Butch Jones Show

[TNVOL]

I normally don't post, but no one pointed out that when CBJ talked about recruiting on his show he also talked about developing the players he has now. Our current players should get better as time goes on. We've missed player development for the last few years, be nice to see some now.

 

[Grand Vol]

Saying "we need to recruit, recruit, recruit" right after this blowout is not throwing current players under the bus? :birgits_giggle:

Let's see...

"We need to recruit because we are thin at a lot of positions and have got to build some depth"

means something completely different than:

"We need to recruit because all my current players suck and all need replacement."

And if you had listened to the post game interviews, you'd probably already know this. Especially when he tried to recruit a reporter for defensive back.

 

[TGVol]

You've still go to pin some blame on Dooley for the administrative issues and the no offensive linemen in a recruiting cycle. He had some big misses---that's why we are down to walk-ons in the secondary.

No question during Dooley's last year recruiting was way down - always happens when coaches are on hot seat (players don't want to commit to someone who is likely to get fired).

 

[TNHopeful505]

He did not walk into that. He recruited them and deserves credit for it (even though he had even less time when he was hired than CBJ). Nobody stopped CBJ to recruit that type of talent right after he joined - the fact is he could not pull it off right away (not blaming him but just stating the fact). CBJ is doing great with recruiting right now (much better than Dooley overall) - but it is the fact the Dooley did better during those first few months right after he was hired (Hunter and Rogers are the proof of that fact - and the fact he was able to get those two and later CP is the sole reason he was given the third year to see how they do when they have some experience - otherwise he most likely would have bee fired after that ugly Kentucky loss).

Dooley got Hunter and Rogers, sure, though nobody knew if they'd be hits or misses. Turns out, they were good players.

Butch managed to lock up the #2 receiver in Marquez North, and managed to keep the class together, and swing Josh Dobbs to TN. Those two may also be busts.

But I'm saying, Dooley walked in to a better roster than Butch has walked into.

When you have

Denarious Moore*
Gerald Jones*
Tauren Poole*
Janzen Jackson*
David Oku
Chris Walker*
Luke Stocker*
Montori Hughes*
Austin Johnson*
Jerrod Shaw*
Mychal Rivera*
Dallas Thomas*
Matt Simms*
Justin Hunter*
Da'Rick Rogers*

All of the * are currently or formerly on NFL rosters (Chris Walker is not presently, Janzen is CFL). Oku is still playing college ball, and doing well.

Plus you still had Neal, Rogers, Hunter, James Stone, Juwuan James, and others.

Who on this team will go pro?

Tiny, Jawuan, James Stone, Zach Fulton, maybe Bullard, maybe Marcus Jackson? A.J. Johnson, Curt Maggitt if he can recover 100%, Mo might end up on a roster after this, Dan McCullers. Randolph, Coleman, maybe. The rest it's too early to tell.

But the difference is, Dooley walked into players that would go pro eventually at RB, QB, OL, WR, TE, DL, DB, and LB.

Butch has OL, a few DL, and few LB. He lacks playmakers. Therefore, I say that Butch walked in to the tougher situation.

 

[TGVol]

We've missed player development for the last few years

Maybe on defense but definitely not true on offense. Otherwise we would not see Hunter, CP, Z Rogers, Rivera, and even Simms and Bray in the NFL (and will probably also see 3-4 of Dooley's o-lineman go in first 3 rounds of next draft).

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

Well, if it's so dang easy then, you go do it.

Oh wait. They didn't hire you. Why? Because you obviously aren't a coach. And if you are, you're not good enough to coach UT.

So what you need to do is simple:

Support our team and let the man we call coach do his job. He can't work miracles. Our coach came out and said himself it's unacceptable. But he wasn't the one out there playing, and it's not even his choice of players on the field! He's doing what he can with what he has, and what he has is a lot of players who can't hang with a team where everyone runs under a 4.5 on both sides of the ball. He has no depth, he has no experience, and he has a ton of stupid people that call themselves "Fans" scrutinizing his every decision, like every single thing about Tennessee football is exactly how he wants it. In 3-4 years from now, when Jones has a roster full of players that are wearing the orange because he and his staff wanted them to wear it, then you can say something. Until then, just let the man work.

