Butch Jones embraces team chaplain Tim Miller

[bray2milton]

Jimmy Swaggert. Jim Baker. Robert Tilton. Benny Hinn. Can someone explain what these, very famous, religious mouth pieces have in common?

 

[sjt18]

The thing is I do not care what the christians do. I have found that those who are christians have a hard time keeping that to themselves.

I'm glad that's your experience. That is exactly the kind of evidence the NT says we should look for in someone who has experienced spiritual rebirth.

If you got a great job, would you hide it from your friends? If you fell in love, would you try to hide your relationship from everyone?

They want you to know it and you to believe too.

Precisely. Christians believe that a holy God cared enough to take on flesh and die for us... to save us from greater wrath than any human could ever imagine.

I don't jive with religion in schools.

Then you should support vouchers so that neither my "religion" nor your view of religion can be imposed on anyone else. Agree?

I don't jive with the the phrase "have a blessed day". I see it as weakness. But if you get by everyday on it and it makes you feel better then good for you. To me its the greatest lie in human history.

That is your prerogative. As I mentioned earlier, God made you a free moral agent. If we're right then you will die one day and face him as someone who was a willful rebel and enemy of the One who created you.

A few hundred years ago, Jonathan Edwards wrote "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God". It would be worth your time to read a copy.

 

[Kristy*]

Have you tried walking on water lately? Give it a shot and let me know how it goes.

Why should I be able to walk on water? Why does this discussion cause you so much anger?

 

[bray2milton]

I'm glad that's your experience. That is exactly the kind of evidence the NT says we should look for in someone who has experienced spiritual rebirth.

If you got a great job, would you hide it from your friends? If you fell in love, would you try to hide your relationship from everyone?

Precisely. Christians believe that a holy God cared enough to take on flesh and die for us... to save us from greater wrath than any human could ever imagine.

Then you should support vouchers so that neither my "religion" nor your view of religion can be imposed on anyone else. Agree?



That is your prerogative. As I mentioned earlier, God made you a free moral agent. If we're right then you will die one day and face him as someone who was a willful rebel and enemy of the One who created you.

A few hundred years ago, Jonathan Edwards wrote "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God". It would be worth your time to read a copy.

I will concede one thing to you bro, you are consistent and persistent. Can we agree to disagree so we can agree on something?

 

[bray2milton]

Why should I be able to walk on water? Why does this discussion cause you so much anger?

Not anger. Just would be a cool magic trick. Anger? Lol I thought I was the liberal.

 

[sjt18]

Jimmy Swaggert. Jim Baker. Robert Tilton. Benny Hinn. Can someone explain what these, very famous, religious mouth pieces have in common?

Would you like the detailed answer or the summary?

To start... They are peddlers of religion...2 Corinthians 2:17

They bear numerous marks of the false teachers that had already arisen before the NT was even completed: 2 Peter 2:1-3 and others.

You can also look at the biblical examples of those that God used as these men claim to be used. Paul gave up wealth, fame, and power to be a missionary. He had trained in the right schools to be a leader. He was unique as a Jew in that he had Roman citizenship. Instead, he was persecuted and eventually died for the faith... penniless.

Jesus died and the soldiers gambled over the only thing of worth that He owned.

John was imprisoned on Patmos and old man. Their prisons didn't have clean sheets or cable tv.

Peter never went back to his fishing business. He and his wife are said to have died in Rome.

NONE of the great saints of the NT became rich. Many left their homes and never reclaimed them. They gave up practically everything in terms of earthly wealth.

Does that compare at all to the false preachers in your list?

I assure you that no matter how repulsive they seem to you... they're 100 times more so to followers of Jesus Christ.

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

Why should I be able to walk on water? Why does this discussion cause you so much anger?

Some of us have been judged for our beliefs in the past. I myself was kicked out of my mother's house in high school bc my beliefs were different. When you tell someone you're atheist, bc they may bring up religion, you get this really shocked and frightened look by some people like you aren't normal or something and sometimes you're judged right then and there by them. Or I've been called devil worshipper, evil, etc. It's a soft spot for some people

 

[sjt18]

I will concede one thing to you bro, you are consistent and persistent. Can we agree to disagree so we can agree on something?

I thought we already had? I'm just having a conversation with you and enjoying it. Do I think you should investigate Christianity further? Sure. Will I and am I trying to convince you to? You bet. But I would NEVER try to use any form of force against you.

ANY conversion forced upon someone by someone else... is not a biblical conversion.

 

[bray2milton]

Would you like the detailed answer or the summary?

