don't believe pieces? You clearly buy none of it.

I don't care if they do. But I do buy some of it. Again, Jesus had some very substantive things to say about compassion. I just don't buy the supernatural mumbo-jumbo. It's hard to find anything redeemable about the Old Testament though.

 

[BigPapaVol]

This doesn't mean a thing. Here is this same argument with a single word replaced:

and that comment would be correct. If they're right, then the book is likely on target. If they're wrong, the books are bunk.

 

[KB5252]

This doesn't mean a thing. Here is this same argument with a single word replaced:






I don't care if they do. But I do buy some of it. Again, Jesus had some very substantive things to say about compassion. I just don't buy the supernatural mumbo-jumbo. It's hard to find anything redeemable about the Old Testament though.

I can certainly understand why. It helps to take into account that these particular people had enemies at every turn and had been persecuted to no end along their journey.

 

[T-TownVol]

Psalm 14:1 - believers, you are debating with a fool

That is not me talking, it is the Bible.

 

[rjd970]

But why would someone who puts there faith in Christ believe He couldn't accurately represent Himself in a book but create the Heavens and earth?

The great thing is we will all find out at some point. Only difference is the vantage point and the temperature...

But it should be looked at like every other rational decision is wieghed. Everybody looks at evidence, weighs pros and cons, and then makes a decision. Buying stocks, cars, deciding on a course of study, etc...are done this way. You are saying with Jesus it is a priori. I have put my faith in Christ. There....now everything else can't be wrong and the Bible must be accurate in every detail. This doesn't make sense in any other area of discourse.

Second, the "wait until we die" argument doesn't make sense to me either. There are a couple of assumptions built into it.

First is the notion that people have not paid a terrible price for religious faith. It seems worth remembering in this context just what sort of costs, great and small, we are incurring on account of religion. Inquisitions, crusades, witch hunts, muslims stuck in 7th century thinking with 21st century weapons.....

Second, it doesn't separate a thing for Christianity. Muslims could use it to support the claim that Jesus was not divine (the Koran states that anyone who believes in the divinity of Jesus will wind up in hell); Buddhists could use it to support the doctrine of karma and rebirth...

 

[rjd970]

Psalm 14:1 - believers, you are debating with a fool

That is not me talking, it is the Bible.

That's good. Because I am not impressed by the Bible in the least. My bet is you're much more interesting and intelligent than a holy book.

 

[droski]

I have put my faith in Christ. There....now everything else can't be wrong and the Bible must be accurate in every detail.

i think you will find very few christian religions that believe that hte bible must be accurate in every detail.

 

[UT IE 95]

I can understand how people don't believe the Bible.

But why would someone who puts there faith in Christ believe He couldn't accurately represent Himself in a book but create the Heavens and earth?

The great thing is we will all find out at some point. Only difference is the vantage point and the temperature...

So you literally believe it's physically hot? Pitchforks, horns, and all huh?

Interestingly enough, the hebrew word for hell is the same as grave. So it was interchanged from the old testament texts where it made sense in the english version. There are several instances of "translator freedoms" from the orginal texts. For what it's worth.

 

[JZVOL]

So you literally believe it's physically hot? Pitchforks, horns, and all huh?

Interestingly enough, the hebrew word for hell is the same as grave. So it was interchanged from the old testament texts where it made sense in the english version. There are several instances of "translator freedoms" from the orginal texts. For what it's worth.

No. It was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

Thanks for the lesson though.

 

[IPorange]

Psalm 14:1 - believers, you are debating with a fool

That is not me talking, it is the Bible.

The hebrew word for fool was "nabal." That was the name of Abigail's husband. It is referring not to atheists, but rather people who choose to ignore God and his authority, seeing him as not watching the hen house or not active, while outwardly he may still claim God.

Just saying, it doesn't apply in this discussion.

 

[T-TownVol]

The hebrew word for fool was "nabal." That was the name of Abigail's husband. It is referring not to atheists, but rather people who choose to ignore God and his authority, seeing him as not watching the hen house or not active, while outwardly he may still claim God.

Just saying, it doesn't apply in this discussion.

since the term "athiest" does not appear in the Bible...I do not get your point, Nabal was a person in the Bible, not the definition of fool as it applies to this story

RJD knows the scriptures and chooses not to believe them or, for that matter, God....I stand behind my statement as it applies to RJD

 

[UT IE 95]

No. It was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

Thanks for the lesson though.

It's hard to tell with you sometimes.