His name is Butch. Not Jesus.

I guess everyone should just differ to your expert opinion. Your not telling us anything that we did not already know. Its just another excuse. Your no less of an arm chair coach than me or anyone else. You did Notice that I didn't say the first thing about Coach Jones not being capable, right? I just pointed out the obvious. Apparently you are so used to the losing that making excuses is acceptable.

Make no mistake, not in my wildest dreams did I expect us to win. Did I hope for, pray for a win? Of course! What I did expect however, is this team to at least put up a fight, to compete, to be respectable. We didn't and that lies completely at the Coach's feet. Of course I will hold him accountable as a fan. Do I think he should be fired, ran off, No!

And what you need to do is simple:

Not tell me or anyone else how we should feel or act as fans. I have the same right to express my thoughts the same as you.

 

[TNHopeful505]

I guess everyone should just differ to your expert opinion. Your not telling us anything that we did not already know. Its just another excuse. Your no less of an arm chair coach than me or anyone else. You did Notice that I didn't say the first thing about Coach Jones not being capable, right? I just pointed out the obvious. Apparently you are so used to the losing that making excuses is acceptable.

Make no mistake, not in my wildest dreams did I expect us to win. Did I hope for, pray for a win? Of course! What I did expect however, is this team to at least put up a fight, to compete, to be respectable. We didn't and that lies completely at the Coach's feet. Of course I will hold him accountable as a fan. Do I think he should be fired, ran off, No!

And what you need to do is simple:

Not tell me or anyone else how we should feel or act as fans. I have the same right to express my thoughts the same as you.

You're right. I apologize. I get carried away sometimes.

But, I differ with the statement that the team didn't put up a fight, or compete. The score didn't show it, but I felt like the guys continued to fight the whole time. The talent and execution just wasn't there.

I can see them giving up on Dooley, but I just truly think, with the way they talk about Butch, that they wouldn't give up on the guy they claim "They'd run through a brick wall for." I never saw the O-line break down, nor did the running backs fall backwards, and I never saw a QB make a lazy throw. Bad ones yes, but not a "I don't care" throw. I just personally don't feel like they quit.

And I don't feel like it's an excuse to say our roster is decimated, and that we don't have the talent we need to. We've lost 48 scholarship players since 2008. That hurts a program severely. And we just don't have the horses to stay with the big guys right now.

Sorry to offend, I was wrong there. Sincerely.

 

[majic73]

WRONG. Dooley recruited both Hunter and Rogers (flipped him from UGA). He also recruited the highly touted o-line.

Hunter was Kiffin silent . Rogers was gonna go where his little buddy went . Kiffin would not offer his buddy a ride ..Dooley did .

Several players that Dooley signed were being held at bay by Kiffin because Kiffin was recruiting players that he valued higher in their stead.

This is not to say he did a bad job ...but it was more ready made than you are making it sound

 

[T_man_J]

In my opinion, I think they did a pretty good job playcalling yesterday. I wish we would have gone for it more on 4th down, but I can understand that decision, and can live with it.

What can you really do? You have a QB who can't make the simplest of passes, and who consistently throws behind receivers, or in the dirt. You throw it long, it's an incompletion or an interception. You throw it short, he misses those too.

So your only chance is to run. And everyone in the stadium knows that. So, you run behind a talented OLine and you get some yards, but when they're bringing 8 in the box, good luck.

Yeah, I expect our coaches to do with the talent we have, but we don't have talent at WR yet (we have potential, but they're not there. Still missing routes, still dropping balls, not looking at the QB. I mean for Pete's sake, Worley hit North in the back of the head against WKU!). We don't have a QB who can run, so the option is pointless. I honestly think he's scared to run with it, unless it's against Austin Peay. You can't tell me Butch told him EVERY time to hand it off to the tailback. Worley is choosing not to run, even though he'd be successful.