To start... They are peddlers of religion...2 Corinthians 2:17

They bear numerous marks of the false teachers that had already arisen before the NT was even completed: 2 Peter 2:1-3 and others.

You can also look at the biblical examples of those that God used as these men claim to be used. Paul gave up wealth, fame, and power to be a missionary. He had trained in the right schools to be a leader. He was unique as a Jew in that he had Roman citizenship. Instead, he was persecuted and eventually died for the faith... penniless.

Jesus died and the soldiers gambled over the only thing of worth that He owned.

John was imprisoned on Patmos and old man. Their prisons didn't have clean sheets or cable tv.

Peter never went back to his fishing business. He and his wife are said to have died in Rome.

NONE of the great saints of the NT became rich. Many left their homes and never reclaimed them. They gave up practically everything in terms of earthly wealth.

Does that compare at all to the false preachers in your list?

I assure you that no matter how repulsive they seem to you... they're 100 times more so to followers of Jesus Christ.

I am not so sure. Do you "forgive them"?

 

[jakez4ut]

Originally Posted by volfan102455 View Post
I suspect if the article was written with references related to Mr. Miller's faith and church removed and focused only on the positive culture he had instilled without calling attention to the fact that he is a Christian - those of you who are offended would not be so.

The key message is that a good man takes the time to reach out to young college students in a time when their life could go in many different directions. And we have a coaching staff who cares enough about those young men to understand the importance of that.

Those of you who have any problem with this because of someone's faith need to get over yourself.

:thumbsup:

 

[sjt18]

Some of us have been judged for our beliefs in the past. I myself was kicked out of my mother's house in high school bc my beliefs were different. When you tell someone you're atheist, bc they may bring up religion, you get this really shocked and frightened look by some people like you aren't normal or something and sometimes you're judged right then and there by them. Or I've been called devil worshipper, evil, etc. It's a soft spot for some people

Sadly there's truth here. I'm not sure about the circumstances in you being kicked out of your home but I'm sorry that it happened.

Most of the "shock" you see is genuine fear. Not of you but the same kind of fear you feel when you skipped the reading assignment intending to catch it up later then walk into class to a pop quiz.

They don't prepare themselves so their responses vary between the extremes of flight and fight.

For a thinker like yourself, someone like Ravi Zacharias, Josh McDowell, Greg Koukl, or Lee Stroebel would give you something to chew on. At the very least, you would have a much better idea of what you don't believe in.

 

[jakez4ut]

Because he stated a opinion he holds about religion. Amirite? And it is not your shared opinion. Amirite?

very little about religion in his posts.

 

[bray2milton]

:thumbsup:

That quote in itself is very understandable. Some of the comments in this thread lend to a double standard in that you say I don't believe and the masses become very up- tight and in a word become very holy.

 

[sjt18]

I am not so sure. Do you "forgive them"?

In what sense?

According to Matthew 18, I should treat them like unbelievers. Which is to say I should be willing to confront them with God's Word in love and stand willing always to reconcile.

However I cannot "forgive them" in the sense of showing tolerance or assent to what they're saying or doing. Some of the harshest condemnation in the NT doesn't come against gross sinners... but false teachers.

Like you've shown us, they hurt the testimony of Christ and Christians.

 

[jakez4ut]

Nut cakes. Maybe. But that is your opinion.

would you have a similar reaction as you've had to this thread if you were being told to being told you now have to refer to me as "ze" to satisfy my own personal need for my version of equality?

your walk on water comments etc... are unwarranted. all i've seen happen, with the exception of a few that have posted some stuff i don't necesasrily agree with either, is people sharing why they believe the way they do, and supporting their stance with some well founded information, that if for no other purpose may give you some insight in to something you apparently know very little about.

if nothing else, call it a learning opportunity if it offers no other value.

 

[bray2milton]

In what sense?

According to Matthew 18, I should treat them like unbelievers. Which is to say I should be willing to confront them with God's Word in love and stand willing always to reconcile.

However I cannot "forgive them" in the sense of showing tolerance or assent to what they're saying or doing. Some of the harshest condemnation in the NT doesn't come against gross sinners... but false teachers.

Like you've shown us, they hurt the testimony of Christ and Christians.

Soo, That is a no?

 

[Kristy*]

Some of us have been judged for our beliefs in the past. I myself was kicked out of my mother's house in high school bc my beliefs were different. When you tell someone you're atheist, bc they may bring up religion, you get this really shocked and frightened look by some people like you aren't normal or something and sometimes you're judged right then and there by them. Or I've been called devil worshipper, evil, etc. It's a soft spot for some people

I'm am sorry you were kicked out of your house at a young age. Although I don't know your circumstances, I don't see how that could be justifiable or beneficial to a teenager.

