'19 CA LB Henry To'oto'o (Tennessee Signee)

[sjt18]

Wrong. Previously counting toward annual limits at a school that a transfer leaves does not exempt that transfer from counting toward annual limits at his new school. That's a message board myth. There is no such provision in the NCAA Bylaws.

I will leave the true determination of this up to those who get paid to do it... but your thinking is wrong here. Your conclusion may still be right but the NCAA would only make a "provision" if the transfer was counted against the class signing limits. The absence of a direct statement to that effect indicates that they do not.

 

[Tidal Surge]

I will leave the true determination of this up to those who get paid to do it... but your thinking is wrong here. Your conclusion may still be right but the NCAA would only make a "provision" if the transfer was counted against the class signing limits. The absence of a direct statement to that effect indicates that they do not.

Here's a statement from someone who gets paid to make that determination:

Dandy Don’s Q&A with Blair Napolitano on 25-Signing Cap, Transfers, Walk-ons, and More

Ever since the NCAA instituted a few policy changes and the early signing period, there has been a lot of uncertainty about the so-called 25-signing cap. What does this mean for back-counting mid-term enrollees, for transfers, and for managing a roster of 85 scholarship players when there is unexpected attrition? In order to clear it all up, we at DandyDon.com reached out to Blair Napolitano, LSU's Assistant Athletic Director for Compliance, who was very gracious in supplying these definitive answers.

Dandy Don: Do all transfers (graduate transfers and undergraduate transfers) count toward the signing limitation per class?

Napolitano: Yes. Any incoming student enrolling at LSU for the first time – graduate transfer, undergraduate transfers (junior college and four-year) or any high school student – count toward the 25 for that year. For instance, DT Breiden Fehoko, who transferred to LSU from Texas Tech after the 2016 season, counts in the Tigers' 2017 signing class from last February.

 

[SLICKYINC]

Here's a statement from someone who gets paid to make that determination:

Dandy Don’s Q&A with Blair Napolitano on 25-Signing Cap, Transfers, Walk-ons, and More

Ever since the NCAA instituted a few policy changes and the early signing period, there has been a lot of uncertainty about the so-called 25-signing cap. What does this mean for back-counting mid-term enrollees, for transfers, and for managing a roster of 85 scholarship players when there is unexpected attrition? In order to clear it all up, we at DandyDon.com reached out to Blair Napolitano, LSU's Assistant Athletic Director for Compliance, who was very gracious in supplying these definitive answers.

Dandy Don: Do all transfers (graduate transfers and undergraduate transfers) count toward the signing limitation per class?

Napolitano: Yes. Any incoming student enrolling at LSU for the first time – graduate transfer, undergraduate transfers (junior college and four-year) or any high school student – count toward the 25 for that year. For instance, DT Breiden Fehoko, who transferred to LSU from Texas Tech after the 2016 season, counts in the Tigers' 2017 signing class from last February.

Got anything new? Tired of see this one.

 

[Tidal Surge]

Got anything new? Tired of see this one.

Apparently sjt18 hadn't read that when he made his flawed post, so I reposted it in response to him.

 

[m1al]

Good grief, this tired conversation still going on.........

 

[wrangler]

Good grief, this tired conversation still going on.........

At least it's less boring than page after page of pictures of whiskey bottles.

 

[Weezer]

At least it's less boring than page after page of pictures of whiskey bottles.

Are you sure?

 

[wrangler]

Are you sure?

Yes, I am. But, then, I have the kind of mind that appreciates thread titles bearing some relationship to thread content. What can I say?

 

[Weezer]

Yes, I am. But, then, I have the kind of mind that appreciates thread titles bearing some relationship to thread content. What can I say?

I think I'd rather look at whiskey bottles over rehashing the scholarship argument over and over. At least whiskey bottles bring back pleasant memories.

 

[wrangler]

I think I'd rather look at whiskey bottles over rehashing the scholarship argument over and over. At least whiskey bottles bring back pleasant memories.

Yeah, but I can find bottles or pictures of them any time I want. All they do for me here is get in the way of finding new football info that I'm hoping for.

This is a seriously slow news time. All we can do is coast on the endorphins remaining from the signing period.

 

[Maxwell]

I'd put Niedermeyer up in the nearest motel, hotel, hovel, shack, tent, whatever, that's closest to HT's house, and he'd there every single day until pen meets paper. Mike Cavan, asst coach on Vince Dooley's staff, moved into a cabin in Herschel Walker's hometown, and stayed there for months, to land Walker. I'd throw everything I had into this recruitment, leading up to Feb.

