Bible Topic Thread (merged)

[T-TownVol]

I've been a member of the Church if Christ my whole life and have rarely come across people that espouse that belief.

May I ask you what you believe is the moment of salvation

 

[volinbham]

Do you know the origin of the X in Xmas?

I believe it comes from the Xists - as told in the Church of the SubGenius...

THE CONSPIRACY!

The idea that America (or any country) values individuality as the highest ideal is a myth. Perhaps in simpler times it was true, but no MODERN industrial society can really afford a population of unpredictables. This is not surprising -- the long history of our cult's persecution by the Conspiracy goes back for generations untold, and indeed there are signs of their hoary repression of prehuman SubGenii dating from BEFORE "man's" appearance on Earth. All of civilization's painful and misguided climb up from the primeval slime, and its subsequent loss of Slack AND OF ANY CLASS AT ALL, has been indelibly marked, nay, ENTIRELY MOTIVATED, by the aeons- bridging conflict between the Conspiracy's mindlessly chickenshit Witless Principals and the Jehovah-spawned, grandiose depravity of the superior yet ethnically all-encompassing race of latent SubGeniuses. (You should know this -- YOU WERE/WILL BE THERE IN THE BEFORELIFE!) The fact that only in recent years has "our kind" begun to recognize our own sovereignty demonstrates both how vicious have been Their efforts at further denying us Slack and yet now near is our race to TRIUMPH.
All this is ULTIMATE PROOF that Jehovah 1 has not only promoted the SubGenius as His Special Tool, but has SIMULTANEOUSLY pulled the strings which make THEM endarken Themselves with their hereditary ignorance AND US with their cubistic witch-hunt superstitions. His "reason" for this two-faced obedience-school programming, this fissioning of history into binary "war equations," unfortunately, or, perhaps, thankfully, remains at total mystery.

But Jehovah 1 is not alone in His cosmic meddling, for Earth has been periodically visited for thousands of years by BENEVOLENT ALIENS of such technical and psychic superiority that their powers, while no match for Jehovah's, are nonetheless nothing short of "Godlike" to we roaches, the Human Race. These BENIGN SPACE MONSTERS, the "X-ists," have walked among us throughout history, investigating and sometimes resisting the subatomically-pervading presence of Jehovah 1. We are not, then, alone in our battle/subservience. The rise and "fall" of Atlantis, the erection of the Pyramids and other monuments which NO SLOPEHEADS ALONE COULD BUILD, the miracles of the Old Testament, all these and more are events so inextricably interwoven with the invisible background war between Jehovah and the Xists that all the "Ancient Astronaut" fossils in the world furnish only the barest of clues. (The movie rights ALONE to these gut-splitting tales of reincarnancient history are worth MILLIONS!) Yea, it has even been suggested that the Carpenter of Nazareth himself, God Jr., Jesus 'What, Me Worry?' Christ, was in actuality a 'space detective' of the Xists, walking the Earth in human form with the mission of extricating us from the Monster God's grip.

The black shadow of the Conspiracy, unfortunately, has seen to it that even His teachings were diluted and distorted until human attempts to follow them were fully as misguided as the carving of the heads of Easter Island or the 'runways' of Nazca.

And so the true history of the SubGenius has been kept secret from Man. For Jehovah 1 is to the Xists and Us what a hungry fisherman is to a prize fish and his favorite pet worm - the last in the can. How many million other races were used before us in these ghastly galactic water-sports?

The SubGenius Manifesto

Hope this clears it up :thumbsup:

 

[emainvol]

I've been a member of the Church if Christ my whole life and have rarely come across people that espouse that belief.

You have some rather progressive fellow members then.

 

[T-TownVol]

You have some rather progressive fellow members then.

Or he has not dug deep enough to know the true beliefs of the c of C

That is why I asked him the salvation question

 

[volfanbill]

fwiw, I went to a Church of Christ school and did most of my Biblical studies there. I don't think anyone I ever came across thinks I'm going to Hell because I don't fully support the Church of Christ beliefs.

Just to clarify, I do believe that the moment you accept Jesus as your Savior, you become saved. being baptized is the next step, but it is not mandatory for complete salvation.

 

[T-TownVol]

fwiw, I went to a Church of Christ school and did most of my Biblical studies there. I don't think anyone I ever came across thinks I'm going to Hell because I don't fully support the Church of Christ beliefs.

Just to clarify, I do believe that the moment you accept Jesus as your Savior, you become saved. being baptized is the next step, but it is not mandatory for complete salvation.

