Breakdown tn vs kentucky (merged)

[Marc Maggard]

My bad, this post was at the bottom of the page so I missed it.

On these questions. And those are particularly good questions, but you're right, what would be the point in me answering since when I posted my answers you'd just say "nice googling". There is nothing to gain in that, unless you really want to have a good discussion about that stuff, which I sense you really don't.

But if you honestly believe someone who takes time to post on a tiny messageboard about college basketball, and who also like to reserach stats about that very sport, does not know what a UCLA cut is, or what base offenses are at the ready(how about no more flex for starters! jk), nor what a pick-game-like hard hedge screen is, you are underestimating the basic competence of anyone who follows sports closely.

Recall: this conversation started because you quoted a post of mine that dealt with stats, this is why we are only take in that limited scope.

I will gladly answer all your questions, and with interest in a good discussion from that, but I get the sense you meant them in mean-spirit and really have no intention of discussing the finer points of schemes and execution since you have already dismissed anything I have to say because I like stats TOO.

That said, I'm glad you enjoy Gladwell, he happened to be the writer of that new yorker article I mentioned pages ago. You would enjoy it.

I really don't think you could have much of a basketball discussion at all.....sorry. I don't really think you'd be able to watch a game and really even know what kind of offense a team was running..... sorry, but I don't buy it. If you did know much about hoops, you wouldn't have said a bunch of the things you've said.... and this is coming from someone who talks to college coaches every single day......and it's got nothing to do with liking stats "too".....it's cause you've shown no ability to know anything else.....

Oh, and I didn't ask if you knew what a UCLA cut was... I asked if you would use it with UT and if so, for who..... but you are right, I don't think you could answer that question very well......or any of the others I've asked.

And please, you need to realize why this discussion started..... YOU made a remark about my comment....not the other way around.

mm

 

[lidderer]

1. Yes.
2. I don't "claim" anything. My track record here speaks for itself.

2. That's fair, I haven't seen much inside stuff yet, though you were one of the few like me that knew kentucky was for real, so I'll give you that. Why dont you do something pregame instead of postgame? I mean it's easy to examine what did happen, but why not try and provide things to look for beforehand, instead of just "this is when UT has to put it all together" or some other platitude?

I think that would be interesting.

 

[hatvol96]

2. That's fair, I haven't seen much inside stuff yet

You obviously don't pay much attention.

 

[hatvol96]

2. That's fair, I haven't seen much inside stuff yet, though you were one of the few like me that knew kentucky was for real, so I'll give you that. Why dont you do something pregame instead of postgame? I mean it's easy to examine what did happen, but why not try and provide things to look for beforehand, instead of just "this is when UT has to put it all together" or some other platitude?

I think that would be interesting.

Rare is the game that is played that I don't provide my thoughts beforehand.

 

[lidderer]

I really don't think you could have much of a basketball discussion at all.....sorry. I don't really think you'd be able to watch a game and really even know what kind of offense a team was running..... sorry, but I don't buy it. If you did know much about hoops, you wouldn't have said a bunch of the things you've said.... and this is coming from someone who talks to college coaches every single day......and it's got nothing to do with liking stats "too".....it's cause you've shown no ability to know anything else.....

Oh, and I didn't ask if you knew what a UCLA cut was... I asked if you would use it with UT and if so, for who..... but you are right, I don't think you could answer that question very well......or any of the others I've asked.

And please, you need to realize why this discussion started..... YOU made a remark about my comment....not the other way around.

mm

I will say that I think you are right on this point: it would not be a good discussion, largely because you are childlike and petulant at every turn and breathe such massive insecurity in your stance that it would be less like an intersting discussion and more like walking on little ego eggshells. That's no fun.

The questions you ask aren't hard to answer, and are even the types of things discussed on freakin espn2 halftime shows. Do you really think it takes a scout to know which players--their makeup, tendencies, etc.--would work well in what is one of the most namedropped plays ever?

Even your grandmother who has watched only march madness games could tell you it matters to which side and if your guy is southpaw or not, and if you got the Green Giant you leave it alone.

That's fundamental stuff though, what's some really deep scout type stuff?(I actually seriously want to know; and if you think i wouldn't 'get it', then I'm sure someone else reading the tread would be happy to hear the info, unless you think they are below your knowledge too)

 

[lidderer]

Rare is the game that is played that I don't provide my thoughts beforehand.

Oh ok, good. I just havent seen a pregame thread really where you've led it off I guess, like what seems to be your postgame tendency.

 

[Marc Maggard]

I will say that I think you are right on this point: it would not be a good discussion, largely because you are childlike and petulant at every turn and breathe such massive insecurity in your stance that it would be less like an intersting discussion and more like walking on little ego eggshells. That's no fun.

