Bill Nye is a godless liberal

#52
#52
emainvol said:
Standing offer, if marcus can use real science and not invoke religion to construct an argument that actually pokes holes in evolutionary theory (since he claims he can do that), I will send him 50 dollars through paypal
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Not Marcus but I will play along. As a disclaimer I am an old Earth creationist but open minded in this area so any new evidence I have not heard would be appreciated. First of all, let me just say that I believe that Science and my religion must match up. I believe my God is the god of the natural and supernatural. For instance, I believe that water will always freeze once it gets below a certain temperature, etc.

There are many scientific discrepancies with evolution that I can think of. This does not necessarily disprove evolution, but you can't really disprove anything anymore with how entrenched people's beliefs are. I will say I think it is ridiculous that anyone believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old. If you believe that, then you cannot believe in the speed of light. If the Earth was only 6,000 years old we could not see objects more than six thousand light years away which we can.

When you attempt to disprove my theories you cannot invoke religion either. I also believe in evolution. I do not believe that evolution started everything, I believe God did, but evolution is on a micro scale everyday. To simply refute this is futile. I will do my best to provide actual scientific questions and not just things like, "Look how complex something is." Ok here I go this may be a little long.

Birds: I have seen where evolution says that birds evolved from reptiles. Reptiles use an in out breathing mechanism like humans have. Birds have a flow through mechanism to breath. Can you imagine how that breathing system just evolved through time? How would that work?

Asexual Reproduction This form of reproduction is far more efficient than sexual reproduction. Some species already do this. If evolution creates more complex and efficient being over time, why don't all species reproduce asexually?

Fossil Records There is a complete lack of evidence between transitional life forms. I am not talking about smaller humans or larger animals of the same species, I am talking about transitional life forms. If that is how we truly evolved from bacteria, to fish, to fish that could walk etc. there would be much more fossil records to show this. If things get perfected and more complex over time why do we still have "bad" bacteria at all? Why wouldn't sickness just devolve out of existence?

Probability When the mathematical laws of probability are applied to the known facts of biology, the odds against the incredible, organized complexity of our biological world evolving through blind chance, plus time, are so astronomical in size that, for all practical purposes, evolution is mathematically impossible.

Human existence You said earlier the "missing link" between ape and human had been found. Why are there no links walking the earth today? If we really did mutate from some form of primate species wouldn't there still be some ancestors of this alive today. Humans are more complex and intelligent than primates. Why would all of the primates not have mutated? Why only a select few?

Matter Can you explain how things like energy at a molecular level began? Where did this energy come from? Was it always there? What was the universe like before this decided to happen? Was it a vacuum? How would a universe without scientific laws operate? How does it become able to support life.

Sorry if i misspelled anything or something doesn't make complete sense. I just tried to throw a couple things together off the top of my head.

:hi:
 
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#54
#54
orangesparkles said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you were educated by the public school system in a Southern state.
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I absolutely was. You wanna bust out your educational chops? You've yet to say anything I'd consider educated and you're dogging my education. Bring it.

Oh, and I believe in a creator and evolution.
 
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#57
#57
BigPapaVol said:
I absolutely was. You wanna bust out your educational chops? You've yet to say anything I'd consider educated and you're dogging my education. Bring it.

Oh, and I believe in a creator and evolution.
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Adam and Eve are gonna be pissed.
 
#60
#60
govols09 said:
Not Marcus but I will play along. As a disclaimer I am an old Earth creationist but open minded in this area so any new evidence I have not heard would be appreciated. First of all, let me just say that I believe that Science and my religion must match up. I believe my God is the god of the natural and supernatural. For instance, I believe that water will always freeze once it gets below a certain temperature, etc.

There are many scientific discrepancies with evolution that I can think of. This does not necessarily disprove evolution, but you can't really disprove anything anymore with how entrenched people's beliefs are. I will say I think it is ridiculous that anyone believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old. If you believe that, then you cannot believe in the speed of light. If the Earth was only 6,000 years old we could not see objects more than six thousand light years away which we can.

When you attempt to disprove my theories you cannot invoke religion either. I also believe in evolution. I do not believe that evolution started everything, I believe God did, but evolution is on a micro scale everyday. To simply refute this is futile. I will do my best to provide actual scientific questions and not just things like, "Look how complex something is." Ok here I go this may be a little long.

Birds: I have seen where evolution says that birds evolved from reptiles. Reptiles use an in out breathing mechanism like humans have. Birds have a flow through mechanism to breath. Can you imagine how that breathing system just evolved through time? How would that work?

Asexual Reproduction This form of reproduction is far more efficient than sexual reproduction. Some species already do this. If evolution creates more complex and efficient being over time, why don't all species reproduce asexually?