You sir are correct about salvation, but I venture to guess that you did not learn that at the c of C

as for the "going to hell" question, have you ever asked any one in leadership, of a c of C, that question. I went to THE c of C University, and it is most certainly taught there.

 

[Vol Mania 21]

i have a friend that goes to a c of c, and he said that you can lose your salvation. i grew up in a baptist church where we were taught that once saved always saved.

 

[T-TownVol]

i have a friend that goes to a c of c, and he said that you can lose your salvation. i grew up in a baptist church where we were taught that once saved always saved.

the only way to lose it is to denounce it and God
c of C believes that salvation is earned, therefore, it can be unearned or lost

 

[volfanbill]

I grew up mixing between southern baptist and methodist. Saved and baptized by southern baptist, but I did most of my learning in a methodist church and then grew tremendously through Milligan (c of c school). Also attended a handful of different c of c churches during that time and since. So you know, I graduated in 2004.

I have said all that to say this. At this stage in Christianity, denominations are worthless in general. Individual churches or at least regional church organizations are so divided amongst each other that not even denominations are united. It's pathetic. I attend the church of the Holy Bible. As I said early in this thread, I don't think it is a perfect book, but is the best option. Read it yourself. Buy a couple different study versions and guides. Read the whole book two or three times and form your own opinions. The fact that the church as a whole is this divided proves that there is no reason to trust other opinions. For example, although I believe you don't have to be baptized to be saved, I do firmly believe your heart can grow so cold and unbelieving that you renounce your own salvation.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[T-TownVol]

Bill,
You are on the right path my man. Keep the faith and continue to read and study the scriptures. Denominations/religion is man made, the Church is not.

 

[TheDeeble]

Or he has not dug deep enough to know the true beliefs of the c of C

That is why I asked him the salvation question

I would have said when you confess your belief in Jesus as your savior and are baptized. Chalk it up to my lack of knowledge on other "denominations", but I didn't think that was unique to the Church of Christ.

And no, I've probably not dug to the very depths of C of C beliefs. There was time from about 2001 till just recently that I quit attending for reasons similiar to what Bill said. So many denominations and I'd bet that none of them have it 100% right. Some may have more wrong that right. I thought "why bother? I believe in God and that Jesus is my savior and I'll try to live my life according to what I think he wants and what the Bible says. Not what a denomination says."

Although a few months back I did return to attending church. I really felt like I was lacking fellowship and missed it. I do believe that surrounding yourself with other Christians helps you grow and remain strong. I do want to study/worship and I can learn a lot from fellow Christians. Church is a good place to do that. C of C is what I've always attended. It's where I'm comfortable

Although I'm not the kind of person that's going to be judgemental and think we have it all right and everyone else is wrong and they're all going to hell. I'm aware that that attitude does exist, but it's something I don't share.

Since we have a scholar here who is knowledgeable I guess(probably moreso than I), and I am interested to know, what is the reason that C of C members think they're saved while everyone else is not? When I decided to return to church I asked my sister in Texas(lifelong C of C member and still is today) what she and her husband looked for in a church. One of the things she said was she "doesn't like a church where people talk as if only church of Christ people are the only true Christians, or the only ones going to heaven and everyone else is mistaken and going to hell. Just a personal thing, I guess"

I knew it existed but never really knew that it was that popular.

 

[volfanbill]

Bill,
You are on the right path my man. Keep the faith and continue to read and study the scriptures. Denominations/religion is man made, the Church is not.

the fact that i made such a long post from my BB with only one spelling error is a miracle itself.

I hope people don't read that and think that I am saying do not attend church though. Church is a great time for fellowship and learning that can't be replaced by anything else. Just understand that church isn't a building and that you can have different opinions and still learn very valuable things from preachers on your Christian walk.

Basically don't worry about being a Lutheran, a Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Catholic, etc. Just be a Christian. Follow your beliefs for your faith.

 

[volinbham]

Did anyone see the interview with W on ABC about faith and religion?

He implied that God is revealed through many religions and if I heard him right, he doesn't believe non-Christians are damned.

I found that interesting on two levels - one, it is what I believe also and two, it flies in the face of what he's been criticized for as a result of being an "evangelical".

 

[orangeblooded2]

Regarding W and the interview....

Free will.

It is the great denominator for all perceptions of faith and religion.It is the only thing untouched by god,although instilled by him,even he will not interfere with it.Salvation is earned through it.Grace is deferred by
it.

Perception of free will allows for believes.
Believes allow for perception of free will.

 

[gsvol]

Man

Sexist!!

I grew up in the Church of Christ as well. The people I grew up with in church all consider me a heathen now.

Me too!!