You recruit him until the ink on the restraining order is dry

 

[bpvol]

Yeah, but I can find bottles or pictures of them any time I want. All they do for me here is get in the way of finding new football info that I'm hoping for.

This is a seriously slow news time. All we can do is coast on the endorphins remaining from the signing period.

And, throw wild and crazy guesses at whose going to be the next OC!

 

[Smokeyone]

Transfers (all types) do count toward annual signee and initial counter limits. There's nothing in the Bylaws stating that transfers are exempt. Per section 13.9.2.3, both prospective student-athletes and student-athletes (all-inclusive) do count toward the signee limits. 15.02.3 defines "counter" as an individual (all-inclusive) who is on a countable scholarship. 15.02.3.1 defines “initial counter” as a counter (all-inclusive) who is receiving an initial countable scholarship.

NCAA Bylaws: (PDF - free download)

13.9.2.3 Limitation on the Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings. [FBS] For the football bowl subdivision, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

13.9.2.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the next academic year. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

15.02.3 Counter. A “counter” is an individual who is receiving institutional financial aid that is countable against the aid limitations in a sport.

15.02.3.1 Initial Counter. An “initial counter” is a counter who is receiving countable financial aid in a sport for the first time. (See Bylaw 15.5.6.3 in football for instances in which the institution is permitted to defer the counting of such financial aid until the following academic year.)

So by this standard a transfer would not be an initial counter but rather a counter and would count against the 85 limit for football but not the 25 cap of initial counters. Since a transfer would have received their initial "first time" aid at their first school.

Glad you cleared that up.

 

[Neyland Law Vol]

So we getting this guy or not?

 

[Sleegro]

Has anyone explained the rule on numbers with the 25 cap. Especially as it pertains to transfers. I've been looking everywhere for it and nobody seems to be discussing it anywhere.

 

[Vol464]

Has anyone explained the rule on numbers with the 25 cap. Especially as it pertains to transfers. I've been looking everywhere for it and nobody seems to be discussing it anywhere.

No, but I was hoping we could get a rival poster ( maybe a bammer). That could explain it for us if they aren’t, you know, too busy on their own team’s board.

 

[Devo182]

Wrong. it most definitely does unless its a GRAD transfer. did hurd count against baylors 17class? No. Otherwise why would you take a transfer and use up a spot when the kid has to sit out that year? Spots are for initial counters, if you graduate that resets you to an initial counter. Go back to your coloring book.

Initial counter just means when you begin receiving the scholarship at the school. There is no "resetting" an initial counter. It is for each school, not just the first time receiving a scholly anywhere. 247 verified Solomon is an initial counter.

 

[Hyperion]

So we getting this guy or not?

That's really what the thread is for. I have to think the longer this plays out the better it is for the good guys.

 

[Pacer92]

That's really what the thread is for. I have to think the longer this plays out the better it is for the good guys.

Agree. Highly ranked kids want to come in and play immediately...

Reviewing both depth charts...that has to help us..

 

[Devo182]

I will leave the true determination of this up to those who get paid to do it... but your thinking is wrong here. Your conclusion may still be right but the NCAA would only make a "provision" if the transfer was counted against the class signing limits. The absence of a direct statement to that effect indicates that they do not.

The provision is clearly laid out in the bylaw and was posted before, anyone receiving aid for the first time is an IC. There would need to be an exception, but there isn't one (though there is a clearly laid out exception for a 4-2-4 transfer - goes to JUCO, then returns to the exact same school, they get an IC exception, because the school already gave them aid before).

Have to remember, the bylaws are for universities and it's written for them. First-time scholarship means for that school, not that it's the student's first ever from any school.

 

[NeverWe'llSever]

Damn, what a boring thread.

 

[Coach Punk]

Hey, much like it was with Crouch, normal arguments do not apply. To’oto’o has a spot wherever he wants. Any team would make room for him. If he wants cash/white girls/playing time...everybody has it. He will get coached to enhance his skills to NFL level.

What is gonna get this kid to sign on is the relationships with coaches, players, and staff.

 

[CreiveHallVol]

Great GIF usage!

 

[BillVol7]

So we getting this guy or not?

Didn’t have time to check.....trying to figure out our numbers......lol

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

So we getting this guy or not?

No