Our D got tired, and who can blame them? You have very few LB's who can play, now, you have very few DL who can play, and you have very few DB's who can play. We have no depth, and a new system, so I don't care who you are, you're going to get burnt, and you're going to miss assignments. It's just what happens. It's not necessarily on the coaches, it's just growing pains.

We will be competitive. But we don't have much to work with right now. It's just the facts. We're doing well on the ground, which is our strength. But if we don't have a little help through the air, we're going to get stifled on offense, and worn out on defense.

On offense, the objective should have been to extend plays and keep our D off of the field. We should have pounded the rock and forced the duck defense to overload the box. This would have opened up the wide receiver slip screen. Make the corner miss a tackle and take it to the house.

On defense, our LBs were keying on the duck O line movement; this doesn't work with teams that run counter movements. We did not know how to defend triplets.

I don't mind getting beat by athleticism; I expected that. I did not expect our guys to be so far out of position (on so many plays).

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

You're right. I apologize. I get carried away sometimes.

But, I differ with the statement that the team didn't put up a fight, or compete. The score didn't show it, but I felt like the guys continued to fight the whole time. The talent and execution just wasn't there.

I can see them giving up on Dooley, but I just truly think, with the way they talk about Butch, that they wouldn't give up on the guy they claim "They'd run through a brick wall for." I never saw the O-line break down, nor did the running backs fall backwards, and I never saw a QB make a lazy throw. Bad ones yes, but not a "I don't care" throw. I just personally don't feel like they quit.

And I don't feel like it's an excuse to say our roster is decimated, and that we don't have the talent we need to. We've lost 48 scholarship players since 2008. That hurts a program severely. And we just don't have the horses to stay with the big guys right now.

Sorry to offend, I was wrong there. Sincerely.

Not a big deal. We are all passionate about our Vols and that is a good thing. I just never want to get comfortable with loosing.

 

[TNHopeful505]

Not a big deal. We are all passionate about our Vols and that is a good thing. I just never want to get comfortable with loosing.

I'm not either. But it truly does take a while to build a program to the standards we want. Luckily, we have the resources to do it.

I really think 2014 will be the class that will start the rebuilding. That group of Gaulden, Hurd, TK, Bates, Wharton, Lauderdale, and Helm will be a group that really shines for us.

I just REALLY don't like being patient. As I said in another thread, the worst part is, Dooley left this program worse off than he found it. I thought Dooley had a bad situation when he came in, and a young team. And he did. But he did not consistently recruit players who would stay and make this program better year after year. And so, the same cycle begins again. Only I feel like it's slightly worse this time, because of where our talented players are located. Dooley had playmakers everywhere. We have them nowhere.

 

[JACK8254]

I caught some of it. "I told the team that losing is never acceptable at Tennessee, it's not acceptable, we played well at first, Worley did well getting us a TD then it got away from us, but we talked about this, it's where we are in our program and it's a process, brick-by-brick, need the fans to stay with us" and so on.

We are gonna work like heck to get better. Rome wasn't built in a day, there is no "I" in team, its not the size of the dog in the fight, Blah , blah, blah. I will sum it up for y'all- we are terrible- we have no one to play QB - except maybe a freshman, there is bad karma at UT , brought by the anti-Christ AKA lane kiffin. I advocate to put this season to sleep stat. There is much more pain to come and I don't want to watch it. So - I QUIT. Gonna watch my Saints in the NFL instead, or maybe the Titans. Bye

 

[kiddiedoc]

Sorry, I was unable to watch....but, not because I don't get the channel.