Popular theory maintains that it has something to do with the Greek spelling of Christ....xpistos (english p being rho). Hopefully you have a less conventional explanation. I always enjoy those!

Not Greek but close, cyrillic.

(transliterated) Khristos Voskreshnie (or something like that) meant "Christ is risen" in the Slavic languages and the first two letters of those words "kha veh" were secret code words to early Christians in eastern Europe, one would say; "Kha" and if someone answered "veh" then you knew you were talking to another believer.

As in western Europe under Roman rule one would draw a curved horizontal line in the dirt and if someone drew another curved line making the sign of the fish, then you knew you were in the presence of a follower of Jesus but in eastern Europe the letter "kha" which looked sort of like )( was used, still there was the same meaning, the curved lines were vertical instead, indicating the first letter of the word "Christ."

What you say indeed may have started in Greece or with Greek speaking people and there were many in some of the areas in which Jesus taught.

At any rate what some people have said in the past about Christmas cards that said; "Merry Xmas" wasn't an attempt to take Christ out of Christmas but a manifestation of another aspect of Christianity.

Especially when they rhyme.

Let's see, what rhymes with Christmas time,
parsley, sage, roast turkey and cranberry sauce??

 

[BigPapaVol]

Did anyone see the interview with W on ABC about faith and religion?

He implied that God is revealed through many religions and if I heard him right, he doesn't believe non-Christians are damned.

I found that interesting on two levels - one, it is what I believe also and two, it flies in the face of what he's been criticized for as a result of being an "evangelical".

So you and W are peas in a pod. Sweet.

 

[gsvol]

One thing about GS. He convinces me that the art of storytelling is not dead.

Thankee kindly.

I would tell one right now but it's almost time for the Titans game. Houston we have a problem.

Agreed, but this is a bad forum for it.

We're discussing religion here and the forum plainly says politics. Whatupwidat???

You tell lots of stories too, but they're all real short and convey no meaning, in radio land we call that static.

This board is Cliff's paradise!

Methinks Cliff was into word association.

Exactly and well done.

Done what???

You should worry about bigmama and forget about me.

I believe it comes from the Xists - as told in the Church of the SubGenius...



The SubGenius Manifesto

Hope this clears it up :thumbsup:

:no:

You should really move on up to Nashville, I think Birmingham is finally getting to you.

You may notice Bob had in on in '61
but by '73 he was a big mess.

What happened was that he volunteered for government experiments and thought sandoz was a nap on the beach.

Bob was just a hologram anyway.

BTW, everytime I see your avatar I can't help but think of:

Your Mama don't dance and your Daddy don't rock and roll
Your Mama don't dance and your Daddy don't rock and roll

But when evening comes around and it's time to hit the town
Where do you go--You gotta rock it

The old folks say that you gotta end your date by ten
But if you're out on a date don't you bring her home late cause it's a sin

You know there's no excuse, you know you're gonna lose, you never win
I'll say it again

And it's all because

Your Mama don't dance and your Daddy don't rock and roll
Your Mama don't dance and your Daddy don't rock and roll

But when evening comes around and it's time to hit the town
Where do you go--You gotta rock it

Everyone gather round let me tell you all about it
You see I pulled into a drive-in and I found a place to park
We hopped into the backseat where it's always nice and dark
We're just about to move thinkin' "Bret, this is a breeze"
There's a light in my eye and a guy says "Out of the car, long hair!"


Oowee--you're coming with me
Said the local police

Your Mama don't dance and your Daddy don't rock and roll
Your Mama don't dance and your Daddy don't rock and roll

But when evening comes around and it's time to hit the town
Where do you go

Play me a little C.C.

Your Mama don't dance and your Daddy don't rock and roll

It just ain't cool and it ain't about to stop
Your Mama don't dance and your Daddy don't rock
Your Mama don't dance no
You just gotta let 'em know

Your Mama don't dance and your Daddy don't rock and roll
Ah yeah...

 

[T-TownVol]

I would have said when you confess your belief in Jesus as your savior and are baptized. Chalk it up to my lack of knowledge on other "denominations", but I didn't think that was unique to the Church of Christ.

And no, I've probably not dug to the very depths of C of C beliefs. There was time from about 2001 till just recently that I quit attending for reasons similiar to what Bill said. So many denominations and I'd bet that none of them have it 100% right. Some may have more wrong that right. I thought "why bother? I believe in God and that Jesus is my savior and I'll try to live my life according to what I think he wants and what the Bible says. Not what a denomination says."

