Bush most unpopular President in modern history

#102
#102
truefan said:
Home ownership at record highs?????Better analyze that a little better. More foreclosures than ever too.More consumer debt than ever before. More debt that can't be paid off as well.And the real estate market is looking at a serious downtrend. Banks are beginning to tighten down, like never before, on mortgages. There is over 3 trillion in VM's due by end of summer. Unemployment figures are misleading at best. Many have had to take lesser jobs because their "chosen" profession were conducting massive layoffs
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no, no, no, no, no, no.


There are plently of forclosures, but the overwhelming majority of those are on homes bought for investment purposes, not primary residences. The consumer debt numbers are wrong. They don't count your home equity as savings, but do count your mortgage as debt, which is ridiculous. Include home equity and americans are richer on average than ever before. And there haven't been massive layoffs. Those who can't find a job in this economy are either stupid or aren't trying.
 
#104
#104
allvol123 said:
Actually it is legitimate. They have enough money to live, but can't make a few hundred mile journey inland?
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the majority of people who didn't leave, didn't leave because their entire lives they have seen hurricanes and didn't take it seriously.
 
#106
#106
droski said:
the majority of people who didn't leave, didn't leave because their entire lives they have seen hurricanes and didn't take it seariously.
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Oh, I thought it was because they were too poor to travel a few hundred miles and because Bush had them tied down.
 
#112
#112
droski said:
I don't approve of the job the president is doing. Frankly i think he has made many stupid stupid mistakes. I still wouldn't rather have kerry or hillary as president.
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agreed, but my disapproval is steeped in lack of fiscal control, not foreign policy
 
#114
#114
truefan said:
Home ownership at record highs?????Better analyze that a little better. More foreclosures than ever too.More consumer debt than ever before. More debt that can't be paid off as well.And the real estate market is looking at a serious downtrend. Banks are beginning to tighten down, like never before, on mortgages. There is over 3 trillion in VM's due by end of summer. Unemployment figures are misleading at best. Many have had to take lesser jobs because their "chosen" profession were conducting massive layoffs
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This is a great post. Sounds like the NYT talking points for the misguided horrible economy argument.
 
#115
#115
allvol123 said:
Actually it is legitimate. They have enough money to live, but can't make a few hundred mile journey inland?
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Some poor people did't own cars and used public transportation. Others like policemen, doctors, and nurses had to stay behind to care of their patients, prisoners, etc. What was suppose to happen to those people? Collateral damage?
 
#116
#116
droski said:
he obviously screwed up the iraq situation horribly. the spending is out of control though.
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how did he "screw up" the Iraq situation, IYO?

IMO, he botched it by reducing force levels too soon, but did so in the face of withering pressure stateside.
 
#117
#117
oklavol said:
Some poor people did't own cars and used public transportation. Others like policemen, doctors, and nurses had to stay behind to care of their patients, prisoners, etc. What was suppose to happen to those people? Collateral damage?
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And that's the big mistake? No follow on plan for the emergency personnel and poor people couldn't get a ride out of town. Both are weak, at best.
 
#118
#118
oklavol said:
Some poor people did't own cars and used public transportation. Others like policemen, doctors, and nurses had to stay behind to care of their patients, prisoners, etc. What was suppose to happen to those people? Collateral damage?
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remember those 400 school buses that were under water? Mayor Nagin had the power to use those buses to evacuate residents.
 
#119
#119
BigPapaVol said:
And that's the big mistake? No follow on plan for the emergency personnel and poor people couldn't get a ride out of town. Both are weak, at best.
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The mistakes were made by the LA lawmakers with the fed gov't forced to play catch-up. Then the residents also re-elected the morons.
 
#120
#120
Blaming FEMA was a perfect political storm because FEMA could not have said anything to change public perception. Large scale tragedies need scapegoats, and FEMA was a perfect fit.
 