 

[TNHopeful505]

We are gonna work like heck to get better. Rome wasn't built in a day, there is no "I" in team, its not the size of the dog in the fight, Blah , blah, blah. I will sum it up for y'all- we are terrible- we have no one to play QB - except maybe a freshman, there is bad karma at UT , brought by the anti-Christ AKA lane kiffin. I advocate to put this season to sleep stat. There is much more pain to come and I don't want to watch it. So - I QUIT. Gonna watch my Saints in the NFL instead, or maybe the Titans. Bye

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

 

[TNHopeful505]

We are gonna work like heck to get better. Rome wasn't built in a day, there is no "I" in team, its not the size of the dog in the fight, Blah , blah, blah. I will sum it up for y'all- we are terrible- we have no one to play QB - except maybe a freshman, there is bad karma at UT , brought by the anti-Christ AKA lane kiffin. I advocate to put this season to sleep stat. There is much more pain to come and I don't want to watch it. So - I QUIT. Gonna watch my Saints in the NFL instead, or maybe the Titans. Bye

Oh, and don't be jumping back on the wagon when we do start winning again. Some of us love our Vols enough to cheer in the hard times. It just makes the good times that much more sweeter.

 

[vols461]

Exactly. These guys quit, it seems to be the only thing they know how to consistently do. Quit and lose when the chips aren't stacked in their favor. I completely blame Dooley-Kiffin-Fulmer. Butch can only do so much with players that aren't his.

Don't forget Ham-bone while you are passing out that blame, he needs to be thrown in there as well b/c he was a very inept AD. He after all hired Dooley and Kiffin, lest ye forget.

 

[Burger]

Oh, and don't be jumping back on the wagon when we do start winning again. Some of us love our Vols enough to cheer in the hard times. It just makes the good times that much more sweeter.

This is where we earn our scars as fans. Only nonloyal people leave when things get rough.

 

[majic73]

On offense, the objective should have been to extend plays and keep our D off of the field. We should have pounded the rock and forced the duck defense to overload the box. This would have opened up the wide receiver slip screen. Make the corner miss a tackle and take it to the house.

On defense, our LBs were keying on the duck O line movement; this doesn't work with teams that run counter movements. We did not know how to defend triplets.

I don't mind getting beat by athleticism; I expected that. I did not expect our guys to be so far out of position (on so many plays).

The ducks did not have to 'load the box' although they had 7 to 8 guys within 8 yards of the line of scrimmage all the time. They were dropping instantly out of coverage at the snap and attacking interior run gaps. They are fast enough to do that ...if they misread ...they were fast enough to get back to coverage. If you pause our run plays post snap ..you will see 7 8 and 9 guys attacking ...each gap more than accounted for. We were only keeping 5 or 6 to block . they were forcing everything outside.

the ducks could afford to be that aggressive because they had no respect for our passing game ...nor should they have. We are unable to pass the ball ...they figured that out quick

the box was already 'loaded' maybe not pre-snap but post snap for sure. What we should have done was to de-commit from the passing game and commit more blockers to the point of attack to account for the extra defenders . ...and like you said slow the game down .

 

[vols461]

We are gonna work like heck to get better. Rome wasn't built in a day, there is no "I" in team, its not the size of the dog in the fight, Blah , blah, blah. I will sum it up for y'all- we are terrible- we have no one to play QB - except maybe a freshman, there is bad karma at UT , brought by the anti-Christ AKA lane kiffin. I advocate to put this season to sleep stat. There is much more pain to come and I don't want to watch it. So - I QUIT. Gonna watch my Saints in the NFL instead, or maybe the Titans. Bye

bye

 

[TNHopeful505]

This is where we earn our scars as fans. Only nonloyal people leave when things get rough.

I don't care if we were 0-12, I'd still watch and cheer my heart out. I just can't do it for any other team. I feel guilty when I don't use UT on NCAA football.

I know soon we will be back on top. It will happen. Just gotta have patience.

 

[Burger]

I don't care if we were 0-12, I'd still watch and cheer my heart out. I just can't do it for any other team. I feel guilty when I don't use UT on NCAA football.

I know soon we will be back on top. It will happen. Just gotta have patience.

Same here. I wouldn't want to be any other color. You can't leave when your team needs you the most.

 

[orangeluvr]

Okay, seriously? Are you freaking kidding me?

You walk into a situation where you have the following:

4 QBs who have nearly no experience whatsoever, 4 QBs who none of the home state teams offered, and 3 QBs who had never taken a snap, and 2 QBs who last year were playing high school. Not knocking the QBs, but that's what it is.

