Bible Topic Thread (merged)

#2,104
#2,104
rjd970 said:
For the record, there was no "traumatic event" that destroyed my faith. I don't like talking about too much of myself on here, but since this has been brought up a number of times, and is a common misconception about most of us infidels, it is worth addressing. I was not abused, I was not forced to go to Church, and I was not hurt in any overt physical or emotional way. I actually enjoyed the fellowship.

I went to Church every Sunday growing up and in early adulthood. I went to Sunday school. I went to nightly seminary classes. I fervently defended my faith. At one point, I actually seriously considered being a minister. I genuinely miss the fellowship of worship sometimes, but have made the conscious decision that it is not worth the emotional torment of living a lie.

Then I actually read the Bible from cover to cover. Took it for what it was worth. I studied other religions. I have actually read the Qu'ran. And I found the whole idea of personal faith, organized religion, and group think to be a farce and a racket.

Life is much more interesting and fulfilling when approached in an intellectually honest way. Contrary to what you may believe, I still have very fulfilling spiritual experiences. Everytime I look at my son, listen to certain pieces of music, even when Tennessee beats Florida....I get the same feeling I got while in worship. I just choose not to call these experiences "God" and I take them for what they are: Purely human experiences that most choose to call something completely supernatural and unexplainable.

I'm sorry you can't grasp the idea that somebody can actually reject faith without the aid of some "traumatic event".
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We are polar opposites, I rejected God/Faith and then searched through every thing you mentioned and found him.

:)
 
#2,105
#2,105
OrangeEmpire said:
We are polar opposites, I rejected God/Faith and then searched through every thing you mentioned and found him.

:)
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I have a similar story. I had an event (actually a series of events) that made me question my faith. I did some research into other religions and it brought me back to my Christian faith.
 
#2,107
#2,107
KB5252 said:
I have a similar story. I had an event (actually a series of events) that made me question my faith. I did some research into other religions and it brought me back to my Christian faith.
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It took me about 6 years to come to a peace, if that makes any sense.

I knew Christianity was not about rules and regulations and God was waiting to punish me after every turn in my life.

It was a miserable existence.
 
#2,108
#2,108
rjd970 said:
At the risk of sounding insensitive (I know, I am not very good at this), and for what it is worth, I don't even think the word "atheist" should exist. We don't, afterall, have a name for somebody that doesn't believe in astrology, or alchemy.

"Atheism", whatever anybody may think it is, is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. I think it is an unwarranted label with an unecessary stigma attached to it.
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One can be "apolitical."

Meaning; "having no interest or involvement in political affairs."

How do you define the stigma that is supposedly attached to the word, "atheist?"

rjd970 said:
I studied other religions. I have actually read the Qu'ran.

What did you think of the Qu'ran??

Have you also read the Hadith??

Have you read the "Avesta?"

(The Magi were most likely Zoroastrian.)

What are some of the other religious texts you have studied?

The Book of the Mormon??

How about philosophical perspectives such as the Tao (the philosophy of the "Way") and the Art of Peace, (the religion that is not a religion.)??

Have you read any of the works of Hieromonk Damascene?

Or how about "He Walked the Americas", (a collection of legend of the Healer from various tribes of Native Americans.)

Do you have any opinion on Asclepius aka Ophiuchus aka the 13th sign of the Zodiac aka the serpent bearer aka the Healer??


And I found the whole idea of personal faith, organized religion, and group think to be a farce and a racket.

Sadly the world has no shortage of charlatans and it can be said that organizations involving men somehow tend to become corrupt although one cannot say that all organizations are indeed corrupt.
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One of my favorite movies is "Lonely are the Brave,"
215px-Lonely_Are_the_Brave_poster.jpg

it was adapted from a book; "The Lonely Cowboy", and the author of that book, Edward Abbey, lives as a hermit and at one time someone sought him out (I think that was Mother Earth News) and did an interview.

One of the answers that he was quoted with was; "I don't trust anything that becomes too big, big corporations, big government, even big churches, because they always become corrupt from within."

Here are some of his quotes;

(One of my favorites:)

“Society is like a stew. If you don't stir it up every once in a while then a layer of scum floats to the top.”

Close second;

“A drink a day keeps the shrink away”

And this ought to get a laugh:

“There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.”

Do you think there is such a thing as good and evil???

At any rate I do and personally I think that a system of belief called "scientific socialism" is the most evil of all belief systems on Earth.
 
#2,109
#2,109
One can be "apolitical."

Meaning; "having no interest or involvement in political affairs."

How do you define the stigma that is supposedly attached to the word, "atheist?"
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One can have no involvement in religious affairs and still believe in God. There is a difference. Why do we feel the need to label someone who doesn't believe in God? Do we need a label for someone that doesn't believe in unicorns, ufo's, Zeus, Thor....or any other thing that is equally unsupported by evidence? No. We don't. Words like "evidence", "Reason", and "Common Sense" suffice just fine when addressing them.

