Butch Jones bracelet Bible verse

[KoachKletus]

Or better yet, please explain why ALL humans so closely resemble the ape species? Please explain why all humans so closely resemble avian creatures, bovine, equine, etc. Easy and logical answer is evolution. There is no specific straightline branch to the evolutionary tree, but millions of branches that kept evolving into the present day human form. And it took millions of years. That is logical. The theologian theory just does not stand up.

BTW, full fledged atheist I am. I harbor no ill will to those that wish follow any particular faith. It is a choice. I choose to believe in the real and tangible side of life. I don't succumb to worship death or fear a so called hell. Live good. Live right. That is what religions should teach. Not fear.

 

[BennisDrewer]

Hey guys...are we still talking about stone cold in here?!

 

[KoachKletus]

Hey guys...are we still talking about stone cold in here?!

Yup. Who's the guy in the wheelchair?

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Lumpy video. Ask yourself one question - If not for evolution, why do you think that a vast majority of mammals - possess the same traits as humans? Nose, mouth, 4 limbs, brain, vertabrae, etc., mothers milk, etc. Male & female,etc. If not for evolution, please explain in scientific, empirical terms how evolution is a fluke. I'll hang up and listen.

Duh! That's easy....cause both my High School and College Professor said so?! lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:

I already gave you more than plenty of historical, verifiable evidence. Your best retort is about Humans having some similar features as other mammals. So, you're saying there is no SIMILARITY between any classic artist or writers CREATIONS? Huh? Why would a creator NOT use some of the same physical traits in other species. How does similarities provide OBSERVABLE SCIENTIFIC evidence of Evolution?

Even Darwin himself stated that if there were never found fossil records of transitional life forms between kinds (Humans, fish, birds, reptiles, etc), that his theory would collapse. To this day there is no such evidence, yet you and those in your camp insist your position is SCIENCE.

Evolution is the Santa Claus of our day. It's SCIENCE...if you just believe!!!

As for empirical evidence for Creation. Well, I'd be glad to share it....but the problem here is, it's not my burden to prove. You're the one making the bold claim the Evolution is an established FACT and is real SCIENCE. Yet you don't know a lick of it. You couldn't provide an ounce of proof if your life depended on it. Actually, it does.

Why I Believe in Creation, Part 1 - Listen to Chip Ingram from Living on the Edge

 

[Give_All_Vol]

Duh! That's easy....cause both my High School and College Professor said so?! lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:
QUOTE]

You didn't happen to go to high school before the Scopes Monkey Trial did you? hehe

Just kidding man. But it is pretty commonly taught in both HS and college now

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Or better yet, please explain why ALL humans so closely resemble the ape species? Please explain why all humans so closely resemble avian creatures, bovine, equine, etc. Easy and logical answer is evolution. There is no specific straightline branch to the evolutionary tree, but millions of branches that kept evolving into the present day human form. And it took millions of years. That is logical. The theologian theory just does not stand up.

BTW, full fledged atheist I am. I harbor no ill will to those that wish follow any particular faith. It is a choice. I choose to believe in the real and tangible side of life. I don't succumb to worship death or fear a so called hell. Live good. Live right. That is what religions should teach. Not fear.

This right here is clear evidence....that you really don't have a clue. For every remote similarity there may be between a Human and Ape, there is at least one DISsimilarity.

Take the anatomical proportions, for example. Totally BACKWARDS. Humans have longer legs, they have shorter. They have longer arms; we have shorter. Their torso is much longer in proportion to humans....this is why they walk on fours. They can walk on their hind legs for short distances, but it's no different than a human doing a handstand and walking with their hands only for a short distance. It's not their natural posture.

Their body is 80-90% covered in hair. Ours is the reverse. Less than 10% in most cases. Their skulls are shaped dramatically different. Their jaw juts out, ours stays in. They have practically no nose bone or cartilage, ours does. Their skin is very rough, coarse and wrinkled. Ours is mostly smooth. We could do this all day. So, just by pointing to the closest species to humans as proof, is no proof at all.

A few similarities between species in no way discounts or precludes the idea that an Intelligent Designer was involved. What artist, writer, actor, engineer, etc....DOESN"T exhibit SIMILAR traits in their work?

