Black Coaches (split)

#53
#53
i2amavol said:
When I actually stop and think back on my life, it is amazing how many times that I can be pretty sure that I was discriminated against, for one reason or another. In fact, right now I am contemplating confronting a group that I feel has discriminated in a major way. I too, was raised in what would be considered near poverty. So, I agree completely. Life isn't fair, but it is a lot more fair for the rich. The poor pretty much all have the same kind of road blocks, regardless of race.

We should be focusing more on giving all the poor a better chance, rather than focus on race. It only clouds the picture, it doesn't fix it.
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I think there is a relatively small group of rich elitists like Gates who are malignant. They see themselves as lords over the rest of us.

But by and large... I do not envy or resent "the rich". Contrary to the popular conception, the "rich" I have known... work hard. They took bigger risks than most of us could tolerate. They generally know how to earn the loyalty and cooperation of the people they work with. They desire to make the world better... which includes those who work with and for them. Many help bright employees trek off on their own in a new business.

Maybe my anecdotal experience is unique and "the rich" really are evil people who cut wages so they can buy a higher quality caviar... but I don't think so.

The absolute BEST chance we can give "the poor" is freedom. Freedom to work and keep what they make. Freedom from ridiculous regulation. Freedom from people who prey on them and convince them they are victims. Freedom coupled to responsibility so that they know their success depends on their effort and that the consequences belong to them.

One of the things we should do right away that will restore a level of "equality" that our nation once had is school vouchers. Let the poor kids with ability have a $7500 voucher so they can get into the best schools public/private... religious/non-religious. Before cancelled by Obama, the voucher program was helping poor kids in Washington DC.
 
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#55
#55
sjt18 said:
Yeah. It actually does. You implied that here is persistent racial discrimination against coaches who are black. You threw out the race card because you think it trumps everything else.

My story isn't unique.... but it is a refutation of the notion that "white privilege" is why black people aren't succeeding. The success I've had wasn't handed to me. I failed several times and refused to quit. I wasn't born with a silver spoon. As far as I know, no one on either side of my family had graduated college for generations... maybe never. The only "privilege" I had going for me was two good Christian parents who instilled values and personal responsibility into us.... and that is a pretty big deal. Maybe the problems experienced by many black folks would be better solved by focusing on supporting the rebuild of the black family unit rather than blaming someone else for bad behavior and decisions?

The big lie you are perpetuating is that the deck is somehow stacked against black people who have skill and have prepared themselves for opportunities. Nothing could be further from the truth. Washington seems to be a guy Heupel wants... and not because he's black but because he's talented and ready. That's the ONLY way it should be.
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You are some kind of drama queen. I inferred nothing about discrimination by UT"s administration, only you have. You seem to be on a poor me trip, don't include me in it.
 
#56
#56
Unimane said:
It references the point about preferences, familiarity, as it would in the real world. You choosing not to go to an HBCU does not make you racist any more than a black kid being able to connect with a guy who shares his life experience is being closed minded.
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Actually none of my decisions about college even considered race. (Perhaps that's hard to comprehend?) If I'd given preference not to be taught by professors of a different race, I'd have been pretty racist.
 
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#59
#59
KptVFL said:
Hth did this thread turn into a race debate? Hard weeding through all the side talk to try to see the info that actually pertains to the thread.
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I'll help. There's nothing happening, yet, which is how these side discussions develop. When it does, the real news will take over.
 
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#60
#60
TnAngler said:
Go read the original post, has nothing to do with your crying and complaining. This post is about A Washing and possibly being hired. No where in the OP was anything about race brought up. Maybe we need to have rules for immature indivuals that want to rant about race. We have enough anger and hate in the world, this site is for Vol fans to enjoy talking all things related to UT sports.
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What on earth are you talking about "crying and complaining"? I've been extraordinarily blessed. Your post would be better suited for Swampfox who introduced the idea that hiring Washington would prove UT was serious about equal opportunity... as if UT had avoided hiring black people into significant positions systemically.
 
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#62
#62
Orange_Crush said:
Actually none of my decisions about college even considered race. (Perhaps that's hard to comprehend?) If I'd given preference not to be taught by professors of a different race, I'd have been pretty racist.
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Sure, it just never did, or would, occur to you. The point flew completely over your head.
 
#64
#64
Unimane said:
Sure, it just never did, or would, occur to you. The point flew completely over your head.
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Are you claiming that because you think I'm white, I'm by definition lying that race in college never entered my mind? If so, that's another pretty bigoted assumption.

And the point was registered and shot down as horrible logic. You were trying to make the logic that since (you assume) I'm racist, other racism is acceptable. I refuse to affirm that any racism is acceptable, and denied having used racism in college choice.

I think that's pretty much where we're at in the discussion.
 
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#68
#68
Orange_Crush said:
Are you claiming that because you think I'm white, I'm by definition lying that race in college never entered my mind? If so, that's another pretty bigoted assumption.

And the point was registered and shot down as horrible logic. You were trying to make the logic that since (you assume) I'm racist, other racism is acceptable. I refuse to affirm that any racism is acceptable, and denied having used racism in college choice.

I think that's pretty much where we're at in the discussion.
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It would be an interesting tactic for me to accuse you of racism by stating you aren't racist for this action.
 
#69
#69
sjt18 said:
Yeah. It actually does. You implied that here is persistent racial discrimination against coaches who are black. You threw out the race card because you think it trumps everything else.

