Bible Topic Thread (merged)

#2,153
#2,153
rjd970 said:
Then you must explain where the supernatural "something" came from. It is, afterall, "something" and your saying it can't come from nothing.
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why? nobody owes you anything. He's simply making the point that your intellectual haughtiness looks absurd because your answer is equally hollow, or even moreso.
 
#2,154
#2,154
rjd970 said:
Then you must explain where the supernatural "something" came from. It is, afterall, "something" and your saying it can't come from nothing.
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If it is "supernatural" it is contrary to natural law, thereby remains unconfined.
 
#2,155
#2,155
rjd970 said:
No, it doesn't. This is where the magic of large numbers plays in.

Given the incomprehendable size of the universe, if the chances of all those happening in concert are one in a billion, or even one in a million billion, this same scenario could have happend tens of thousands of other times and other places, not including life arising in other ways than how we know it.
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I see an intelligent design in this whole process that allowed this to be possible, I understand that you may not but just from what we can tell from the study of our neighboring stars we can see this place is pretty special. Our planet seems to be the right size, spins at the right rate etc.
 
#2,156
#2,156
rjd970 said:
So would this mean you believe somebody like me, who is a loving husband and father, donates regularly to charity, is very moral (by christian standards)....basically "Christian" in almost every persona....but doesn't believe in a God of anykind, and thinks the Bible is a farce...would be damned?

Not that it really matters to me, just wondering how your thought process is going about the justification. It would seem at some point a line needs to be drawn. Christians believe Jesus is the one and only way to salvation. Muslims don't. That leaves about as much room for compromise as a coin toss.
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To answer your question - yes, I would believe that about someone like you.

There is no conflict on these issues from my perspective.
 
#2,157
#2,157
gsvol said:
Part an parcel in reply:



'atheist' is defined as; "One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods."

What is your problem with that definition?
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Nothing. I just don't think the word itself is needed.





gsvol said:
I pretty much agree about the false prophet Muhammed.
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Of course you do, because that dogma doesn't agree with yours. Jesus rising from the dead is just about as reasonable to believe as that of Muhammed rising to heaven on a winged horse.

gsvol said:
I surmise you are skeptical about the return of Jesus? How do you define the word "religion?"
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To say the least. Dictionary.com


gsvol said:
Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot (among others) had something in common, what was that?? Their socialist religion perhaps?? Not about what I had to say about that though, but a pretty good guess.
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It wasn't so much there socialist religion as it was unfounded beleifs in political, social, and racial idealouges. The "socialist religion", or whatever, was a sympton, not the cause of their idealouges.
 
#2,158
#2,158
rjd970 said:
At the risk of sounding insensitive (I know, I am not very good at this), and for what it is worth, I don't even think the word "atheist" should exist. We don't, afterall, have a name for somebody that doesn't believe in astrology, or alchemy. We don't have a word for somebody who doesn't believe in all the other dead Gods that have passed into history. We don't call Muslims "non-Christians". Think about all the reasons you find Islam to be preposterous and there will be significant overlap with the reasons I find your religion equally unbelievable. In fact, if you are Christian then you are a "Hindu Atheist". I simply take it one God more than 90% of the world does.

"Atheism", whatever anybody may think it is, is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. I think it is an unwarranted label with an unecessary stigma attached to it.
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I've made this comment already but just to clarify my view.

Since atheism (as you've espoused it) makes a specific belief that there is no "God" - it is a belief system that is not supported by direct proof to the contrary. The lack of proof that there is a God is not the same as proof there is not. As a result, the above argument is tautological since it is based on your beginning belief system that since there is no God, not believing in one should be a natural state. The underlying "fact" of the argument is not a fact at all but a belief that has not been empirically verified.
 
#2,159
#2,159
BigPapaVol said:
why? nobody owes you anything. He's simply making the point that your intellectual haughtiness looks absurd because your answer is equally hollow, or even moreso.
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"Something can't come from nothing, except my 'God'".

"Something can't come from nothing, except the universe and how we know it".




...."I don't have to explain anything".
 
#2,160
#2,160
volinbham said:
I've made this comment already but just to clarify my view.

Since atheism (as you've espoused it) makes a specific belief that there is no "God" - it is a belief system that is not supported by direct proof to the contrary. The lack of proof that there is a God is not the same as proof there is not. As a result, the above argument is tautological since it is based on your beginning belief system that since there is no God, not believing in one should be a natural state. The underlying "fact" of the argument is not a fact at all but a belief that has not been empirically verified.
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Again, and again, and again....

I don't see any good reason to believe in God. Anything is possible, even unicorns. I'm interested in reasons more than the actual belief itself.
 
#2,161
#2,161
rjd970 said:
"Something can't come from nothing, except my 'God'".

"Something can't come from nothing, except the universe and how we know it".




...."I don't have to explain anything".
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The word "my" personalizes the argument don't you think. I am much more comfortable with "a".

It is hard to imagine something coming out of nothing without some supernatural occurence....is it not? Something that our physical laws cannot explain perhaps?
 
#2,162
#2,162
volinbham said:
To answer your question - yes, I would believe that about someone like you.

There is no conflict on these issues from my perspective.
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Again, not that I care or that it matters. It's nice that you would admit that though instead of being politically correct about it.
 
#2,163
#2,163
Lexvol said:
The word "my" personalizes the argument don't you think. I am much more comfortable with "a".

It is hard to imagine something coming out of nothing without some supernatural occurence....is it not? Something that our physical laws cannot explain perhaps?
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I agree that it is hard to imagine.
 
#2,164
#2,164
rjd970 said:
Again, and again, and again....

I don't see any good reason to believe in God. Anything is possible, even unicorns. I'm interested in reasons more than the actual belief itself.
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Philosophic Anthropology? Sociology?

If you are just pissed off at Christians, I would say I hope your at the front of the line.....for it is a long one.
 
#2,165
#2,165
rjd970 said:
Again, and again, and again....

I don't see any good reason to believe in God. Anything is possible, even unicorns. I'm interested in reasons more than the actual belief itself.
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Regardless - the argument that the term "atheist" shouldn't be used is not a valid argument as presented.

Your comments reveal the crux of the issue through the use "I" and "I'm". Nothing wrong with believing as you do but recognize it is a belief and not a fact. It is not an intellectually superior belief it is simply a different belief.
 
#2,166
#2,166
Lexvol said:
Philosophic Anthropology? Sociology?

If you are just pissed off at Christians, I would say I hope your at the front of the line.....for it is a long one.
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I'm not pissed at anyone. This is stimulating conversation. Christians are just fine by me.
 
#2,168
#2,168
I would like to commend you guys on keeping the post well thought and not reverting to personal shots. (unless I missed something)

If only all debates could go that way...
 
#2,171
#2,171
rjd970 said:
No, it doesn't. This is where the magic of large numbers plays in.

Given the incomprehendable size of the universe, if the chances of all those happening in concert are one in a billion, or even one in a million billion, this same scenario could have happend tens of thousands of other times and other places, not including life arising in other ways than how we know it.
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Prove it.
 
#2,173
#2,173
JZVOL said:
Prove it.
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Geez, this is just getting silly now. I said it was possible and not all that unreasonable to conclude that just because something is rare, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. After all, we are all here by one means or another.
 
#2,174
#2,174
rjd970 said:
Geez, this is just getting silly now. I said it was possible and not all that unreasonable to conclude that just because something is rare, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. After all, we are all here by one means or another.
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Somebody pulled the goalie!
 
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