BIG Trouble with Academic Rate?

#76
#76
coffeevol said:
Ainges Twitter is over flowing with anger regarding this......sounds like he is going to flame tomorrow.
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:rolleyes:

For somebody that like to present himself as "in the know," Ainge doesn't do a great job of looking into all sides of an issue.

The last thing Susan Martin and her academic cronies want is for football players to fail academically. It's all they have on the players and it makes her look bad when they fail, even when she has little to do with it.

If you want to blame people for the APR issues, Blame Kiffin and Dooley for running off players in their transitions and not seeing to it that the guys leaving finished strong academically. Once Dooley was done with a guy, he didn't care if he went to class, which led to a lot of "double negatives" in the APR, meaning a point deducted for leaving and a point deducted for leaving in poor academic standing. Sentimore and Patterson being barely literate and Hunter stopping attending class after the Vandy game didn't help either.

It's also no coincidence that the semester (Fall 2011) that Dooley took over oversight of class checks and grades for football players they had their lowest GPA is anyone's memory.

If Ainge wants to start naming names of people he things failed the players and dragging people through the mud, that's his business. But he should think very carefully before he starts naming people to blame, he's being fed info by people that are as misinformed and agenda-driven as he is at times.
 
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#77
#77
I love the kids that wear Orange, but it's not like Dooley chose the best Student-Athletes to come play at UT...just saying...

I'm not completely putting it all on the kids, because it also comes down to what the Coach does to help them outside of the locker room.
 
#81
#81
For those that don't believe Martin has been undermining athletics at UT - your day is coming. For anyone still believing that Booger has been good for UT athletics - you need your head examined. For anyone thinking that Hart is a straight shooter - you need a lesson on how to discern what is truth and what is a lie. For anyone that believes DiPietro actually works at his job - please provide the evidence because none exists. For anyone that believes that Haslam's and the BOT's have been good for UT athletics over the past decade - I have nothing to offer to assist you. You are too far gone.

Yes - these are well earned shots at those people. There is far more evidence that they need removed from the scene than there is support for their insanity. UT is a land grant university that has turned 180 degrees from its mission to follow the paths of others instead of being a leader in its state per its stated mission.
 
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#83
#83
VQ explanation...everyone exhale.

UT has been very honest in that it has work to be done, but I don't think the Vols will need to score a 956. As I note in the story on the front page and linked atop the board, UT has several measures in place to boost APR aside from simply keeping the current team improving in the classroom. Schools receive bonus points for every player who comes back and graduates, and the Vols have a handful enrolled in summer classes.

Additionally, as noted in the story, UT has begun appealing to the NCAA on several players no longer with the program for extenuating circumstances. This is an area we believe the Vols may not have been diligent enough with in the past, and it likely stems from how long there was no one atop the Thornton Center. It's conceivable, according to multiple folks on campus, that UT could recoup some APR points from players who have left under difficult circumstances as noted and also from those former players back on campus for summer classes working to finish their degrees.

Lastly, they believe they're on pace for a 957-960 the next go around, which would leave them OK in terms of bowl eligibility. The new 930 number is a significant increase from the previous.
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#84
#84
bamawriter said:
The big concern here is that these numbers are a year behind. So UT has to hit a 956 for Dooley's last season. This was never really in Jones' control. That's why these former players coming back to get there degree are so critical.
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Spot on - only thing to add is that the kiffin class will drop off - which is a HUGE drag on APR.
 
#87
#87
VOLracerx said:
Spot on - only thing to add is that the kiffin class will drop off - which is a HUGE drag on APR.
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Actually, it's a four year rolling score, so it's Fulmer's last year (928) that will drop off. The 3 scores that will count toward next year are:

Kiffin's lone year: 921
Dooley's first: 934
Dooley's second: 909

Which means that Dooley's last year (including this Spring under Jones) has to be a 956 or higher to acheive a four year score of 930.
 
