Border Fence

[NCFisher]

Some good points except for the shooting illegals part. What countries do that?
Even three months in jail would be a good deterrent if it's followed by deportation.

I think it's easier than that; enforce current asylum law to letter of intent, and reform it from the 'get a foot down, catch/release' policy. Keep the Trump strategy and finish establishing the physical security perimeter. Asylum law means a specific thing and it isn't better economic opportunity or "we don't want to live in a bad Nicaraguan neighborhood anymore".

We can't practically begin to jail - or machinegun - these numbers:
In 2021, CBP encountered 1.7M illegal entrants and observed 389K gotaways. Known gotaways were 600K thus far in 2022. There were just 69K known gotaways prior to Biden, in 2020.

 

[Sin City Vol]

Building a true border fence was one of the very few things I think Trump had right. Long before the Liarindent's regime, I saw firsthand reasons to restrict the influx of border-crossers. People who came here, got a driver license and discarded traffic laws. Speeding through crosswalks and by crossing guards in school zones. People, visiting their friends/family at apartment complexes, while ignoring guest spots and parking in the assigned shaded ports of tenant. And childishly sticking their tongue out at you if you mentioned they needed to move their car, so you could park in your own assigned spot. Same behavior when ignoring rights of way at intersections, in plaza and mall parking lot. Walking to the left in hallways, forcing you to move to your left and smirking about it. Cutting in line alone or with a bunch of their friends/family and laughing at you about it. Groups blocking hallways and sidewalks and purposely ignoring you. But the biggest experience that irked me was a BIG sign on a freeway back in the 1970s that said drivers were legally responsible if you hit illegal border-crossers darting across the freeway to reach the other side of the road.

So when the Liarindent proposed and sought to build a wall, much as disliked and didn't trust him, I cheered him on this. And once again, we're seeing that he was right about this. SIGH, what could have been if the guy had more sense.

I’m not against a wall along the border but you literally described a lot of American Citizens in regards to traffic laws. Hell 90% of teenagers do the same thing.

 

[NCFisher]

I’m not against a wall along the border but you literally described a lot of American Citizens in regards to traffic laws. Hell 90% of teenagers do the same thing.

C'mon, man! - nothing says border and national security like not having brown people sticking their tongues out at you and jaywalking.

 

[Sin City Vol]

C'mon, man! - nothing says border and national security like not having brown people sticking their tongues out at you and jaywalking.

That’s how I determine if someone is here legally…cut me off in traffic, then you’re on the deportation list

 

[AM64]

Walls are ineffective as a stand alone. The only walls in history were manned with soldiers with orders to kill.
Using Rome and China as an example, we would require roughly 50-100 guards per mile over the 2000+ miles. 100k to 200k guards.

Barriers are force multipliers because they create choke points when done right. They can at least funnel people to points that are more easily guarded than wide open spaces that would require thousands more people guarding the border. You are right no border wall or fence is perfect, but they work remarkably well for places like prisons (to keep some people in) ... and places where "important" people live to keep others out.

 

[AM64]

I don't think we will need more guards than we have now. The average group of people trying to cross will never get through or over. Then you worry about tunnels which are much easier to manage.

Any reasonable deterrent is better than nothing. There are guys who can scale the fences and walls that exist, but most others can't. Patrol and keep breeches or stiles removed, but most of all fill in the big gaping openness between runs of wall and fence. Nothing says "come on in" better than long stretches of border closed by nothing.

 

[AM64]

Yes, but I think any solution also has to address the problem of the people who are already here.

Start with ending our birthright citizenship. Anchor babies are one fantastic incentive for illegals to be here. Most of the world has ended this practice. Doesn't mean kids are born stateless - they just derive citizenship from that of the parents.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I’m not against a wall along the border but you literally described a lot of American Citizens in regards to traffic laws. Hell 90% of teenagers do the same thing.

What I saw back then was something like 30 -50 people suddenly dashing across a high speed freeway. Now, back in the 1970s, while I did see or read about 1 -5 jackasses dart across a freeway, seeing 30 -50 people do it all at once wasn't common, except in border states. It was so bad, some states put up signs warning drivers who hit these people would be held liable. Combined with having to suddenly brake, knowing other speeding vehicles were behind me, that could lead to chain reaction wrecks, pissed me off. That was the catalyst for me being pro-fence. I even used to talk about electrified fences, and 30 feet high Berlin Wall type impediments back then. Of course, I got pooh-poohed back in those days. My whole point, as stated in my original post was: Putting up a wall was/is one of the very things I was 100% in agreement with Trump. I also agreed with his idea of giving our military a serious boost because I could see the Russo-Iran-China coalition forming in earnest as far back as the late 1980s. So when the Liarindent came decades later mouthing about seriously beefing up our military, I was all for it, and now we see why we have to. Still, I never trusted nor liked the guy from the get go, even when he was just a TV personality. But even bad guys can do good things once in a while. Gila Monsters, for example, are poisonous creatures best avoided. But the same venom gives us a medication that helps combat the effects of diabetes. Bad thing doing something good, but still best avoided.

 

[AM64]

I mean politically. I think they have to be packaged to pass.

That was done once and failed. Remember the Reagan agreement for amnesty in exchange for measures to limit illegal immigration?

 

[AM64]

Lol....ok.