The questions you ask aren't hard to answer, and are even the types of things discussed on freakin espn2 halftime shows. Do you really think it takes a scout to know which players--their makeup, tendencies, etc.--would work well in what is one of the most namedropped plays ever?

Even your grandmother who has watched only march madness games could tell you it matters to which side and if your guy is southpaw or not, and if you got the Green Giant you leave it alone.

That's fundamental stuff though, what's some really deep scout type stuff?(I actually seriously want to know; and if you think i wouldn't 'get it', then I'm sure someone else reading the tread would be happy to hear the info, unless you think they are below your knowledge too)

Sorry...tried to keep it really simple for you....lol.

Insecurity? not an ounce. But if you saying I'm insecure is a good "out" for you, that's fine with me.

You've still not said a single thing that makes me think you know anything other than the URL for Ken Pomeroy....lol

For you to try to tell me that UK doesn't make any more "unforced" TO's than other teams based on your STATS page...well, that's the kind of thing that gets you fired in my business......

mm

 

[lidderer]

"Stjs atrocious outside game and their inability to get to the line probably mean they'll have to rely on paint points or decent mid range jumpshooting"

Stj from outside: 21%
Inability to get to the line for Stj: 9 Ft attempts all game

that's what numbers would have told you, and that is what happened. You said you didnt know anything about the teams so couldn't comment because you wouldn't look at the numbers.

You could have just looked at the numbers.

 

[lidderer]

Sorry...tried to keep it really simple for you....lol.

Insecurity? not an ounce. But if you saying I'm insecure is a good "out" for you, that's fine with me.

You've still not said a single thing that makes me think you know anything other than the URL for Ken Pomeroy....lol

For you to try to tell me that UK doesn't make any more "unforced" TO's than other teams based on your STATS page...well, that's the kind of thing that gets you fired in my business......

mm

Guy, you are loling at your own jokes, you ask questions about the UCLA cut to prove that that is what is termed real basketball knowledge, and then when i answer that basic question you backpedal and say "just trying to keep it easy for you..lol" when you presented it initially as something important. These are the hallmarks of insecurity. It's not an out for me, I dont care at all if you're insecure, I'll gladly talk ball with you, but you just seem to like little barbs and advancing your belief instead of constructively looking at various angles and elements.

And finally, and lastly, as you just are not hearing me: it does not matter if kentucky turns the ball over more in a forced sense, as that is the product of countless other things(as bigmanvol or whatever his name is will tell you(he's the guy on your side, recall)) that over the course of a year will not improve to any significant degree.

My entire point from the get-go was that Kentucky will not improve in total TOs, and that is all that matters as that is all that, as hat says, affects the scoreboard.

 

[joeydupree]

Keep it simple for ME...

What was your point again ?

 

[Marc Maggard]

Guy, you are loling at your own jokes, you ask questions about the UCLA cut to prove that that is what is termed real basketball knowledge, and then when i answer that basic question you backpedal and say "just trying to keep it easy for you..lol" when you presented it initially as something important. These are the hallmarks of insecurity. It's not an out for me, I dont care at all if you're insecure, I'll gladly talk ball with you, but you just seem to like little barbs and advancing your belief instead of constructively looking at various angles and elements.

And finally, and lastly, as you just are not hearing me: it does not matter if kentucky turns the ball over more in a forced sense, as that is the product of countless other things(as bigmanvol or whatever his name is will tell you(he's the guy on your side, recall)) that over the course of a year will not improve to any significant degree.

My entire point from the get-go was that Kentucky will not improve in total TOs, and that is all that matters as that is all that, as hat says, affects the scoreboard.

I didn't ask you what a UCLA cut was.... I asked you if you'd use it and for who....kinda different.

And yeah, I'm laughing at you cause I think you are sitting in a room all day in front of your computer reading stats and playing World Of Warcraft online with the girlfriend you've never met in "real" life but think she's cool cause she is an OGRE class warrior.

Your entire point from the get go was that I was wrong in saying why UK turned the ball over......that it wasn't careless mistakes on UK's part which made them toward the bottom..... And I said you were wrong, which you are.

mm

 

[lidderer]

Keep it simple for ME...

What was your point again ?

making a distinction between unforced and forced turnovers does not matter over the course of a season in terms of how well a team is in that category.

Kentucky turns the ball over a lot, plain and simple, and they will continue doing so throught the year at the rate of the bottom 3rd of teams in that stat.

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[Marc Maggard]

"Stjs atrocious outside game and their inability to get to the line probably mean they'll have to rely on paint points or decent mid range jumpshooting"

Stj from outside: 21%
Inability to get to the line for Stj: 9 Ft attempts all game

that's what numbers would have told you, and that is what happened. You said you didnt know anything about the teams so couldn't comment because you wouldn't look at the numbers.

You could have just looked at the numbers.

LOL....seriously?