I took (medical) anatomy in college and it really opened my eyes to the absolute marvel the human body is. It's pure genius. One example isn't pretty, but it's a good one. The bladder and rectum have two sets of sphincter muscles. One is Voluntary and the other involuntary. That CANNOT be chance or a product of an organism "evolving." It's like an anatomical inner and outer hatch. It HAS to be designed that way. That's how you keep from messing your pants....you know, like after you get schooled on the myth of evolution (drum-roll.....splash!)

There are too many examples within the human body alone, that clearly points to an Intelligent Creator...not random processes. Just because an automobile is PROGRAMMED/DESIGNED to automate/adapt to varying conditions with many features (like air conditioning, cruise control, automatically adjusting suspension or brake controls, etc.), that automation/adaptability is NOT evidence the automobile EVOLVED over millions of years. :loco: Instead, it's EVIDENCE there was an intelligent engineer behind it's development/creation....even though you never see that engineer

 

[VOLorNuttin]

I don't think most Christians believe there is a hell where you sizzle like a steak for eternity. It's just a minority of Christians who take their beliefs to the extreme. Scare tactics designed to get the flock in line.

Scare tactics? Only someone who doesn't read the Bible would say that. Was Jesus himself using "SCARE TACTICS" then, when he often spoke about the torments of hell? He even told the Pharisees to their faces that they were going to be cast into hell, while others the Pharisees thought unworthy of God's Kingdom, would indeed enter it.

They don't understand that loving the Lord is enough.

You above all here should be very, very scared...because your version of god doesn't exist. You've made one up in your mind that suits you. It certainly isn't the one in the Bible, that's for sure.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’- Matthew 7:21

Read Matthew Ch. 13 and 25, and John Ch 15
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/Matt.13
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/Matt.25
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/John.15

Jesus was very, very stern and very clear in His admonitions, throughout those chapters and the rest of the Gospels. As much as he showed Love and Compassion, during his ministry, he also conveyed a serious message, too.

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many." Matthew 7:13

 

[Give_All_Vol]

Scare tactics? Only someone who doesn't read the Bible would say that. Was Jesus himself using "SCARE TACTICS" then, when he often spoke about the torments of hell? He even told the Pharisees to their faces that they were going to be cast into hell, while others the Pharisees thought unworthy of God's Kingdom, would indeed enter it.

You above all here should be very, very scared...because your version of god doesn't exist. You've made one up in your mind that suits you. It certainly isn't the one in the Bible, that's for sure.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’- Matthew 7:21

Read Matthew Ch. 13 and 25, and John Ch 15
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/Matt.13
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/Matt.25
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/John.15

Jesus was very, very stern and very clear in His admonitions, throughout those chapters and the rest of the Gospels. As much as he showed Love and Compassion, during his ministry, he also conveyed a serious message, too.

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many." Matthew 7:13

If you really want as many people as possible to live good Christian lives, do yourself a favor and don't try to convince anyone. You would be doing a much greater service than you are doing now. You go about it entirely the wrong way. And are acting like the epitome of what turns people away.

Try using it to make people feel good, not grind them down. Most people aren't going to respond to the things you're saying very well.

 

[BigTCountry]

Scare tactics? Only someone who doesn't read the Bible would say that. Was Jesus himself using "SCARE TACTICS" then, when he often spoke about the torments of hell? He even told the Pharisees to their faces that they were going to be cast into hell, while others the Pharisees thought unworthy of God's Kingdom, would indeed enter it.

You above all here should be very, very scared...because your version of god doesn't exist. You've made one up in your mind that suits you. It certainly isn't the one in the Bible, that's for sure.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’- Matthew 7:21

Read Matthew Ch. 13 and 25, and John Ch 15
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/Matt.13
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/Matt.25
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/John.15

Jesus was very, very stern and very clear in His admonitions, throughout those chapters and the rest of the Gospels. As much as he showed Love and Compassion, during his ministry, he also conveyed a serious message, too.

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many." Matthew 7:13

:good!: Job well done, guy. It's great to have a loving God that didnt want us to be robots and not have a choice between right and wrong.. He being Lord, knows we will all make mistakes, but also, when you know him you will have conviction from those ways and realize this isnt right and repent. God doesnt just bound all wrongdoers to hell, so you never have to say that to anyone. But he does expect a faithful relationship from you. Glad to see your enlightening post this morning.