My story isn't unique.... but it is a refutation of the notion that "white privilege" is why black people aren't succeeding. The success I've had wasn't handed to me. I failed several times and refused to quit. I wasn't born with a silver spoon. As far as I know, no one on either side of my family had graduated college for generations... maybe never. The only "privilege" I had going for me was two good Christian parents who instilled values and personal responsibility into us.... and that is a pretty big deal. Maybe the problems experienced by many black folks would be better solved by focusing on supporting the rebuild of the black family unit rather than blaming someone else for bad behavior and decisions?

The big lie you are perpetuating is that the deck is somehow stacked against black people who have skill and have prepared themselves for opportunities. Nothing could be further from the truth. Washington seems to be a guy Heupel wants... and not because he's black but because he's talented and ready. That's the ONLY way it should be.
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Grow up. The one and only person making this dumb a.. claims is you, you,you. Read my post all of the very carefully, then get back to me on the times i said any of your spout. Don't infer that I am a liar, I take that stuff serious.
 
#70
#70
Unimane said:
If the world operated in a vacuum, then you might have a point, but it doesn't, and neither are they simply hiring some random guy because he's black. It's this kind of silly logic which gets us the level of disparity in the first place and pretends the divide exists for completely legitimate reasons. Rather it's something certain groups whine about when their relative domination of a job, group, opportunity, etc. is disrupted by interlopers who dare to tread on the territory of people who have been given every advantage as possible over them.

You want to have a level playing field? Then eliminate every advantage white coaches have been given through the long history of unequal opportunities, i.e. unequal results, and then we'll pretend the vacuum you promote here has any semblance of existence.

All this and Washington still doesn't get a whiff of this job unless he's good enough to prospectively keep it, meaning they think he'll do a good job at it. And, that's how it always works for "equal opportunity" anyway.
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Unimane said:
If the world operated in a vacuum, then you might have a point, but it doesn't, and neither are they simply hiring some random guy because he's black. It's this kind of silly logic which gets us the level of disparity in the first place and pretends the divide exists for completely legitimate reasons. Rather it's something certain groups whine about when their relative domination of a job, group, opportunity, etc. is disrupted by interlopers who dare to tread on the territory of people who have been given every advantage as possible over them.

You want to have a level playing field? Then eliminate every advantage white coaches have been given through the long history of unequal opportunities, i.e. unequal results, and then we'll pretend the vacuum you promote here has any semblance of existence.

All this and Washington still doesn't get a whiff of this job unless he's good enough to prospectively keep it, meaning they think he'll do a good job at it. And, that's how it always works for "equal opportunity" anyway.
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Do we have a victim in our midst?
 
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#71
#71
sjt18 said:
I am. Completely. You on the other hand seem to be untethered. Discrimination including discrimination by race occurs. It always has. It always will. But it is VERY minimal in the US today. Unequal outcomes are NOT evidence of discrimination. The most JUST society you can have is one that pursues equality of opportunity PERIOD.

I've done well. I have a great job with significant responsibility and good pay. I grew up in a lower middle class home in one of the poorest counties in southern Appalachia. My parents by modern measures came out of extreme poverty. My public school came up short in its ability to prepare us for competition at top colleges. Other than having two great parents... I faced most of the disadvantages that SJW's complain about. I've had several set backs and disappointments in my career to include reverse discrimination. In all that... I was responsible for what I did with my blessings and challenges. My accent held me back so I learned to be more "professional". I worked harder than my peers. I didn't give up even when I really had been treated unfairly.

I don't hate or resent anyone and especially not because of their race. But I DO resent the idea that it is my fault that someone fails when they're failure is a product of their own repeated bad decisions.

The left leaning Brookings Institute proved that behavior is by far and away the dominant factor in a person's success. When young people finish high school, stay away from crime, and wait until marriage to have children... their prospects for work and success are comparable regardless of their race.

It isn't color... it is culture. It is self-destructive behavior and decisions. Right now in corporations there is more discrimination IN FAVOR of black applicants than against them. I have yet to work for a company that was not looking for ways to find and hire qualified black people especially in entry level managerial roles. You cannot hire people who do not apply. You cannot promote people who do not perform.
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Wow man very well said!
 
#72
#72
Unimane said:
Who says these kids don't want to play for a different race or it's rather a matter of being able to identify with someone who understands their life experiences?
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That’s an interesting thought, your last sentence. Does it stand that all people of a certain race do have the same life experience? I have a good friend of a different race than I am. He was raised in upper middle class suburban neighborhoods, parents didn’t divorce, hasn’t had any direct drug experience in his own house. I wasn’t raised with money as my family struggled to pay bills and put food on the table, my parents divorced when I was 2, I dealt with abuse of about any kind you can name, and I’ve seen up close what drugs and alcohol can do to a household. How does race enter the equation in these scenarios? Do either of these experiences identify with a particular race in your opinion?
 
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#73
#73
BigOrangeTrain said:
Like I said you are part of the problem. And obviously you don’t even know it. Your post is what keeps black people down. It diminishes their abilities and accomplishments. The color of a persons skin has NOTHING to do with their potential for success. But hey keep pushing the woke, social justice warrior agenda of race baiting. Meanwhile the adults will go back to meaningful discussion.
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The only thing that keeps minorities down in this country is the victim mentality. There are great people who are minorities that have very well succeeded in our society because they knew that being a victim was a sign of ignorance and weakness. The same can be said of poor caucasians that populate such poor regions such as Appalachia. Most of this German, Irish, and Scotch population came here as indentured servants or share croppers and rose up by the American Dream. And most of them were not brought forward by social programs but values of hard work and desire. Over the last 60 years there is no excuse for anyone carrying the victim mentality with the laws we have in this land. Anyone can be successful if they choose, regardless of race or ethnicity.

There is no greater evidence of this than today UT offered a highly inflated salary to a coach with good qualifications.
 
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