St. Johns is a horrible FT shooting team. I don't know the numbers, but they are bad. Did you really think they would win the game by getting to the line?

and you said UCONN would score 79 points and St. Johns would score 64..... KenPom was of by quite a bit there, buddy.....

UCONN also has some great interior D, so not sure why you thought they'd shoot well from midrange against UCONN.....

mm

 

[lidderer]

I didn't ask you what a UCLA cut was.... I asked you if you'd use it and for who....kinda different.

And yeah, I'm laughing at you cause I think you are sitting in a room all day in front of your computer reading stats and playing World Of Warcraft online with the girlfriend you've never met in "real" life but think she's cool cause she is an OGRE class warrior.

Your entire point from the get go was that I was wrong in saying why UK turned the ball over......that it wasn't careless mistakes on UK's part which made them toward the bottom..... And I said you were wrong, which you are.

mm

Yes, I'm pretty sure I described what type of player you would want in a UCLA cut, as anyone with even an ounce of basketball knowledge could.

I think this warcraft thing is probably a generational thing, as I have no idea what it is, I'm sorry. I don't particularly understand what my wife has to do with this, but I can tell that because you infer from "stats are meaningful" that someone is also so much else, that you are essentially a stereotyper, and that sounds like a really bad trait for a scout to have.

But don't worry, I'm laughing at you too...yawn, it's gradeschool again.

Dude, read the thread again, I said that it doesnt matter what is constituting a turnover, so long as there is a turnover.

Not gonna respond to the St John's game huh?

 

[Marc Maggard]

making a distinction between unforced and forced turnovers does not matter over the course of a season in terms of how well a team is in that category.

Kentucky turns the ball over a lot, plain and simple, and they will continue doing so throught the year at the rate of the bottom 3rd of teams in that stat.

That's it in a nutshell.

Dude, you are major thick.....

The discussion was about UT's PRESS and how UK would do against it......

I made the point that UK has been pretty good about handling a full court press and that UT's press won't force any more TO's than against a team with average TO numbers..... I said that UT wouldn't get many points from a full court press.... AND I WAS RIGHT.

Your remarks were to ME and in THAT context.....

So...now you want to claim that it doesn't matter how the TO's come, but it sure does when the conversation was about UT's press.....

this is why your stats are useless......

mm

 

[Marc Maggard]

Yes, I'm pretty sure I described what type of player you would want in a UCLA cut, as anyone with even an ounce of basketball knowledge could.

I think this warcraft thing is probably a generational thing, as I have no idea what it is, I'm sorry. I don't particularly understand what my wife has to do with this, but I can tell that because you infer from "stats are meaningful" that someone is also so much else, that you are essentially a stereotyper, and that sounds like a really bad trait for a scout to have.

But don't worry, I'm laughing at you too...yawn, it's gradeschool again.

Dude, read the thread again, I said that it doesnt matter what is constituting a turnover, so long as there is a turnover.

Not gonna respond to the St John's game huh?

I didn't ask you what type of player you would run it for... I asked you WHO you would run it for with UT.....but it doesn't matter, you don't know much about hoops....seriously.

Yeah, you got me...I'm a sterotyper....there goes my career.

and I already laughed at the amazing insight you got from your stats about St. Johns.....

mm

 

[lidderer]

LOL....seriously?

St. Johns is a horrible FT shooting team. I don't know the numbers, but they are bad. Did you really think they would win the game by getting to the line?

and you said UCONN would score 79 points and St. Johns would score 64..... KenPom was of by quite a bit there, buddy.....

UCONN also has some great interior D, so not sure why you thought they'd shoot well from midrange against UCONN.....

mm

Are you insane? My whole point was that their poor FT shooting is exactly why they WOULDNT win.

Yes, Uconn has great interior D, I said that, where on earth did you get me saying that Stj would shoot well?

ANd yes, I also said they are horrible from outside, and they shot 21%.

That means the numbers were completly right. My god man.

And yes scoring numbers hard to predict, but margin of victory was 12 and I said 15, I have no problem with that. That's damn accurate.

What on earth are you loling at, hahahaha?

 

[lidderer]

I didn't ask you what type of player you would run it for... I asked you WHO you would run it for with UT.....but it doesn't matter, you don't know much about hoops....seriously.

Yeah, you got me...I'm a sterotyper....there goes my career.

and I already laughed at the amazing insight you got from your stats about St. Johns.....

mm

Ideally you'd want Prince on his hand-side going in for the layup and functioning as an outside wing, though the likelihood of the ucla cut resulting in guard layups has been effectively countered recently due to the plays popularity, but someone with a good driving ability--and though prince lacks almost every other ability, he has that--who could handle the 5 coming over would be ideal. Tatum possibly in some kind of wonderfully ideal future.