Also, I beleive I have seen a very good point on here this morning.. Where are the fossils in the transitional period between ape and man or fish and bird or dog and human? Why beleive in something that you have nothing to go on. I encourage you to look into history Jesus was alive on earth and there are many references to him in the bible and other books.

Why are humans the only kind that has been able to gain knowledge, communicate forgiveness/love, have feelings, make decisions based on morals not instincts, build skyscrapers. Why doesnt other animals show ability to do so. It would seem to me that the human race has been appointed and risen to a much much much non comparable higher standard.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

If you really want as many people as possible to live good Christian lives, do yourself a favor and don't try to convince anyone. You would be doing a much greater service than you are doing now. You go about it entirely the wrong way. And are acting like the epitome of what turns people away.

Try using it to make people feel good, not grind them down. Most people aren't going to respond to the things you're saying very well.

Early on, I just mentioned a common question atheists would ask, and gave a cogent response. Others have taken that response and perpetuated the debate by claiming there is no such thing as hell or eternal torment.

It's not "popular" to dispel such notions. When Jesus Himself gave such serious admonitions, it wasn't popular then, either. Especially not to the Pharisees who were trying to trip Him up in something. Everything can't be cupcakes and coca-cola. Just like the passage in Ecclesiastes (Ch.3)...there is a time for love and a time for hate. A time for war and a time for peace

https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/Eccl.3

 

[Give_All_Vol]

Early on, I just mentioned a common question atheists would ask, and gave a cogent response. Others have taken that response and perpetuated the debate by claiming there is no such thing as hell or eternal torment.

It's not "popular" to dispel such notions. When Jesus Himself gave such serious admonitions, it wasn't popular then, either. Especially not to the Pharisees who were trying to trip Him up in something. Everything can't be cupcakes and coca-cola. Just like the passage in Ecclesiastes (Ch.3)...there is a time for love and a time for hate. A time for war and a time for peace

https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/Eccl.3

Perhaps the time for it isn't on a public forum where tons of people that have not or are not quite sure about how to build a loving relationship with God may see it? It makes a lot of sense to make people comfortable before digging into the more uncomfortable parts

 

[sjt18]

The creation/evolution debate cannot even be reasonably argued until you deal with the fact that BOTH are based on un-falsifiable and unobservable assumptions... and are therefore not "scientific" in the way "modern science" typically defines it. If you don't at least acknowledge and respect metaphysics... you will always be two trains passing in the night. By and large, it is the evolutionist who does not want to deal with this part of the debate. He DEMANDS that the creationist FIRST accept HIS assumptions about the nature of reality.

There are 3 basic assumptions about reality. Naturalism/materialism, supernaturalism, and spiritualism.

Materialism assumes that all that is "real" are the things you can measure or could have measured or will be able to measure. Anything that seems to be immaterial is in reality nothing more than a product of material processes we have yet to understand. If you make this assumption (and especially if you have let someone else make it for you and therefore see it as a basic truth of life) then the notion of a deity involved in creation is absurd.

Spiritualists assume that the only thing that is real is the immaterial. What we perceive as material or natural is a product of a collective conscience. That's why you'll find some popular teachers declaring that your thoughts recreate your reality. If you make this assumption then it really doesn't matter very much how or whether a deity was involved in creation. In fact, if the expression of the collective conscience changed from believing in creation to believing in evolution... reality would change too.

Supernaturalists assume that both the immaterial or spiritual and the material are real... and interconnected. If you accept this premise then it isn't really a matter of whether it is reasonable to assume God was involved... just a question of how.

I am of course the latter. Not only that, I believe in a God that is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. That makes Him plenty big enough to create the universe any way He chose.


This debate is almost always spoiled by evolutionists who refuse to respect the metaphysical assumptions of those who disagree with them. Evolution is purposefully designed to answer questions about the world we live in and natural history based on a pure materialist premise. If you accept that premise, many of the explanations will seem reasonable. If you accept that an intelligent force was involved... there are often answers that are far less strained.

 

[sjt18]

You do know that Evolution is Scientific Fact not faith. The evidence is irrefutable at this point.