#88
#88
According to Ainge, the NCAA awarded 13,000 points last year to schools for appeals on players who have left because of hardship. Either death in the family, family health issues, mental issues, substance abuse...ect. He said that UT had not applied for any hardship waivers. He said he could name at least 10 off the top of his head that would qualify the last few years. He also said it was the academic side that had to apply for these waivers.

Again, this is according to Ainge and is what was said on the radio this morning. Some of the numbers may be off cause I'm going by memory.
 
#89
#89
UTFanForLife said:
According to Ainge, the NCAA awarded 13,000 points last year to schools for appeals on players who have left because of hardship. Either death in the family, family health issues, mental issues, substance abuse...ect. He said that UT had not applied for any hardship waivers. He said he could name at least 10 off the top of his head that would qualify the last few years. He also said it was the academic side that had to apply for these waivers.
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I highly doubt that this is true. UT might have dropped the ball the last few years, but there is no way they are going to risk bowl eligibility over paperwork.
 
#90
#90
This is about the 10th article that GVX has wrote about this. What they fail to mention is a lot of the dead weight from Kiffin's class won't be included in the 2014 stats. Nothing to see here.
 
#91
#91
UTFanForLife said:
According to Ainge, the NCAA awarded 13,000 points last year to schools for appeals on players who have left because of hardship. Either death in the family, family health issues, mental issues, substance abuse...ect. He said that UT had not applied for any hardship waivers. He said he could name at least 10 off the top of his head that would qualify the last few years. He also said it was the academic side that had to apply for these waivers.

Again, this is according to Ainge and is what was said on the radio this morning. Some of the numbers may be off cause I'm going by memory.
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Ainge is getting half the story and reporting it as the whole truth. There have been waivers filed. We'll be fine.
 
#92
#92
bamawriter said:
Actually, it's a four year rolling score, so it's Fulmer's last year (928) that will drop off. The 3 scores that will count toward next year are:

Kiffin's lone year: 921
Dooley's first: 934
Dooley's second: 909

Which means that Dooley's last year (including this Spring under Jones) has to be a 956 or higher to acheive a four year score of 930.
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Or get enough 'bonus points' or waivers to get to that number.

I highly doubt that this is true. UT might have dropped the ball the last few years, but there is no way they are going to risk bowl eligibility over paperwork.
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I don't think people are insinuating that it was a paperwork screw up. I think there seems to be a theory that some people on the academic side at UT didn't file the hardships on purpose as some sort of way to stick it to the UTAD.

Who knows. As an alum, the overall inbred politics of that place disappoint me. I know its been like that forever, but damn.
 
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#93
#93
I am sorry but for you all that think that this is because of the coaching changes and stuff are mistaken. This has been a trend for us and for some reason swept under the rug for far too long. Next year when the percentage rises we better fix this or it is gonna be bad. Sad thing is that there are a lot of very studious players on this team with very high grades. Makes you wonder just how bad in the classroom some of these players are. SMH :no::no::no:
 
#94
#94
sanddune50 said:
What they fail to mention is a lot of the dead weight from Kiffin's class won't be included in the 2014 stats.
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Like I pointed out before, that is incorrect. The rolling numbers are a year behind, so 2014's number will be for Kiffin's year and Dooley's three years. Basically the Fall of '09 thru the Summer of '13.
 
#95
#95
DeerPark12 said:
Ainge is getting half the story and reporting it as the whole truth. There have been waivers filed. We'll be fine.
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Somebody asked what he said, that's pretty much the gyst of it. I figure most of what is said is wrong a majority of times.
 
#97
#97
WallyBalls said:
I don't think people are insinuating that it was a paperwork screw up. I think there seems to be a theory that some people on the academic side at UT didn't file the hardships on purpose as some sort of way to stick it to the UTAD.
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People on the "academic side" don't file for hardships. The people at the Thornton Center file for the hardships, and they have done so. Our number would be worse if they hadn't.


bamawriter said:
Like I pointed out before, that is incorrect. The rolling numbers are a year behind, so 2014's number will be for Kiffin's year and Dooley's three years. Basically the Fall of '09 thru the Summer of '13.
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True, but very little of the attrition that has hurt our overall APR score will factor into that fourth year number. The number for 2012-13 is actually on pace to be pretty solid. The team had a decent fall in the classroom, and a better spring. Only one of the players to leave the program since the Kentucky game did so in what the NCAA considers "poor academic standing."