Ftr, I havent really seen you say anything about hoops at all, except a banal observation...seriously.

Well yes, you are a stereotyper, I didnt 'get you' on that, you just typed out a stereotype.

Ya you laughed at how what I typed out was exactly what happened. Um, funny stuff there.

 

[Marc Maggard]

Are you insane? My whole point was that their poor FT shooting is exactly why they WOULDNT win.

Yes, Uconn has great interior D, I said that, where on earth did you get me saying that Stj would shoot well?

ANd yes, I also said they are horrible from outside, and they shot 21%.

That means the numbers were completly right. My god man.

And yes scoring numbers hard to predict, but margin of victory was 12 and I said 15, I have no problem with that. That's damn accurate.

What on earth are you loling at, hahahaha?

Yeah.... doesn't take much stats or numbers to know that St. Johns can't shoot and UConn can defend.....

Good job coach....k:

mm

 

[lidderer]

Yeah.... doesn't take much stats or numbers to know that St. Johns can't shoot and UConn can defend.....

Good job coach....k:

mm

marc maggard wrote: "I got no idea..... Haven't seen them enough to have an idea

and not just a score..... how is one team going to beat the other...."

LOL

I gave you exactly how they were going to beat them and it was exactly right. You had 'no idea'.

My god, Marc....LOL indeed!

 

[Marc Maggard]

marc maggard wrote: "I got no idea..... Haven't seen them enough to have an idea

and not just a score..... how is one team going to beat the other...."

LOL

I gave you exactly how they were going to beat them and it was exactly right. You had 'no idea'.

My god, Marc....LOL indeed!

You think saying "St. John's can't score from outside, so they need to score shots from inside" is some sort of game insight????

Dude, that just don't cut it....sorry.

You obviously don't know a thing about previewing a game...... that was ridiculous.

I feel like I'm at the Special Olympics for basketball scouting.

mm

 

[lidderer]

You think saying "St. John's can't score from outside, so they need to score shots from inside" is some sort of game insight????

Dude, that just don't cut it....sorry.

You obviously don't know a thing about previewing a game...... that was ridiculous.

I feel like I'm at the Special Olympics for basketball scouting.

mm

vs "i got no idea", hahahahaha

I could gladly give you a good preview, but I was attempting to show you how just simple numbers could tell you pretty much what the game was gonna end up like(which hatvol says is all that matters: the scoreboard, right?), and it ended up just like that, haha.

If my numbers were special olympics, what is "i got no idea"?

"LOL" --mm

 

[Marc Maggard]

vs "i got no idea", hahahahaha

I could gladly give you a good preview, but I was attempting to show you how just simple numbers could tell you pretty much what the game was gonna end up like(which hatvol says is all that matters: the scoreboard, right?), and it ended up just like that, haha.

If my numbers were special olympics, what is "i got no idea"?

"LOL" --mm

"I got no idea" is what a smart person says when they don't want to look like an idiot by saying something as elementary as "St. Johns can't hit threes, so they need to score from midrange"........

mm

 

[lidderer]

"I got no idea" is what a smart person says when they don't want to look like an idiot by saying something as elementary as "St. Johns can't hit threes, so they need to score from midrange"........

mm

Um, but that is what happened, st johns didnt get to the line, like i said, and they shoot horribly from 3pt range(note here that its not just like that shot badly, they shot HORRID, 20% is atrocious), which i said, and given that, they're only hope was to beat them down lo, which would be incredibly unlikely because that is where Uconn specializes. ANd then I said they'd win by 15 and they won by 12.

That is what a person says and when it happens it makes that comment smart.

I will gladly take my correct and accurate stat snapshot over anyone's "durrr, i dunno, can't say, we'll see, I'm a scout by the way!" anyday.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Marc Maggard]

Um, but that is what happened, st johns didnt get to the line, like i said, and they shoot horribly from 3pt range(note here that its not just like that shot badly, they shot HORRID, 20% is atrocious), which i said, and given that, they're only hope was to beat them down lo, which would be incredibly unlikely because that is where Uconn specializes. ANd then I said they'd win by 15 and they won by 12.

That is what a person says and when it happens it makes that comment smart.

I will gladly take my correct and accurate stat snapshot over anyone's "durrr, i dunno, can't say, we'll see, I'm a scout by the way!" anyday.

Thanks for playing.

Dude, your ridiculous. Why would you think that a team that shoots HORRIBLY from the FT line needs to get to the line a lot to win against UCONN???? that's just stupid.

And St. John's went 3-14..... had they hit ONE of those 11 misses, they would be exactly at their 3 point average, so it's not like they were more than one missed 3 off their "average".

Come on stat boy....stop sucking so hard.

Just admit that you didn't have a clue what was going to happen and you went to a website and started spouting off something stupid to sound smart.....:crazy:

mm