* Give us potentially 10M - 15M more democrat voters strategically flown around the country

*Voting on a secure border plan that passes but never gets implemented

Any Republican that would vote to pass this should continue to get forced out and turned into a media democrat.

If you determine exactly who is a US citizen and base apportionment and government handouts on that number, you can bet dems would be far less fond of their illegals. Illegals may really not vote, but their presence does influence the vote.

 

[Orangeburst]

If you determine exactly who is a US citizen and base apportionment and government handouts on that number, you can bet dems would be far less fond of their illegals. Illegals may really not vote, but their presence does influence the vote.

Spot On..other than CC, the biggest sam perpetrated on the Republic. Why they foungfht so hard on the Census question. And the idiot Republicans are stupid AF again and as always.

 

[AM64]

What Trump didn't do to the wall is what farmers have been doing for decades.... electrification. It's a great deterrent and could be turned off and on at random to keep the illegal border hoppers wonder when it's going to turn on.

Electric fences would have to be green though - probably means the fences would only work in the day and somebody would steal batteries if you tried storage ... and probably later the solar panels, too.

 

[McDad]

Barriers are force multipliers because they create choke points when done right. They can at least funnel people to points that are more easily guarded than wide open spaces that would require thousands more people guarding the border. You are right no border wall or fence is perfect, but they work remarkably well for places like prisons (to keep some people in) ... and places where "important" people live to keep others out.

I agree a wall is an impediment. And great walls are great force multipliers. What I am steadfast in claiming is: ¹ A wall will not show the results yall want as a stand alone. ² Personnel are needed, a lot of personnel, and no pro wall proponent politicians have offered any specifics on size, scope, and orders of that personnel. You're asking DC to make you feel safe while giving them another blank check. Eventually, we must stop that approach.

 

[AM64]

I agree a wall is an impediment. And great walls are great force multipliers. What I am steadfast in claiming is: ¹ A wall will not show the results yall want as a stand alone. ² Personnel are needed, a lot of personnel, and no pro wall proponent politicians have offered any specifics on size, scope, and orders of that personnel. You're asking DC to make you feel safe while giving them another blank check. Eventually, we must stop that approach.

I understand what you are saying and to a great extent agree, but there has to be a solution and that means there will be a cost. We have to find a way to transfer the costs from illegal invasion to prevention. The problem is that we have no real way to make someone else pay the cost - either way. I always thought Trump's comment about Mexico paying for the wall was intended to be a series of economic measures against Mexico if they didn't step up and help with the problem, but you could see from the start of his administration virtually anything he proposed was going to be blocked.

 

[BreatheUT]

Any reasonable deterrent is better than nothing. There are guys who can scale the fences and walls that exist, but most others can't. Patrol and keep breeches or stiles removed, but most of all fill in the big gaping openness between runs of wall and fence. Nothing says "come on in" better than long stretches of border closed by nothing.

Exactly. It will pay for itself and it's a one time capital outlay. The probably billions government benefits we are providing is recurring.

 

[McDad]

I understand what you are saying and to a great extent agree, but there has to be a solution and that means there will be a cost. We have to find a way to transfer the costs from illegal invasion to prevention. The problem is that we have no real way to make someone else pay the cost - either way. I always thought Trump's comment about Mexico paying for the wall was intended to be a series of economic measures against Mexico if they didn't step up and help with the problem, but you could see from the start of his administration virtually anything he proposed was going to be blocked.

I believe immigrants can fund all, or a significant portion, of the cost.

 

[BreatheUT]

I understand what you are saying and to a great extent agree, but there has to be a solution and that means there will be a cost. We have to find a way to transfer the costs from illegal invasion to prevention. The problem is that we have no real way to make someone else pay the cost - either way. I always thought Trump's comment about Mexico paying for the wall was intended to be a series of economic measures against Mexico if they didn't step up and help with the problem, but you could see from the start of his administration virtually anything he proposed was going to be blocked.

This is what he was talking about. No rational person expected Mexico to make payments on a wall, and if they did expect that well.....

 

[NCFisher]

This is what he was talking about. No rational person expected Mexico to make payments on a wall, and if they did expect that well.....

Yes, though Mexico did subsidize a sizeable part with thousands of their National Guard securing their southern border, and as U.S. immigration proxy with the 'remain in' policy.

 

[NCFisher]

I believe immigrants can fund all, or a significant portion, of the cost.

I'm probably a goof but I'm not visualizing how immigrants would fund - ?

 

[McDad]

I'm probably a goof but I'm not visualizing how immigrants would fund - ?

An immigration fee. Illegals will pay 5k+ to be smuggled in. Surely they could pay that to be brought in legally. Double wouldn't be unreasonable. It could be paid over 60 months, too.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

 

[Electric Orange]

I'm probably a goof but I'm not visualizing how immigrants would fund - ?

With the reparations they'll inevitably demand due to colonialism.

 

[C-south]

With the reparations they'll inevitably demand due to colonialism.

I miss the good ole days when you would just conquer a nation and take it over instead of sneaking in to mooch someone else’s leg work.

 

[Electric Orange]

I miss the good ole days when you would just conquer a nation and take it over instead of sneaking in to mooch someone else’s leg work.

Yep, that was before everyone's problems got blamed on the winners.
I wonder how they all reached that conclusion.

 

[tnmarktx]

This all day. Everyone should be all over their elected officials, asking why a blank check is offered to Ukraine while the border is totally ignored.