5 RBs (Lane, Hill, Neal, Smith, Summerhill), only two of which had taken any meaningful snaps. Neal is a senior who was injured most of last season, and Lane was not present for most of spring practice. Smith had no experience, Hill had no experience, Summerhill had no experience. Pickett would have helped, but he doesn't get to plan on him either.

Your 3 best WR went to the draft (Hunter, Rogers, Patterson). Therefore, you're left with Dallas, who had 9 receptions in 12 games in his career. You have Drae Bowles who has not had a single snap, nor did Jason Croom, who was coming off of a redshirt and injury. Pig Howard has done well this year, but was not a big part of the offense last year, so it was a unknown if he would be able to take a leadership role. Devrin Young moved to WR this year, but of course, he's now injured. Johnathan Johnson was a solid addition by Butch at the last minute, but of course, he too is now injured. Paul Harris has yet to be seen, except for one catch. North has been as good as advertised, but the point is, zero experience at WR, and nearly all of the "experience" is hurt right now or brand new at the position.

Your best TE was drafted (Rivera), and you're left with a Volleyball player who is still learning football at this level, a guy who can't stay healthy since he's been there (Meredith), a true freshman in Branisel, and then Brendan Downs, who has performed pretty well, having 2 TDs already. Also very unexperienced at TE.

Your OL is the one thing you can seemingly rely on, but outside of that front 5, that still can't seem to get a nasty streak about them, everyone else is unexperienced as well. We saw that full well in the AP game.

Your DL is now hurt with the loss of Mo Couch, something that you didn't have a thing to do with. You've lost Vereen for a few games, Smith was out for 2 weeks, and you're having to rely on true freshmen like Jaylen Miller and Jason Carr. Saulsberry has stepped up, but apparently he's banged up now too. You're most likely pleased with D-line, but the ones who should be making a difference aren't, and you aren't in the backfield as nearly as you'd like to be.

Your LBs were hurt when Maggitt wasn't 100%, and still isn't. Not sure when he'll be back. Johnson has sucked in pass coverage, which has allowed you to get burnt across the middle, since he's a good run stopper, and teams are going to the passing game. Sapp got banged up yesterday, and Christian Harris and John Propst just aren't SEC caliber linebackers at this point.

Your secondary is a pretty talented group, but not deep either. You have a sophomore starting in McNeil, a Freshman starting in Sutton, the JUCO you brought in to help in Jones is hurt, and you're having to rely on walk-ons and true freshmen to bear the load. Thankfully, Coleman and Randolph are playing well, and Sutton is a pretty awesome prospect, but you still don't have the 2 deep you'd like to have to run a hurry up offense (meaning your D will be on the field more).

Palardy has done a great job at special teams, but he's having to wear himself out doing it all. When your offense can't extend drives, they're not just killing the defense, they're killing Palardy as well.

Vincent Dallas has done a good job returning, no qualms about him.


So, given all of that, you tell me how Butch Jones is in over his head, when half of his recruiting class wasn't even his, when 1/3 of his team had never made a road trip before, and how he played the freaking #2 best team in the country on the road.

Just idiotic to say. After one big game, that NOBODY sincerely thought we had a chance of winning.

We have no depth. No speed. And we have a senior class who has been through 4 different coordinators and 3 different head coaches.

Give me a break. This board is amazingly ridiculous.

IN short , it's gonna be a loooong season.

 

[TNHopeful505]

Same here. I wouldn't want to be any other color. You can't leave when your team needs you the most.

For real. If fans only came around when we won a few games, well, then we'd be Vandy.

 

[TNHopeful505]

IN short , it's gonna be a loooong season.

Pretty much. If we make a bowl, I will call it a success.

 

[smokey0625]

Did he say why he didn't opt to go for some of those 4th and shorts?

Because our offense was killing it, right? Not saying our defense was stellar, but it wouldn't have mattered. We brought a bat to a gun fight.