Bush Doing Unconstitutional Stuff?,

[therealUT]

I certainly salute and appreciate your service. I would say that you have had plenty of interaction with troops that have served in Iraq. If so, what do they think?

Most enlisted guys don't talk about the bigger picture of what is happening over there. In fact, most guys just don't talk about their feelings about it at all. Many share combat stories with each other, however, actually talking about the deeper implications is something that is very tough for any combat veteran to deal with. This leads to my biggest problem with the media today and a major cause of PTSD:

Commander, families, and society need to understand the soldier's desperate need for recognition and acceptance, his vulnerability, and his desperate need to be constantly reassured that what he did was right and necessary.

On Killing LTC Dave Grossman

Vietnam produced more psychiatric casualties than any other war in American history. Numerous pyschological studies have found that the social support system upon returning from combat is a critical factor in the veteran's psychological health. Indeed, social support after wars has been demonstrated in a large body of research to be more crucial than even the intensity of combat experienced. When the Vietnam War began to become unpopular the soldiers who were fighting that war began to payh a psychological price for it, even before they returned home.

Psychiatric casualties increase greatly when the soldier feels isolated, and psychological and social isolation from home and society was one of the results of the growing antiwar sentiment in the United States.

Early in the [Vietnam] war, evacuations for psychiatric conditions reached only 6 percent of total medical evacuations, but by 1971, the percentage had increased to 50 percent. These psychiatric casualty ratings were similar to home-front approval ratings for the war.

ibid

Do what you want with this information...

 

[therealUT]

Some of those 'secure' regions still see conditions worse than pre-war. Even in areas repeatedly stated as secure, infrastructure remains down. Sewer, water, power, phone, etc. are still down. Even in Baghdad conditions in many sections are worse than pre-war.

And why is intense fighting still going on? I thought 'mission accomplished', etc. had been achieved. You are saying that we still have not met those goals but yet we should have gone into Syria and Iran?

Baghdad is not 'secure.' Also, the conditions are not worse than pre-war in secure sections. You have to understand you are dealing with a country where a large percentage of the population has never had sewer and adequate water treatment facilities.

I am saying that our refusal to go into Syria and Iran in the beginning, coupled with our refusal to wage total war, is one of the reasons there is still intense conflict in 3 out of 19 sections in the country.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Maybe we could have actually unleashed our military and let us do what we do best: use overwhelming force to close with and destroy the enemy. Instead we are again fighting a war in which we are more concerned with minimizing civilian casualties than in destroying the enemy. Basically, the way we have fought, since Vietnam, goes against all the principles of waging war. I find the correlation between the Vietnam War being the first war we fought in which battlefield pictures and scenes war broadcast the very night of the battle to the US public, interesting to say the least. I honestly believe that we should revert to the WWII media policy, in which all pictures of a battle were not released to the public for, I believe, at least 2 years from the date of the battle.

Agreed....... :aggressive:

 

[smoke_em06]

Most enlisted guys don't talk about the bigger picture of what is happening over there. In fact, most guys just don't talk about their feelings about it at all. Many share combat stories with each other, however, actually talking about the deeper implications is something that is very tough for any combat veteran to deal with. This leads to my biggest problem with the media today and a major cause of PTSD:
Do what you want with this information...

I am sure that it is tough to talk about. The media should be banned from reporting on the war. CNN at least. All they do is drag down our troops and the families of those who serve.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

The media should be banned from reporting on the war. CNN at least. All they do is drag down our troops and the families of those who serve.

Regardless of political persuasion, you CANNOT, ban someone from reporting on the war. Free speech is a precious commodity.

Fox News has their slants also, how many times did they have a Fox News alert that weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq? Fox News wanted there to be WMD, its not like any media is free from this.

Military Censorship

 

[therealUT]

I am sure that it is tough to talk about. The media should be banned from reporting on the war. CNN at least. All they do is drag down our troops and the families of those who serve.

Not banned from reporting on it, however, people running various media outlets should at least be responsible in their reporting. I would suggest that the heads of CNN, FoxNews, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc., read On Killing and The Face of Battle, then they might have more understanding of the deep wounds caused by actually having to look down the barrel of a rifle and pull the trigger, knowing that you are destroying life on the other end.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

From the link I provided in the ariticle...

No photographs of American dead are released to the public for the first two years of World War II. In 1943 the ban on photographs of the dead is partially lifted in an attempt to galvanize public support for the war. Graphic photographs and pictures showing faces of the dead are still censored.