#121
#121
BigPapaVol said:
This is a great post. Sounds like the NYT talking points for the misguided horrible economy argument.
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I didn't say the econmy was horrible. The economy has been very good. I was just replying to the home ownership comment and how it is terribly misleading. I guess far right wingers like you think it is a good thing for more people than ever to be in debt. Borrow, borrow, borrow.....it is what created the S&L crisis in the late '80s. Oh yeah, the massive dereg that was going on helped too
 
#122
#122
truefan said:
I didn't say the econmy was horrible. The economy has been very good. I was just replying to the home ownership comment and how it is terribly misleading. I guess far right wingers like you think it is a good thing for more people than ever to be in debt. Borrow, borrow, borrow.....it is what created the S&L crisis in the late '80s. Oh yeah, the massive dereg that was going on helped too
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Home ownership is at an all time high, and that is very largely due to financial wizardry in CDOs. People are in homes they shouldn't be in, no doubt about it. Home ownership is the one way for the vast majority of Americans to ever build any wealth, and strong home ownership numbers are reflective of the wealth being built here. Debt is not the insideous beast you imply. Debt is a very strong tool for building wealth as well, when used appropriately. Lack of self discipline and debt should not mix, yet they do via substandard credit market. Those companies make it work. US citizens keeping up with the Joneses is the driver of the problem, not economic policy. My leanings are very likely more centrist than you would want to believe. The SNL crisis was a deregulation issue, poor underwriting, and the SNL runup game scam. Had little to do with out of control borrowing. I suspect that I am more centrist than you would ever believe, but regarding national fiscal policy, I am conservative as they come.
 
#123
#123
truefan said:
I didn't say the econmy was horrible. The economy has been very good. I was just replying to the home ownership comment and how it is terribly misleading. I guess far right wingers like you think it is a good thing for more people than ever to be in debt. Borrow, borrow, borrow.....it is what created the S&L crisis in the late '80s. Oh yeah, the massive dereg that was going on helped too
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It's an investment. do you not have a mortgage? I assume there is a reason for this? The percentage of people on interest only loans with little equity is very very small (less than 5%). EVERY study has shown that there is FAR more home equity in this country than home debt. That's why these debt numbers are misleading. Any study that puts those owning a home in a worse light (all things being equal) than those not owning a home (even if they have more equity in the home than debt) is a useless study IMO. edit: once again the reason why personal debt is at an all time high is BECAUSE home ownership is at a all time high.
 
#124
#124
BigPapaVol said:
Home ownership is at an all time high, and that is very largely due to financial wizardry in CDOs. People are in homes they shouldn't be in, no doubt about it. Home ownership is the one way for the vast majority of Americans to ever build any wealth, and strong home ownership numbers are reflective of the wealth being built here. Debt is not the insideous beast you imply. Debt is a very strong tool for building wealth as well, when used appropriately. Lack of self discipline and debt should not mix, yet they do via substandard credit market. Those companies make it work. US citizens keeping up with the Joneses is the driver of the problem, not economic policy. My leanings are very likely more centrist than you would want to believe. The SNL crisis was a deregulation issue, poor underwriting, and the SNL runup game scam. Had little to do with out of control borrowing. I suspect that I am more centrist than you would ever believe, but regarding national fiscal policy, I am conservative as they come.
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You are exactly right about most of the people living above their means are just trying to keep up with the "jones" of the world. I realize that it has very little to do with the economic policy of this administration;however, it is has been very easy to get credit the last few years.
 
#125
#125
droski said:
It's an investment. do you not have a mortgage? I assume there is a reason for this? The percentage of people on interest only loans with little equity is very very small (less than 5%). EVERY study has shown that there is FAR more home equity in this country than home debt. That's why these debt numbers are misleading. Any study that puts those owning a home in a worse light (all things being equal) than those not owning a home (even if they have more equity in the home than debt) is a useless study IMO. edit: once again the reason why personal debt is at an all time high is BECAUSE home ownership is at a all time high.
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I was misleading in my post. I didn't mean to say owning a home wasn't a good thing.....it is an investment. No, I do not have a mortgage, but do own my home.....I am very fortunate. One reason their is more home equity than home debt is because the value of real estate has gone up drastically the last 15 years; that is about to change. Values are going down, it is inevitable and a trend has already started in some of the major US markets
 
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