I have family and friends who are non-believers. It should be my goal to love them as much or more and to try to be a good example for them. I do not condemn.

 

[jakez4ut]

That quote in itself is very understandable. Some of the comments in this thread lend to a double standard in that you say I don't believe and the masses become very up- tight and in a word become very holy.

you're not helping matters. many, if not most, of your posts have been extreemely condescending, and most have been unprovoked.

i siap, but you knew exactly what would happen when you posted what you did early on in this thread, so i'd be remiss if i thought you were the victim here, as some have suggested.

rather, seems like an attention getting maneuver, to what end, i'm not sure.

 

[bray2milton]

you're not helping matters. many, if not most, of your posts have been extreemely condescending, and most have been unprovoked.

i siap, but you knew exactly what would happen when you posted what you did early on in this thread, so i'd be remiss if i thought you were the victim here, as some have suggested.

rather, seems like an attention getting maneuver, to what end, i'm not sure.

Wut? I stated a opinion. I don't get this victim card some of you are trying to play for me. Attention was gained by having a differing opinion than the masses on here. It was unavoidable.

 

[Behr]

you're not helping matters. many, if not most, of your posts have been extreemely condescending, and most have been unprovoked.

i siap, but you knew exactly what would happen when you posted what you did early on in this thread, so i'd be remiss if i thought you were the victim here, as some have suggested.

rather, seems like an attention getting maneuver, to what end, i'm not sure.

I'm gonna keep quiet on my opinion of this post, and just say, I'm grateful for his presence in this thread. A lot of good stuff has been posted as a result.

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

Sadly there's truth here. I'm not sure about the circumstances in you being kicked out of your home but I'm sorry that it happened.

Most of the "shock" you see is genuine fear. Not of you but the same kind of fear you feel when you skipped the reading assignment intending to catch it up later then walk into class to a pop quiz.

They don't prepare themselves so their responses vary between the extremes of flight and fight.

For a thinker like yourself, someone like Ravi Zacharias, Josh McDowell, Greg Koukl, or Lee Stroebel would give you something to chew on. At the very least, you would have a much better idea of what you don't believe in.

The circumstances were literally I'm atheist, they don't like it so I had to go and I moved in with my father. I don't hate religious people, it's not like that at all. I judge people by who they are not what they believe in

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

I'm am sorry you were kicked out of your house at a young age. Although I don't know your circumstances, I don't see how that could be justifiable or beneficial to a teenager.

I have family and friends who are non-believers. It should be my goal to love them as much or more and to try to be a good example for them. I do not condemn.

Nothing wrong with this. As long as you don't force anything on them or anything like that they've got nothing to complain about. Pleading your case a time or 2 is different but once it's clear they won't change their beliefs it's best to let it go from there. Some people struggle with that and those are the ones I personally envy

 

[jakez4ut]

Wut? I stated a opinion. I don't get this victim card some of you are trying to play for me. Attention was gained by having a differing opinion than the masses on here. It was unavoidable.

no, i'm saying i don't buy the victim label. i think it was very deliberate.

and it was completely avoidable. you proclaim to have a lot of knowledge on how Christians think, act, and behave, so to now say it's unavoidable is quite a backstroke, seeing as how you could have avoided all of this by simply skipping something you admittedly couldn't care less about.

first post, unsolicited, not quoted......if you didn't properly forecast the reaction, then you're either naive, or completely oblivious. personally, i think you're niether given your wealth of apparent knowledge on this particular subject, which is why i go for the deliberate intent. after this it descended in to the last 20 some odd pages.:thumbsup:

Don't believe in magic. To those that do. That is your opinion. I've always viewed religion as a crutch used by people to make the bad things they do seem ok because God forgives them. If believing in something that is rationally and scientifically impossible floats your boat good for you.

 

[Behr]

Some of us have been judged for our beliefs in the past. I myself was kicked out of my mother's house in high school bc my beliefs were different. When you tell someone you're atheist, bc they may bring up religion, you get this really shocked and frightened look by some people like you aren't normal or something and sometimes you're judged right then and there by them. Or I've been called devil worshipper, evil, etc. It's a soft spot for some people

I'm fortunate not to have experienced anything like this. I do understand how difficult it could be. I don't even really know what else to say except, I hate to hear things like this.

 

[sjt18]

The circumstances were literally I'm atheist, they don't like it so I had to go and I moved in with my father. I don't hate religious people, it's not like that at all. I judge people by who they are not what they believe in

Can you explain how you judge people by something other than what they believe in? What we truly believe in will express itself in our behavior, won't it?