From Vietnam

In 1965 Lyndon Baines Johnson makes three attempts to convince officials to impose censorship on the press. Officials refuse, citing the impossibility of controlling a press corps of hundreds of people from multiple nations. General Westmoreland also wants more control over information, but his efforts to have censorship installed fail because war has not been officially declared.

War on Terror

Traditional censorship is not possible because stories can be transmitted electronically and instantaneously, so limiting access to the war is the government's method of limiting media coverage. The same tactic had been applied during the Gulf War.

 

[OWB]

I am sure that it is tough to talk about. The media should be banned from reporting on the war. CNN at least. All they do is drag down our troops and the families of those who serve.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I know you are being silly comparing Bush to those people, but your point is well taken.

You cannot take away freedom of the press.

 

[smoke_em06]

Not banned from reporting on it, however, people running various media outlets should at least be responsible in their reporting. I would suggest that the heads of CNN, FoxNews, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc., read On Killing and The Face of Battle, then they might have more understanding of the deep wounds caused by actually having to look down the barrel of a rifle and pull the trigger, knowing that you are destroying life on the other end.

I guess I went overboard on the whole ban thing, but I just get tired of the media bashing our efforts in Iraq.

 

[volinbham]

OWB You must have a hard drive full of those pictures. Mine is full of a different kind of picture :biggrin2:

 

[OWB]

You must have a hard drive full of those pictures. Mine is full of a different kind of picture :biggrin2:

I have some of those too, I just can't post them here. :angel:

 

[OrangeEmpire]

OWB You must have a hard drive full of those pictures. Mine is full of a different kind of picture

You supplied the picture of the clausen kid in speedo swimming underwear? :blink:

Referring to the a thread in the pub.

 

[OWB]

That was OTD wasn't it?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I guess I went overboard on the whole ban thing, but I just get tired of the media bashing our efforts in Iraq.

IT IS BEAUTIFUL WE ARE ALOUD TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.......truly! :air_kiss:

We are aloud to be negative, positive, indifferent.......FREEDOM BABY!

 

[Jasongivm6]

I am sure that it is tough to talk about. The media should be banned from reporting on the war. CNN at least. All they do is drag down our troops and the families of those who serve.

Did CNN make up that story about the the girl being raped and then killed, along with her family, by US troops?

Or did that really happen?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Did CNN make up that story about the the girl being raped and then killed, along with her family, by US troops?

Or did that really happen?

Terrible things happen, it should be reported.

Good things occur, schools, hospitals...etc...it should be reported.

 

[therealUT]

Did CNN make up that story about the the girl being raped and then killed, along with her family, by US troops?

Or did that really happen?

It probably happened, as it happens in every war. Soldiers are a sample of society.

 

[smoke_em06]

Terrible things happen, it should be reported.

Good things occur, schools, hospitals...etc...it should be reported.

Troops should not be bashed for serving our country. PERIOD!! They do not try to show all of the good things that are occuring in Iraq because of our presence.

 

[smoke_em06]

Did CNN make up that story about the the girl being raped and then killed, along with her family, by US troops?

Or did that really happen?

Under investigation

 

[OWB]

Under investigation

Which part? CNN making it up or the soldiers doing that?

 

[Jasongivm6]

Terrible things happen, it should be reported.

Good things occur, schools, hospitals...etc...it should be reported.

I agree. I was just referring to smoke telling us that "everything" CNN reports is to bring down the soldiers, their families, etc.

Not all news is "good" news. And if something terrible happens, it should be reported, regardless of being on the Bush wagon or Demywagon.

 

[smoke_em06]

Which part? CNN making it up or the soldiers doing that?

Soldiers doing that

 

[therealUT]

Troops should not be bashed for serving our country. PERIOD!! They do not try to show all of the good things that are occuring in Iraq because of our presence.

Troops that rape and massacre should be exposed for what they are: criminals! However, these actions by a few rogues, should in no way cause a mass generalization of US troops and should in no way be used to halt our efforts in Iraq.

 

[volinbham]

Did CNN make up that story about the the girl being raped and then killed, along with her family, by US troops?

Or did that really happen?

When's the last story you saw about the heroism of the troops. Even one anecdotal story about the brave or humane actions of a service member. They are happening much more frequently than the event you reference.

Again it is a matter of context.