Additionally, 6 players that previously left the program during that period and drove our previous year numbers down are back in school and will help our four-year score. A couple will have degrees in hand by December. There are others that are expected to return to class in the fall.
 
#98
#98
"The NCAA adopted a base-line number of 900 for bowl eligibility for the 2013 football season; the minimum for bowl eligibility in 2014 is 930. The years comprising the Vols' composite of 924 reflect the final year of the Phillip Fulmer era, only year of Lane Kiffin's time on Rocky Top and the first two of Derek Dooley's three years at Tennessee.

Seven players from the Vols' 2012 signing class no longer are with the program, and at least 35 players have signed with Tennessee since 2009 and either not completed their eligibility, been dismissed from the program or never played for the Vols.

Among changes in the past year on Tennessee's campus: Dr. Joe Scogin, hired away from Missouri after Scogin spent a dozen years there and headed up the Tigers' academic support component of the school's Total Person Program, now helms the Thornton Center, which is the central nervous system for student-athletes' academic needs; have reexamined and tweaked the comprehensive class attendance policy; reached out to former players and encouraged their participation in the RAC --- Renewing Academic Commitment --- program; and also petitioned the NCAA to win back some points initially deducted from the Vols' APR score due to players who left the program under extenuating circumstances.

Jones has a strong APR track record as a head coach and also has a bonus structure in his Tennessee contract tied to his team's APR standing. Jones is on track to see his next APR score between 955-960, and according to various reports his 2011 Cincinnati team was the only BCS school to win or share its conference title, win a bowl game and lead the league in APR. In Jones' four full seasons as the only head coach in a program, his teams posted APR numbers of 960, 947, 945 and 957 at Central Michigan and Cincinnati.

Only brought on board this spring, Scogin said he could speak only to the environment that Jones has manifested since he was hired to right UT's football program on Dec. 7, 2012. The team's 2.8 spring GPA --- Jones has previously told VolQuest.com that the goal is a 3.0 --- also included 46 players with at least a 3.0. It was only two years ago that Tennessee registered a 2.08 spring semester football team GPA, part of the reason there is APR work still to be done.

Scogin told VolQuest.com that UT has reached out to between 30 and 40 former players to encourage them to complete their degree requirements and several have enrolled for summer classes; additionally, UT has "gone back to look at every lost point over the last four years to try to identify those opportunities" to appeal to the NCAA."

"We will not be here in this environment again," first-year Tennessee coach Butch Jones emphasized on Tuesday afternoon. "I'm very confident moving forward, and look at (past) results. Our recovery plan is being executed."
 
#99
#99
WallyBalls said:
Or get enough 'bonus points' or waivers to get to that number.




I don't think people are insinuating that it was a paperwork screw up. I think there seems to be a theory that some people on the academic side at UT didn't file the hardships on purpose as some sort of way to stick it to the UTAD.

Who knows. As an alum, the overall inbred politics of that place disappoint me. I know its been like that forever, but damn.
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What idiot comes up with these things?
 
#100
#100
DeerPark12 said:
People on the "academic side" don't file for hardships. The people at the Thornton Center file for the hardships, and they have done so. Our number would be worse if they hadn't.
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Thanks for clearing that up DP.


rockytop9808 said:
What idiot comes up with these things?
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I don't have a clue where it comes from. I think a lot of the more ignorant members of the fanbase need a few bogeymen to hate....so what they percieve to be stuffy, elitist academic types make a good one. I imagine its the same ones that believe people like Hart are just Bama sleeper cells.

I know things aren't perfect at UT and a TON of things can get better, but its foolish to believe that there are internal elements actively trying to bring down the UTAD. I'm sure relationships can be vastly improved, but some of this stuff is just dumb.
 
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