Border Fence

[BreatheUT]

One of the tougher things to accept coming out of the midterms is Mayorkas may never get fired in front of the public.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Your semi respectful OP was the reason I thought you erred in your reply. Your strawman performance didn't seem to be in line with OP to me.

Well, that's not surprising, just the same, as Benjamin Grimm tends to say, "Watta revoltin development."

 

[joevol33]

we're finally realizing that Hispanics are turning against Democrats, and we don't like them anymore.

Fyp

 

[BreatheUT]

I just think we are at a point where the political advantages of a big picture solution outweigh the benefit to the parties of having the issue to campaign on.

You should be asking yourself how did we let it come to this and why did it take you this long? You have to see the problem before it develops. We are deep into the middle of a screw job.

 

[C-south]

Except that walls and fences are only a deterrent to someone unwilling to risk personal harm.

Which is better than just “laws”.

 

[BreatheUT]

You're claiming our wall is different and adequately staffed compared to wall impediments throughout history. I disagree. We can employ tech which would give advantage, but people are necessary...especially for 2,000+ miles.

I'm saying we can't have paralysis by analysis.

Let's be honest, talk of a wall is irrelevant with this current administration. It was one of the more important things DJT didn't get to finish and since then the democrats have made a mockery of the process. I'm surprised they just haven't torn what was built down.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I just think we are at a point where the political advantages of a big picture solution outweigh the benefit to the parties of having the issue to campaign on.

OK LOL...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I just think we are at a point where the political advantages of a big picture solution outweigh the benefit to the parties of having the issue to campaign on.

So, to be clear, are you for building a wall or some other measure to limit immigrants or "illegal aliens"?

 

[BreatheUT]

So, to be clear, are you for building a wall or some other measure to limit immigrants or "illegal aliens"?

He just wants to complain about it or have an opportunity to announce some milquetoast solution that's worse.

 

[lawgator1]

So, to be clear, are you for building a wall or some other measure to limit immigrants or "illegal aliens"?

Yes, but I think any solution also has to address the problem of the people who are already here.

 

[NCFisher]

A wall is an impediment. A hundred, or thousand, people can't simply walk over a 30' wall in mere minutes as they can an unenforced border.

No one has proposed a wall without surveillance and enforcement; it's a strawman argument. Satellite, radar, and drone surveillance can alert and track people long before they get to a wall, or border. Deploy seismic & acoustic tech to detect tunnel operations, as Israel does. Surveillance and detection tech means we don't need border guards standing shoulder to shoulder mile for mile behind the wall; border jumpers can't just sneak up on applied security layers, and you move personnel as needed.

The elegance of the Trump plan was holding Mexico culpable. Here you have a border nation - by all accounts and claim a 'friendly' partner - allowing & aiding the assault on your border. By forcing Mexico to tighten their southern border with Guatemala - the funnel of the northerly invasion - and adopting a 'remain in' policy, we had a scheme that worked in dramatic fashion. Add a comprehensive wall and security, and you're effectively in control of your border.

Walls have and are protecting borders globally because they impede the attempt, not because they deter the attempt itself. Walls work when you want them to.

 

[NCFisher]

Yes, but I think any solution also has to address the problem of the people who are already here.

They are connected but distinct problems. Secure the border as a national security matter, and deal with the tens of millions illegally here as a separate policy issue.

 

[lawgator1]

They are connected but distinct problems. Secure the border as a national security matter, and deal with the tens of millions illegally here as a separate policy issue.

I mean politically. I think they have to be packaged to pass.

 

[BreatheUT]

A wall is an impediment. A hundred, or thousand, people can't simply walk over a 30' wall in mere minutes as they can an unenforced border.

No one has proposed a wall without surveillance and enforcement; it's a strawman argument. Satellite, radar, and drone surveillance can alert and track people long before they get to a wall, or border. Deploy seismic & acoustic tech to detect tunnel operations, as Israel does. Surveillance and detection tech means we don't need border guards standing shoulder to shoulder mile for mile behind the wall in order; border jumpers can't just sneak up on applied security layers, and you move personnel as needed.

The elegance of the Trump plan was holding Mexico culpable. Here you have a border nation - by all accounts and claim a 'friendly' partner - allowing & aiding the assault on your border. By forcing Mexico to tighten their southern border with Guatemala - the funnel of the northerly invasion - and adopting a 'remain in' policy, we had a scheme that worked in dramatic fashion. Add a comprehensive wall and security, and you're effectively in control of your border.

Walls have and are protecting borders globally because they impede the attempt, not because they deter the attempt itself. Walls work when you want them to.

Well put.

 

[BreatheUT]

I mean politically. I think they have to be packaged to pass.

Lol....ok.

* Give us potentially 10M - 15M more democrat voters strategically flown around the country

*Voting on a secure border plan that passes but never gets implemented

Any Republican that would vote to pass this should continue to get forced out and turned into a media democrat.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yes, but I think any solution also has to address the problem of the people who are already here.