Fossil Records There is a complete lack of evidence between transitional life forms. I am not talking about smaller humans or larger animals of the same species, I am talking about transitional life forms. If that is how we truly evolved from bacteria, to fish, to fish that could walk etc. there would be much more fossil records to show this. If things get perfected and more complex over time why do we still have "bad" bacteria at all? Why wouldn't sickness just devolve out of existence?

Probability When the mathematical laws of probability are applied to the known facts of biology, the odds against the incredible, organized complexity of our biological world evolving through blind chance, plus time, are so astronomical in size that, for all practical purposes, evolution is mathematically impossible.

Human existence You said earlier the "missing link" between ape and human had been found. Why are there no links walking the earth today? If we really did mutate from some form of primate species wouldn't there still be some ancestors of this alive today. Humans are more complex and intelligent than primates. Why would all of the primates not have mutated? Why only a select few?

Matter Can you explain how things like energy at a molecular level began? Where did this energy come from? Was it always there? What was the universe like before this decided to happen? Was it a vacuum? How would a universe without scientific laws operate? How does it become able to support life.

Sorry if i misspelled anything or something doesn't make complete sense. I just tried to throw a couple things together off the top of my head.

:hi:
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Your probability statement is wrong. Would like to know how you came to that conclusion.
 
#62
#62
emainvol said:
So was I . I don't understand this. Hog's problem is that he won't do the research, I am sure he is smart enough to navigate the evidence if he is open to it
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I assume Hog is not twelve, but rather closer to thirty. As such, he's had ample time to do something other than blatantly ignore science and act as if it's a radical, fringe belief. Whether there is or is not an almighty creator is currently impossible to prove in the realm of science, but it's laughable to act as if evolution is a farce in the face of rather damning scientific evidence.

I sort of understand because, assuming what I said was correct, he's been ingrained to think and act in such a manner. However, he was ingrained wrong.

BigPapaVol said:
I absolutely was. You wanna bust out your educational chops? You've yet to say anything I'd consider educated and you're dogging my education. Bring it.

Oh, and I believe in a creator and evolution.
Click to expand...

Well, I wasn't speaking with you but... top-flight New England boarding school education. I think I've got this.
 
#63
#63
rjd970 said:
Your probability statement is wrong. Would like to know how you came to that conclusion.
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I read somewhere that is some has a one in 130000000000 chance of happening scientists deem it impossible. For us to be here on this planet situated perfectly for life are worse odds than that IMO. Like I said what I typed probably isn't perfect. I don't like getting in these debates because no one ever changes their stance. I was just replying that there is some evidence that could be contradictory to evolution from cell to complex human over billions of years
 
#64
#64
PKT_VOL said:
I would say it is because the loudest Christians who b*tch about evolution in schools tend to be the same Christians who claim dinosaur bones are a test of faith by God or they build million dollar museums with children riding on the backs of dinosaurs as if they are horses.

It is sad that those Christians who do not fall into that category are perceived as being just as crazy due to the antics of the fervent Christians.
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I went to the Iowa State Fair last weekend and stopped at a booth about creationism. My friend and I picked up the pamphlets, started reading them, and then were almost immediately kicked out of the area when we started laughing and pointing out the almost immediate contradictions that Ken Ham was making. Then, to top it off, the "additional reading material" list in the back were almost all books written by Ken Ham. We are planning a trip to the creationist museum to see how long it takes to get escorted out.
 
#65
#65
govols09 said:
Not Marcus but I will play along. As a disclaimer I am an old Earth creationist but open minded in this area so any new evidence I have not heard would be appreciated. First of all, let me just say that I believe that Science and my religion must match up. I believe my God is the god of the natural and supernatural. For instance, I believe that water will always freeze once it gets below a certain temperature, etc.

There are many scientific discrepancies with evolution that I can think of. This does not necessarily disprove evolution, but you can't really disprove anything anymore with how entrenched people's beliefs are. I will say I think it is ridiculous that anyone believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old. If you believe that, then you cannot believe in the speed of light. If the Earth was only 6,000 years old we could not see objects more than six thousand light years away which we can.

When you attempt to disprove my theories you cannot invoke religion either. I also believe in evolution. I do not believe that evolution started everything, I believe God did, but evolution is on a micro scale everyday. To simply refute this is futile. I will do my best to provide actual scientific questions and not just things like, "Look how complex something is." Ok here I go this may be a little long.

Birds: I have seen where evolution says that birds evolved from reptiles. Reptiles use an in out breathing mechanism like humans have. Birds have a flow through mechanism to breath. Can you imagine how that breathing system just evolved through time? How would that work?

Asexual Reproduction This form of reproduction is far more efficient than sexual reproduction. Some species already do this. If evolution creates more complex and efficient being over time, why don't all species reproduce asexually?

Fossil Records There is a complete lack of evidence between transitional life forms. I am not talking about smaller humans or larger animals of the same species, I am talking about transitional life forms. If that is how we truly evolved from bacteria, to fish, to fish that could walk etc. there would be much more fossil records to show this. If things get perfected and more complex over time why do we still have "bad" bacteria at all? Why wouldn't sickness just devolve out of existence?

Probability When the mathematical laws of probability are applied to the known facts of biology, the odds against the incredible, organized complexity of our biological world evolving through blind chance, plus time, are so astronomical in size that, for all practical purposes, evolution is mathematically impossible.

Human existence You said earlier the "missing link" between ape and human had been found. Why are there no links walking the earth today? If we really did mutate from some form of primate species wouldn't there still be some ancestors of this alive today. Humans are more complex and intelligent than primates. Why would all of the primates not have mutated? Why only a select few?

Matter Can you explain how things like energy at a molecular level began? Where did this energy come from? Was it always there? What was the universe like before this decided to happen? Was it a vacuum? How would a universe without scientific laws operate? How does it become able to support life.

Sorry if i misspelled anything or something doesn't make complete sense. I just tried to throw a couple things together off the top of my head.

:hi:
Click to expand...

I don't really understand the argument? Why would bacteria, an evolving organism, cease to exist with human evolution?

A fundamental misunderstanding by creationist is that evolutionist believe there is some perfect point to evolve to. Some creationist think we have already reached that point and question why evolution has stopped. Both are incorrect. Evolution is still continuing right now and will continue until life on Earth ceases to exist.
 
#66
#66
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I don't really understand the argument? Why would bacteria, an evolving organism, cease to exist with human evolution?

A fundamental misunderstanding by creationist is that evolutionist believe there is some perfect point to evolve to. Some creationist think we have already reached that point and question why evolution has stopped. Both are incorrect. Evolution is still continuing right now and will continue until life on Earth ceases to exist.
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That's fair
 
#69
#69
govols09 said:
I read somewhere that is some has a one in 130000000000 chance of happening scientists deem it impossible. For us to be here on this planet situated perfectly for life are worse odds than that IMO. Like I said what I typed probably isn't perfect. I don't like getting in these debates because no one ever changes their stance. I was just replying that there is some evidence that could be contradictory to evolution from cell to complex human over billions of years
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In your opinion, what are those odds? Remember to account for the age of the earth
 
#70
#70
emainvol said:
In your opinion, what are those odds? Remember to account for the age of the earth
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I honestly have no clue. Like I said, I was just bringing up things off the top of my head. Even you will admit the odds would be extremely low no?
 
#71
#71
orangesparkles said:
Well, I wasn't speaking with you but... top-flight New England boarding school education. I think I've got this.
Click to expand...

no, you don't. Nobody in the farging world gives a shiz about your craphole high school. Gtfo.

Mom and dad loved you a lot.
 
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#72
#72
govols09 said:
There are many scientific discrepancies with evolution that I can think of. This does not necessarily disprove evolution, but you can't really disprove anything anymore with how entrenched people's beliefs are. I will say I think it is ridiculous that anyone believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old. If you believe that, then you cannot believe in the speed of light. If the Earth was only 6,000 years old we could not see objects more than six thousand light years away which we can.

:hi:
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I quit reading after this flawed logic. Even if the earth was only 6,000 years old we could still see objects more than 6,000 light years away if they were older than 6,000 years.
 
#73
#73
govols09 said:
I honestly have no clue. Like I said, I was just bringing up things off the top of my head. Even you will admit the odds would be extremely low no?
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that somewhere in a massive universe over the course of billions of years a planet would exhibit the proper conditions to support life and then over billions of years life would form there? No, I think the odds are pretty good
 
#74
#74
emainvol said:
that somewhere in a massive universe over the course of billions of years a planet would exhibit the proper conditions to support life and then over billions of years life would form there? No, I think the odds are pretty good
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This. Mathematically, the odds greatly favor a planet harboring life. In fact, the odds support many more planets that could sustain life.

While Sagans formula for calculating planets that contain life in our own solar system was flawed (he calculated millions but it was developed in the 70s and much has been learned since then) it wouldn't surprise me if there were millions throughout the universe.
 
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#75
#75
govols09 said:
I read somewhere that is some has a one in 130000000000 chance of happening scientists deem it impossible. For us to be here on this planet situated perfectly for life are worse odds than that IMO. Like I said what I typed probably isn't perfect. I don't like getting in these debates because no one ever changes their stance. I was just replying that there is some evidence that could be contradictory to evolution from cell to complex human over billions of years
Click to expand...

Well, if you are talking about life taking hold, the magic of large numbers says that probability would dictate multiple instances of life happening, given the unfanthomable size of the universe.

If you are talking about evolution producing the variety of life we see today, then your probability you "read somewhere" is wrong when you take into account completely random gene changes when ordered by natural selection.

Regardless, the math and probability are on the side of science, most certainly. The fact that someone uses it as evidence against the science shows a fundamental lack of understanding of said science and makes it difficult to take the rest of your case seriously.
 
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