Evolution is not fact. It is indeed faith... and even the best thinkers in evolution and the philosophy of science agree with that.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Perhaps the time for it isn't on a public forum where tons of people that have not or are not quite sure about how to build a loving relationship with God may see it? It makes a lot of since to make people comfortable before digging into the more uncomfortable parts

Paul said the weapons of our WARFARE are not carnal...to demolish strongholds (in this case, that would be the deceit behind Evolution and non-biblical thought constructs)...demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God --2 Corinthians 10:4,5
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/2Cor.10.4

Agreed, that this isn't the platform for such a debate, but a harmless reference to Coach Jones bracelet ends up in a bar fight because atheists simply can't help themselves.

 

[sjt18]

I find it interesting that the command found at Gen 2:16-17carried no such warning of eternal torment in hellfire.

Would you not expect a God of love (1 John 4:8) to give an accurate warning of the full consequences of disobediance ?

I'm perfectly fine with God giving whatever warning He chose to give in whatever way He chose to give it. The Bible gives mostly a historical overview prior to the flood. There are cross references that we can target as affirmations of later texts but not a great deal recorded of God's commands to people of that time.

If you accept the simplistic calculations of Rev Ussher then you still have 2000-2500 years covered in 6 chapters of text. IMO, the period between the fall and flood was considerably longer. His calculations though widely accepted are pretty likely to be flawed from a biblical standpoint. I believe no less than about 6000 years but likely no more than 20,000. I believe Hugh Ross of the Discovery Institute believes he can make a sound biblical and scientific case for about 100,000 years.

I would suspect that "preachers" during that period gave a much more full message than what we have recorded. For all I know they had recorded scripture that was washed away with the flood or kept scripture as a verbal tradition like sub-saharan tribes once did with histories and scriptures.

 

[Give_All_Vol]

Paul said the weapons of our WARFARE are not carnal...to demolish strongholds (in this case, that would be the deceit behind Evolution and non-biblical thought constructs)...demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God --2 Corinthians 10:4,5
https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/mclean/niv/2Cor.10.4

Agreed, that this isn't the platform for such a debate, but a harmless reference to Coach Jones bracelet ends up in a bar fight because atheists simply can't help themselves.

Absolutely agree that this thread was blown way out of line by a couple of posters that were looking to get a rise. Nothing at all is right about doing that either.

It's pretty simple really. Everyone has heard that "If you don't have anything nice to say, say nothing at all" and the golden rule "Do onto others as you would like done onto you." And you don't even need to be of any faith to be able to live up to these simple guidelines lol

 

[sjt18]

It is the Theory of Evolution just as its the Theory of Gravity or the Theory of Relativity.

Really? Operational science has performed experiments that while not direct proofs of the latter two.. are consistently consistent.

Evolution has YET to produce a repeatable/falsfiable mechanism for the acquisition of the genetic complexity and diversity we see in the world. Mutations simply don't get you amoeba to man evolution. In fact, genomes are de-volving... not evolving. The accumulation of mutations and deletions are not leading to a more robust form of man... or a new higher stage of evolution. The trajectory points to eventual extinction. Each generation will add 100 new mutations to its blood line. Most do not have an immediately noticeable expression. Almost ALL will accumulate into a defect of some sort in a future generation.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method, and repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation.

There are plenty of reasonable explanations for the evidence if you don't limit what is "reasonable" with an assumption of materialism. The explanations of evidence you THINK you have probably aren't nearly as sound or clear as you've been taught. "Lucy" for instance is still displayed with human like feet... though later digs in the area where she was found discovered that the species had ape-like feet. The whole species fits neatly... and obviously with apes. The only reason to think it was a transitional species... is because you need one to make your theory work.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

My favorite question to ask creationists is, "how old you think the earth is?"


Its fun to see them get all squirmy trying to shred EVERY piece of scientific fact that say this earth was here long before the bible says it was.

 

[sjt18]

My favorite question to ask creationists is, "how old you think the earth is?"


Its fun to see them get all squirmy trying to shred EVERY piece of scientific fact that say this earth was here long before the bible says it was.

There are no scientific facts that "say" that. There are interpretations of evidence based largely on the ASSUMPTIONS of evolutionists that say that.

And if you need a case study, look at Mount St Helens. Scientists made many assumptions based on evolutionary models about the recovery rate of the area... things they thought would take 100 years... took months.