What is your solution: let them stay or kick them out?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Agreed with much. Willpower is the collective characteristic.
But walls without patrols are not worth the money.

I think you can leverage technology today to cut down the required guards manning the wall but you might just be moving the labor cost to another bucket. Maintaining the technology. Can’t say that I’ve ever seen an honest comparison.

I would say minefields probably require little to no maintenance

 

[C-south]

I mean politically. I think they have to be packaged to pass.

Thanks for showing how utterly idiotic your party is. Here’s a solution, build a wall, deport the ones here illegally, and do away with asylum. If you want to become an American citizen then apply for a work visa and then apply for citizenship if you wish. Then to undergo a background check.

 

[C-south]

Agreed with much. Willpower is the collective characteristic.
But walls without patrols are not worth the money.

Motion sensor cameras are pretty common and not very expensive.

 

[Gandalf]

I was with you except on the shoot people part. We do have to find a serious way to eliminate the cartels though by putting them 6 feet deep.

It does sound extreme to some but would be effective. Once it became clear that was the policy, very very few would be willing to attempt it. Reality is that encroachment of borders has long been considered a serious act by almost every country in the world with a functioning military (except ours).

Even without that, you could probably get 2/3 there simply by building a wall and immediately shipping EVERYONE back. Once that became known, much fewer people would risk the expense to come.

 

[BreatheUT]

It does sound extreme to some but would be effective. Once it became clear that was the policy, very very few would be willing to attempt it. Reality is that encroachment of borders has long been considered a serious act by almost every country in the world with a functioning military (except ours).

Even without that, you could probably get 2/3 there simply by building a wall and immediately shipping EVERYONE back. Once that became known, much fewer people would risk the expense to come.

That's exactly what began to happen under Trump.

 

[McDad]

A wall is an impediment. A hundred, or thousand, people can't simply walk over a 30' wall in mere minutes as they can an unenforced border.

No one has proposed a wall without surveillance and enforcement; it's a strawman argument. Satellite, radar, and drone surveillance can alert and track people long before they get to a wall, or border. Deploy seismic & acoustic tech to detect tunnel operations, as Israel does. Surveillance and detection tech means we don't need border guards standing shoulder to shoulder mile for mile behind the wall; border jumpers can't just sneak up on applied security layers, and you move personnel as needed.

The elegance of the Trump plan was holding Mexico culpable. Here you have a border nation - by all accounts and claim a 'friendly' partner - allowing & aiding the assault on your border. By forcing Mexico to tighten their southern border with Guatemala - the funnel of the northerly invasion - and adopting a 'remain in' policy, we had a scheme that worked in dramatic fashion. Add a comprehensive wall and security, and you're effectively in control of your border.

Walls have and are protecting borders globally because they impede the attempt, not because they deter the attempt itself. Walls work when you want them to.

I paid attention to the build a wall rhetoric because I thought it was a boondoggle. I didn't hear of any talk about additional personnel. I also don't know if the current force is adequate. I'm interested if you've got additional information. TIA.

 

[EasternVol]

Nahh...Its not about having a wall or 500k guards. Its what they will do to you if they catch you, THAT is what makes the difference.

The reason it went WAY down during Trump is because the perception that they would be sent back ASAP (not always correct). Right now they SEEK OUT the authorities so that they can get a processing card and get sent into a city somewhere and begin getting services.

If you made it clear that EVERY SINGLE border crosser (men, women, kids, doesnt matter) who is caught or found would be put in prison for 2 years then promptly shipped back to some other country illegal crossings would drop by a HUGE number. If you then built a decent wall and had a few roving border guards but who were tasked to shoot people who entered illegally (like they do in many countries) then ALMOST NOBODY would try to cross the border any more, only the most desperate drug dealers. Illegals would be near non-existent and street prices for drugs would soar.

So, it is only a matter of WILLPOWER that keeps us having immigration problems. That would probably solve a lot of drug problems as well. Tens of thousands of American lives saved every year.

Some good points except for the shooting illegals part. What countries do that?
Even three months in jail would be a good deterrent if it's followed by deportation.

 

[NCFisher]

I paid attention to the build a wall rhetoric because I thought it was a boondoggle. I didn't hear of any talk about additional personnel. I also don't know if the current force is adequate. I'm interested if you've got additional information. TIA.

No, no additional info. With monitoring and detection informing mobilization to potential breach attempts along a barrier that can't be walked across, I don't see the need for more personnel increases than without a proper security perimeter. You may never stop the onsies/twosies but you can sure intercept group breaches of tens to over a thousand people. As many as or more than 60% of border agents have been reassigned from interdiction & field roles to processing those encountered.

Against the backdrop flood of legal, caught, and got aways, it's easy to forget this is a national security issue. We've no idea who's getting in.

 

[VolStrom]

What Trump didn't do to the wall is what farmers have been doing for decades.... electrification. It's a great deterrent and could be turned off and on at random to keep the illegal border hoppers wonder when it's going to turn on.