Although a few months back I did return to attending church. I really felt like I was lacking fellowship and missed it. I do believe that surrounding yourself with other Christians helps you grow and remain strong. I do want to study/worship and I can learn a lot from fellow Christians. Church is a good place to do that. C of C is what I've always attended. It's where I'm comfortable

Although I'm not the kind of person that's going to be judgemental and think we have it all right and everyone else is wrong and they're all going to hell. I'm aware that that attitude does exist, but it's something I don't share.

Since we have a scholar here who is knowledgeable I guess(probably moreso than I), and I am interested to know, what is the reason that C of C members think they're saved while everyone else is not? When I decided to return to church I asked my sister in Texas(lifelong C of C member and still is today) what she and her husband looked for in a church. One of the things she said was she "doesn't like a church where people talk as if only church of Christ people are the only true Christians, or the only ones going to heaven and everyone else is mistaken and going to hell. Just a personal thing, I guess"

I knew it existed but never really knew that it was that popular.

those three little words are the tell tell of a c of C upbringing....baptism is an outward expression of your faith and NOT a step to salvation

your sister is very wise to believe the way she does about the Church

congratulations on getting back in a Church

 

[T-TownVol]

the fact that i made such a long post from my BB with only one spelling error is a miracle itself.

I hope people don't read that and think that I am saying do not attend church though. Church is a great time for fellowship and learning that can't be replaced by anything else. Just understand that church isn't a building and that you can have different opinions and still learn very valuable things from preachers on your Christian walk.

Basically don't worry about being a Lutheran, a Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Catholic, etc. Just be a Christian. Follow your beliefs for your faith.

I did not take it that way. Excellent posts!

 

[volfanbill]

those three little words are the tell tell of a c of C upbringing....baptism is an outward expression of your faith and NOT a step to salvation

your sister is very wise to believe the way she does about the Church

congratulations on getting back in a Church

I'm not really a huge fan of how matter of fact you are throwing your opinion, so I'm just going to add that a lot of the c of c baptismal argument makes sense. I feel that being baptized is the next step as you go out to spread the word, but it is not necessary to receive salvation. While that is my view, I can't prove that the c of c is wrong. The whole John the Baptist story seems a little murky on the subject.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[T-TownVol]

Sorry for my matter of fact opinions. I used to quote scripture to back up my statements, but I was told that I was "preaching" too much, for a VN forum, so I stopped.
I spent over 20 years in the c of C and I am the son of an elder. Went to Lipscomb and studied from the leaders of most of the largest c of C's in middle TN.
if you want scriptures to back up any thing I have said, please pm me.
I will say that the "under 50" leadership in the c of C seems to be following the scriptures and not being so exclusive of non members.

 

[KB5252]

Sorry for my matter of fact opinions. I used to quote scripture to back up my statements, but I was told that I was "preaching" too much, for a VN forum, so I stopped.
I spent over 20 years in the c of C and I am the son of an elder. Went to Lipscomb and studied from the leaders of most of the largest c of C's in middle TN.
if you want scriptures to back up any thing I have said, please pm me.
I will say that the "under 50" leadership in the c of C seems to be following the scriptures and not being so exclusive of non members.

Did you go to Lipscomb Elementary? If so what year?

 

[rjd970]

He implied that God is revealed through many religions and if I heard him right, he doesn't believe non-Christians are damned.

I found that interesting on two levels - one, it is what I believe also and two, it flies in the face of what he's been criticized for as a result of being an "evangelical".

So would this mean you believe somebody like me, who is a loving husband and father, donates regularly to charity, is very moral (by christian standards)....basically "Christian" in almost every persona....but doesn't believe in a God of anykind, and thinks the Bible is a farce...would be damned?

Not that it really matters to me, just wondering how your thought process is going about the justification. It would seem at some point a line needs to be drawn. Christians believe Jesus is the one and only way to salvation. Muslims don't. That leaves about as much room for compromise as a coin toss.

 

[Vol Mania 21]

well politicians aren't going to say that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. if i'm not mistaken Hillary and Obama both said that there are many ways to heaven

 

[KB5252]

So would this mean you believe somebody like me, who is a loving husband and father, donates regularly to charity, is very moral (by christian standards)....basically "Christian" in almost every persona....but doesn't believe in a God of anykind, and thinks the Bible is a farce...would be damned?

Not that it really matters to me, just wondering how your thought process is going about the justification. It would seem at some point a line needs to be drawn. Christians believe Jesus is the one and only way to salvation. Muslims don't. That leaves about as much room for compromise as a coin toss.

Anyone that claims to know where that line is is just fooling themselves. I believe but I know there are many who do not but live decent and moral lives. In my way of thinking there should be a place in heaven for them. In the end though it isn't up to me, all i can do is live my life the best i can and leave all of the rest to God.