BTW, radioisotope dating is NOT sound proof of age. Assumptions are still made about the mother/daughter ratio at the creation of the sample. Those assumptions will usually be based on the strata where the sample was collected... then when dated... will be used as proof of the age of the strata. Circular reasoning at its finest.

 

[UT Hill Man]

Scare tactics? Only someone who doesn't read the Bible would say that. Was Jesus himself using "SCARE TACTICS" then, when he often spoke about the torments of hell? He even told the Pharisees to their faces that they were going to be cast into hell, while others the Pharisees thought unworthy of God's Kingdom, would indeed enter it.

It takes a tremendous leap to equate Jesus saying the "path to destruction is wide" with this notion that there is eternal, fire torture. If you have a more clear scripture of Jesus talking about Hell I wish you could produce it for the rest of us. Give me actual quoted scripture, not a your paraphrased opinion of what he said.

You above all here should be very, very scared...because your version of god doesn't exist. You've made one up in your mind that suits you. It certainly isn't the one in the Bible, that's for sure.

As a Christian, I find your bossy, self righteous blather rather off-putting. Our Lord had a message of love and that's what I choose to follow.

There are no scientific facts that "say" that.

I think Johnny Cochran said the same thing back in '94:ermm:

You can believe in the Lord and not be a science denier.

 

[Slydell]

It appears that science was invented to refute all the evidence of an invisible guy up in the clouds. Just basing this assumption off some posts. It's a freakin' conspiracy.

 

[American_PitVol]

Reading all of these quotes strengthens my stance that religion should have no place in Politics or Government on any level. Regardless of what God they pray to...Christian, Muslim, whatever...there is no compromise with the hardliners. How in the hell did this thread veer this far off course. Dayum. GBO GO VOLS GO BIG ARNJ!!!

 

[kiddiedoc]

You do know that Evolution is Scientific Fact not faith. The evidence is irrefutable at this point.

As a man of science, I can assure you that your statement is far from the truth. In the century and a half since Darwin wrote the Origin of Species, there has been little to no evidence found to support much of his theory and a great deal that refutes it.

 

[kiddiedoc]

This right here is clear evidence....that you really don't have a clue. For every remote similarity there may be between a Human and Ape, there is at least one DISsimilarity.

Take the anatomical proportions, for example. Totally BACKWARDS. Humans have longer legs, they have shorter. They have longer arms; we have shorter. Their torso is much longer in proportion to humans....this is why they walk on fours. They can walk on their hind legs for short distances, but it's no different than a human doing a handstand and walking with their hands only for a short distance. It's not their natural posture.

Their body is 80-90% covered in hair. Ours is the reverse. Less than 10% in most cases. Their skulls are shaped dramatically different. Their jaw juts out, ours stays in. They have practically no nose bone or cartilage, ours does. Their skin is very rough, coarse and wrinkled. Ours is mostly smooth. We could do this all day. So, just by pointing to the closest species to humans as proof, is no proof at all.

A few similarities between species in no way discounts or precludes the idea that an Intelligent Designer was involved. What artist, writer, actor, engineer, etc....DOESN"T exhibit SIMILAR traits in their work?

I took (medical) anatomy in college and it really opened my eyes to the absolute marvel the human body is. It's pure genius. One example isn't pretty, but it's a good one. The bladder and rectum have two sets of sphincter muscles. One is Voluntary and the other involuntary. That CANNOT be chance or a product of an organism "evolving." It's like an anatomical inner and outer hatch. It HAS to be designed that way. That's how you keep from messing your pants....you know, like after you get schooled on the myth of evolution (drum-roll.....splash!)

There are too many examples within the human body alone, that clearly points to an Intelligent Creator...not random processes. Just because an automobile is PROGRAMMED/DESIGNED to automate/adapt to varying conditions with many features (like air conditioning, cruise control, automatically adjusting suspension or brake controls, etc.), that automation/adaptability is NOT evidence the automobile EVOLVED over millions of years. :loco: Instead, it's EVIDENCE there was an intelligent engineer behind it's development/creation....even though you never see that engineer

Well spoken. The cell itself is an impossible phenomenon to explain via evolution. All parts are interdependent on the others and could not come to exist slowly over millions of years.

 

[Slydell]

Or, by magic.