Sam Harris, says it better than I can:

Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. Unfortunately, we live in a world in which the obvious is overlooked as a matter of principle. The obvious must be observed and re-observed and argued for. This is a thankless job. It carries with it an aura of petulance and insensitivity......It is worth noting that no one ever needs to identify himself as a non-astrologer or a non-alchemist. Consequently, we do not have words for people who deny the validity of these pseudo-disciplines. Likewise, atheism is a term that should not even exist. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma. The atheist is merely a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (87% of the population) who claim to never doubt the existence of God should be obliged to present evidence for his existence and, indeed, for his benevolence, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day. Only the atheist appreciates just how uncanny our situation is: Most of us believe in a God that is every bit as specious as the gods of Mount Olympus; no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that such a God exists; and much of what passes for public policy in our country conforms to religious taboos and superstitions appropriate to a medieval theocracy. Our circumstance is abject, indefensible and terrifying. It would be hilarious if the stakes were not so high.
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Have you also read the Hadith??

Have you read the "Avesta?"

(The Magi were most likely Zoroastrian.)

What are some of the other religious texts you have studied?

The Book of the Mormon??
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I have read the Hadith and The Book of Mormon. I actually have extended family members that are Mormon. Mormonism is worse than traditional Christianity because it is Christianity plus some really dumb ideas, IMO. Mormon's believe the garden of eden is in Jackson County, MO. So whatever probability you place on Jesus coming back, it has to be even less that he will do it from his throne in the backwoods of the midwest United States. Of course, there is the crazy type beliefs with temple rituals, magic underwear, 3 Nephites, and re-written histories, etc...that accompanies all religions.

Traditional Hadiths is where the 72 virgins belief comes from, believe it or not, not from the Qu'ran. It details the life and teaching of Muhammed, including his military conquests and young bride. The only thing I have gathered from it is he was nothing more than an illiterate epileptic pedophile who showed a capability for leadership. The Qu'ran is supposedly very elegant when read in Arabic. I wouldn't know, and I wasn't all that impressed with it anyway.

At any rate I do and personally I think that a system of belief called "scientific socialism" is the most evil of all belief systems on Earth.
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What exactly do you consider that to be? I suspect I hear a Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot argument lurking here somewhere.




Nevertheless, I have given up trying to understand every single system of belief and weighing one over another. From a philosophical standpoint, and using Christianity as a case study, this is an excellent article explaning why none of it is even necessary in the first place:

Butterflies and Wheels Article

A nice summary, in case you don't want to read it all:

Theologians can continue to write endless books and articles using dense and 'learned' tones, but there really is no need for atheists to read them as they all boil down to the same ultimate beliefs, beliefs that atheists, quite rightly in my view, reject on the basis that they do not have intellectual or moral credibility.
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#2,110
#2,110
rjd970 said:
Sam Harris, says it better than I can:
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Sam missed the boat in his first sentence when he called it "refusal to deny the obvious." There is nothing correct about that comment. The fact that he continues in that vein should tell you that he isn't remotely objective in his approach to his atheism.
 
#2,111
#2,111
BigPapaVol said:
Sam missed the boat in his first sentence when he called it "refusal to deny the obvious." There is nothing correct about that comment. The fact that he continues in that vein should tell you that he isn't remotely objective in his approach to his atheism.
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You obviously haven't read any of his writings.

...and so what if he isn't? Nobody on the other side is remotely objective either. It still doesn't take away from answering the question gsvol asked.
 
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#2,116
#2,116
rjd970 said:
You obviously haven't read any of his writings.

...and so what if he isn't? Nobody on the other side is remotely objective either. It still doesn't take away from answering the question gsvol asked.
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I haven't read him and won't. That first sentence was plenty for me to know that he believes himself intellectually superior and more honest than everyone else.

Why do I need his opinion?
 
#2,117
#2,117
rjd970 said:
Which one? And why?
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A blade of grass, a piece of dirt, a finger print, a drop of rain, an eye lash, a single hair, the ability to think, love, darkness, light, feet, hands, arms, legs, a brain, a tree, a flower, a dog, water, my wife, stars, the moon, the sun, a rock and on and on.
 
#2,119
#2,119
JZVOL said:
A blade of grass, a piece of dirt, a finger print, a drop of rain, an eye lash, a single hair, the ability to think, love, darkness, light, feet, hands, arms, legs, a brain, a tree, a flower, a dog, water, my wife, stars, the moon, the sun, a rock and on and on.
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Darwin and a class on evolutionary psychology takes all the mystery out of that.
 
#2,121
#2,121
BigPapaVol said:
I haven't read him and won't. That first sentence was plenty for me to know that he believes himself intellectually superior and more honest than everyone else.

Why do I need his opinion?
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Well I guess if you're going to base your entire opinion on him on a single sentence then you don't need his opinion.
 
#2,122
#2,122
rjd970 said:
Because the conditions were just right for life as we know it to evolve on this planet.
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how did that happen? and why planets? why did evolution start? how did the planet get here? how did the universe get here? there must have been something before the universe? how did that something get here? is this universe simply a tiny dot in another super universe?
 
#2,123
#2,123
rjd970 said:
Well I guess if you're going to base your entire opinion on him on a single sentence then you don't need his opinion.
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that sentence started his commentary and was the basis of those comments. You said that commentary summed it up better than you can. I assumed that means you somehow buy what he says and believed it representative of his point of view.
 
#2,125
#2,125
rjd970 said:
Why does it matter?

Because the conditions were just right for life as we know it to evolve on this planet.
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You throw out all these quotes from "intellectuals" and then this statement which you don't think sounds absurd?
 
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