 

[IPorange]

since the term "athiest" does not appear in the Bible...I do not get your point, Nabal was a person in the Bible, not the definition of fool as it applies to this story

He knows the scriptures and chooses not to believe them or, for that matter, God....I stand behind my statement as it applies to him

"Fool" is an English word. The original Hebrew word was "nabal." Someone came along and decided fool was equivalent, but it is only an approximation. The actual meaning in this context is one that knows/believes in God and his authority, yet continues to live disregarding that. We would call it more of hypocrisy, but logically it would be foolish to believe one thing and yet act as if one didn't.

An atheist doesn't believe in God at all and follows that line of reasoning. Therefore it isn't the same thing. It would be the same if an atheist followed the teachings and rituals of Christianity and yet didn't believe in God or his authority at all.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I grew up in the Church of Christ as well. The people I grew up with in church all consider me a heathen now.

This explains why you are so hard core about liberalism.

 

[T-TownVol]

eviyl - "ev eel" is the Hebrew root word for fool...."nabal" was a man that is referred to as a fool in the Bible because he ignored God as you have said, your search gave you an example, not the word
just one of many examples of a fool in the Bible

 

[rjd970]

since the term "athiest" does not appear in the Bible...I do not get your point, Nabal was a person in the Bible, not the definition of fool as it applies to this story

RJD knows the scriptures and chooses not to believe them or, for that matter, God....I stand behind my statement as it applies to RJD

At the risk of sounding insensitive (I know, I am not very good at this), and for what it is worth, I don't even think the word "atheist" should exist. We don't, afterall, have a name for somebody that doesn't believe in astrology, or alchemy. We don't have a word for somebody who doesn't believe in all the other dead Gods that have passed into history. We don't call Muslims "non-Christians". Think about all the reasons you find Islam to be preposterous and there will be significant overlap with the reasons I find your religion equally unbelievable. In fact, if you are Christian then you are a "Hindu Atheist". I simply take it one God more than 90% of the world does.

"Atheism", whatever anybody may think it is, is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. I think it is an unwarranted label with an unecessary stigma attached to it.

 

[Headed For Home]

rjd it certainly seems that you have suffered some type of major disappointment in your life. I am sorry that you have experienced this. I understand that many times God does not let things work out the way we think He should.

However, despite your denial of God's existence, He still loves you. When the time comes that you are willing to accept His grace, He will welcome you. I pray that you come to accept Him while you have the opportunity.

 

[utvolpj]

rjd it certainly seems that you have suffered some type of major disappointment in your life. I am sorry that you have experienced this. I understand that many times God does not let things work out the way we think He should.

and there it is again. I will never understand why religious people just can't wrap their heads around the fact someone can be completely happy with their life and not believe in God. It always has to be explained by some "traumatic event" that prevents them from believing.

 

[Headed For Home]

That's probably because most of the time a "traumatic event" is exactly the reason why there is a lack of faith in their lives. It sounds like some huge event that everyone recognizes, but it could easily be something the rest of the world would hardly notice. Somehow there was a disappointment that simply destroyed their faith.

 

[rjd970]

That's probably because most of the time a "traumatic event" is exactly the reason why there is a lack of faith in their lives. It sounds like some huge event that everyone recognizes, but it could easily be something the rest of the world would hardly notice. Somehow there was a disappointment that simply destroyed their faith.

For the record, there was no "traumatic event" that destroyed my faith. I don't like talking about too much of myself on here, but since this has been brought up a number of times, and is a common misconception about most of us infidels, it is worth addressing. I was not abused, I was not forced to go to Church, and I was not hurt in any overt physical or emotional way. I actually enjoyed the fellowship.

I went to Church every Sunday growing up and in early adulthood. I went to Sunday school. I went to nightly seminary classes. I fervently defended my faith. At one point, I actually seriously considered being a minister. I genuinely miss the fellowship of worship sometimes, but have made the conscious decision that it is not worth the emotional torment of living a lie.

Then I actually read the Bible from cover to cover. Took it for what it was worth. I studied other religions. I have actually read the Qu'ran. And I found the whole idea of personal faith, organized religion, and group think to be a farce and a racket.

Life is much more interesting and fulfilling when approached in an intellectually honest way. Contrary to what you may believe, I still have very fulfilling spiritual experiences. Everytime I look at my son, listen to certain pieces of music, even when Tennessee beats Florida....I get the same feeling I got while in worship. I just choose not to call these experiences "God" and I take them for what they are: Purely human experiences that most choose to call something completely supernatural and unexplainable.

I'm sorry you can't grasp the idea that somebody can actually reject faith without the aid of some "traumatic event".

 

[JZVOL]

It's hard to tell with you sometimes.

I might be the most sarcastic person around and it does not translate well on a message board.

 

[UT IE 95]

I might be the most sarcastic person around and it does not translate well on a message board.

Trust me - I can appreciate some good sarcasm. :shades: