Billionaires and Roth IRAs: the case for tax reform

#201
#201
NorthDallas40 said:
Good and bad are both subsets of morality or ethics. Just or unjust should be the measure for laws. For me personally I see it as unjust for needlessly penalizing a very small subset of people who were incredibly lucky. This all screams of wealth envy and redistribution
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Certainly right. Fair or unfair (just or unjust) means a law applies to all equally. Whether luck or cunning, what others have legally gained is no harm to me or other citizens.
 
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#202
#202
hog88 said:
Ask yourself this. If you or whoever manages your Roth and were lucky/incredibly good managed to flip your Roth portfolio into $2, $5 million dollars should you be taxed on that gain even though you played by the rules?
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No, I don’t think you should be taxed on the ROTH monies that exceed the hypothetical max we’re discussing. “If” a max we’re adopted, the excess would automatically be treated as a ROTH distribution - no tax bill generated same as any other ROTH distribution.
 
#204
#204
Impossible Girl said:
I come from a long line of CPAs. It’s called hyperbole. Simply meaning that citizens should never half to pay money to have their taxes filed.
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Somebody has to keep track of things. Citizens that have such a simple financial situation that are only drawing a paycheck don’t need to employ a tax preparer. But somebody has to be employed to keep track of what they earned.

What about life insurance proceeds? Annuity income? Capital gains? Stock trading? Selling homes? Selling a business? Drawing Social Security? Drawing unemployment? Drawing retirement? Inheriting securities? Doing business or investing in foreign countries? Everybody’s financial picture is different. What’s wrong with employing a tax preparer? Those with simple returns can get free assistance from the IRS or from volunteers to help them file. Even the tax software companies have free versions of their programs.
 
#209
#209
Impossible Girl said:
I’ve already explained this enough.

I’ll give you an analogy. Let’s say that we make a law that says all cars over $250k don’t have to obey any traffic laws. Is that a good law? No. Has nothing to do with morality. Someone could argue, yes, but any individual could potentially buy a $250k and would enjoy the same thing, so therefore it’s fair. Bull fuggin shat.
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Your analogy is terrible because it illustrates my position better than yours. A car valued at 250k shouldn't get special treatment to avoid traffic laws. A person valued at over 1B shouldn't get special laws to incur tax laws.
 
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#210
#210
Impossible Girl said:
Eliminate ALL loopholes. Lower taxes and stop the non sensical tax code we now have. The only ones that should have to hire a CPA are corporations.
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Ain't. gonna. happen.

The tax code is complicated for a reason.

Impossible Girl said:
Absolutely. Let’s stop covering for billionaires, and for deadbeat do nothings as well.
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See above.
 
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#212
#212
McDad said:
Your analogy is terrible because it illustrates my position better than yours. A car valued at 250k shouldn't get special treatment to avoid traffic laws. A person valued at over 1B shouldn't get special laws to incur tax laws.
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It really does. In both cases the outcome judgement should be neutral and uniform. Yours is.
 
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#213
#213
lawgator1 said:
It's not targeting to have them pay taxes on investment income as anyone else would.
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How was he not paying his fair share by that definition? Did he purchase within a ROTH?

A self directed ROTH IRA is probably the best -dare I say - 'gift' that the government has yet to steal from us. If my wife would only get on board with me in terms of wanting to own rental properties, my ROTH would own a small town right now and I would be cashing checks in Thailand or some such place.

What I hear you saying is that you want to do away with the tax shelter of a ROTH IRA, and imho you can gfy. The government gets enough from me.
 
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#214
#214
Thunder Good-Oil said:
CPAs don’t just do taxes. They audit. They work with information systems. They help average people make investment decisions. They analyze financial statements for businesses. They do bookkeeping. They work for governments.
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iu
 
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#217
#217
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I think that 2 issues are being confused. The back door Roth is really a very small account for most of the ultra wealthy. They are limited on how much they can fund every year… just a few thousand dollars. A bit more for a 401k, but both are immaterial for those with 7 figure incomes.

The other issue is about punishing those very few individuals that have had the most success growing their Roth to substantial amounts. Why should those at the extreme upper limit of investing success be penalized?

Changing the rules is simply pandering to the jealous and envious element. The additional tax revenue that would be generated by taking the Roth returns of the most successful investors wouldn’t have much effect on total taxes collected.

Taxes are supposed to be in place to generate revenue to run the government’s business. Not to punish some and to address social inequality by taking away wealth from the wealthiest.
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Social Security benefits weren’t taxed from 1939-1983. I’m sure this same type debate occurred since only folks with money beyond the SS benefits were taxed. Most folks who have successfully saved for retirement aren’t stupid with their money like our government. Of course we all would like a balanced budget from them but I think we’ve had 1 in the last 20 years so it’s not likely to change. If they grabbed part of “the rich guys” SS, why don’t you think they’ll be coming after part of “the rich guys” retirement accounts?
 
#218
#218
Notions of taxing people who achieve certain levels must be defeated on principle alone. Once you've accepted the premise that government should tax those people above those levels, you've given power for them to eventually set the rates at whatever point it is politically expedient. For every person who thinks the cutoff should be 1B, there can be just as many who think it should be 1M.
 
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#219
#219
Impossible Girl said:
It’s all made sense. You’re just a tool.
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Name calling and labels are a very public way of admitting you cannot support your argument.

Try to do some reading and research. Come back with better points. Then, you won't embarrass yourself by calling others names.
 
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#220
#220
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Somebody has to keep track of things. Citizens that have such a simple financial situation that are only drawing a paycheck don’t need to employ a tax preparer. But somebody has to be employed to keep track of what they earned.

What about life insurance proceeds? Annuity income? Capital gains? Stock trading? Selling homes? Selling a business? Drawing Social Security? Drawing unemployment? Drawing retirement? Inheriting securities? Doing business or investing in foreign countries? Everybody’s financial picture is different. What’s wrong with employing a tax preparer? Those with simple returns can get free assistance from the IRS or from volunteers to help them file. Even the tax software companies have free versions of their programs.
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Never used a tax preparer until I ran my own business. I rough calculated my taxes and the tax accountant saved me way more than I paid for his services.
 
#221
#221
SpaceCoastVol said:
How was he not paying his fair share by that definition? Did he purchase within a ROTH?

A self directed ROTH IRA is probably the best -dare I say - 'gift' that the government has yet to steal from us. If my wife would only get on board with me in terms of wanting to own rental properties, my ROTH would own a small town right now and I would be cashing checks in88 Thailand or some such place.

What I hear you saying is that you want to do away with the tax shelter of a ROTH IRA, and imho you can gfy. The government gets enough from me.
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I can legally defer cap gains tax on my rental property at time of sale by purchasing another higher value property within 6 months. I feel no shame at avoiding taxation. Perhaps there are some who think I am using loopholes and shelters to be a blight on society.
 
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#222
#222
McDad said:
Name calling and labels are a very public way of admitting you cannot support your argument.

Try to do some reading and research. Come back with better points. Then, you won't embarrass yourself by calling others names.
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To be fair name calling and labeling certain idiot posters is always ok and the preferred goto option. Always.
 
#223
#223
NorthDallas40 said:
To be fair name calling and labeling certain idiot posters is always ok and the preferred goto option. Always.
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You do it. But you and those other posters enjoy it. They sling the poo with you. Yall don't do it because you are incapable of forming cogent points.
 
#224
#224
McDad said:
Notions of taxing people who achieve certain levels must be defeated on principle alone. Once you've accepted the premise that government should tax those people above those levels, you've given power for them to eventually set the rates at whatever point it is politically expedient. For every person who thinks the cutoff should be 1B, there can be just as many who think it should be 1M.
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Guess I view our graduated tax rates we’ve had forever already tax people more who achieve more? I view flat tax as a pipe dream that we’ll never see. We all seem to agree that tax rates are likely to rise. The POTUS ran on lowering Medicare to age 60, they’ve raised food stamps, handing out child tax credits - how are they going to pay for this stuff without finding new things to tax?
 
#225
#225
McDad said:
You do it. But you and those other posters enjoy it. They sling the poo with you. Yall don't do it because you are incapable of forming cogent points.
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Nah I’m pretty stupid. My wife would lay her hand on a Bible and attest to that.
 
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