Caitlin Clark

#182
#182
GroverCleveland said:
Is this potentially as dumb a marketing decision as the Bud Light fiasco?
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Man, people were so weird about that (and still are). BUD stock is already higher than it was before that right-wing cancel culture meltdown. It only took 6 months to bounce back.

Team USA probably isn't going to be hurt at all by this, except for maybe jersey sales? It's not like they get some huge financial reward for including CC. NBC doesn't cut them a bigger check. So maybe they are similar in that it's lots of teeth gnashing over something that didn't end up hurting them much.
 
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#183
#183
RDU VOL#14 said:
It is, except Caitlin Clark isn’t really a dick like Isiah was.
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Is Isaiah actually a dick, or was he just the face of the Bad Boys? Jordan was so clearly one of the biggest jerks in the league. Pippen was a bish, too. Zeke forgave Karl Malone for almost ending him. MJ doesn't forgive best pals (Charles Barkley) for telling the incontrovertible truth that he wasn't successful as an executive/owner.

I'm taking Zeke's side.
 
#185
#185
n_huffhines said:
Is Isaiah actually a dick, or was he just the face of the Bad Boys? Jordan was so clearly one of the biggest jerks in the league. Pippen was a bish, too. Zeke forgave Karl Malone for almost ending him. MJ doesn't forgive best pals (Charles Barkley) for telling the incontrovertible truth that he wasn't successful as an executive/owner.

I'm taking Zeke's side.
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Both guys were huge dicks that couldn't co-exist. One was best player on the planet. The other was on downside of career....
 
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#186
#186
BigOrangeMojo said:
Both guys were huge dicks that couldn't co-exist. One was best player on the planet. The other was on downside of career....
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For sure on all of that except the dick part. He seems like the nicest guy. I know people don't like the thing he did with Larry Bird to the media, but I kinda look at that like he was just backing up his guy (Rodman). Also, Zeke immediately apologized for that. He's always smiling. He has nice things to say about everybody except MJ. It feels like this is all MJ.
 
#187
#187
n_huffhines said:
Man, people were so weird about that (and still are). BUD stock is already higher than it was before that right-wing cancel culture meltdown. It only took 6 months to bounce back.

Team USA probably isn't going to be hurt at all by this, except for maybe jersey sales? It's not like they get some huge financial reward for including CC. NBC doesn't cut them a bigger check. So maybe they are similar in that it's lots of teeth gnashing over something that didn't end up hurting them much.
Click to expand...
Not sure what is weird about recognizing a 30% sales drop and what seems to be permanent brand switching. (Personal note: I could care less: have never cared for Bud Light or Bud for that matter).

Unless one thinks that is a good thing, it is one of the biggest dumbass decisions in the history of marketing. AB volume is down, while revenues are up because of sales of higher priced products and probably higher prices in general. Good for AB they could weather a 30% drop in sales for a flagship product, but not sure how many businesses can do that.

The second paragraph of your response seems to ignore fundamental marketing. More eyes in the entertainment business, as a general rule, increases revenue. What you said about it not being hurt is probably correct: relatively speaking no one watches them now. CC gets injured or something causes her to not be the "thing" in four years and women's basketball will be in the same place they are now: money losing organizations with a fraction of the pay of the men's version. But hey, maybe you know something about marketing the rest of us don't.
 
#188
#188
n_huffhines said:
Is Isaiah actually a dick, or was he just the face of the Bad Boys? Jordan was so clearly one of the biggest jerks in the league. Pippen was a bish, too. Zeke forgave Karl Malone for almost ending him. MJ doesn't forgive best pals (Charles Barkley) for telling the incontrovertible truth that he wasn't successful as an executive/owner.

I'm taking Zeke's side.
Click to expand...
I don’t know that I’m on either team. I think both are dicks, actually Isiah can be a litttle awkward at times. I’ve said that for a long time in regards to Jordan. It gets a lot of pushback. We’ve all heard the stories, getting cut from JV, punching Kerr in the face and really not being a likable teammate/guy. He’s a very petty individual and he used that pettiness to manufacture any sort of fuel he needed to get locked in. That’s what drives him and has made the greatest, but it seems like he can’t really compartmentalize it when it comes to personal relationships. Like Barkley or maybe Pippen or when he gave that abomination of a HOF speech. I think during The Last Dance you could see that it kind of bothered him that certain were critical of him in that way.
 
#189
#189
GroverCleveland said:
Not sure what is weird about recognizing a 30% sales drop and what seems to be permanent brand switching. (Personal note: I could care less: have never cared for Bud Light or Bud for that matter).

Unless one thinks that is a good thing, it is one of the biggest dumbass decisions in the history of marketing. AB volume is down, while revenues are up because of sales of higher priced products and probably higher prices in general. Good for AB they could weather a 30% drop in sales for a flagship product, but not sure how many businesses can do that.

The second paragraph of your response seems to ignore fundamental marketing. More eyes in the entertainment business, as a general rule, increases revenue. What you said about it not being hurt is probably correct: relatively speaking no one watches them now. CC gets injured or something causes her to not be the "thing" in four years and women's basketball will be in the same place they are now: money losing organizations with a fraction of the pay of the men's version. But hey, maybe you know something about marketing the rest of us don't.
Click to expand...

The permanent brand-switching is weird in the first place.

Can you explain specifically the many ways in which you think Team USA would turn bench player Caitlin Clark into big revenue for Team USA? You're talking about them like they are Bud Light. Hell, USA basketball is a non-profit.

They've got a couple exhibition games and jersey sales as their variable revenues. IDK what else.
 
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#190
#190
n_huffhines said:
For sure on all of that except the dick part. He seems like the nicest guy. I know people don't like the thing he did with Larry Bird to the media, but I kinda look at that like he was just backing up his guy (Rodman). Also, Zeke immediately apologized for that. He's always smiling. He has nice things to say about everybody except MJ. It feels like this is all MJ.
Click to expand...

I mean Isiah did allegedly (per Magic) question his sexuality in the year before 92.

The fact Bird and Magic said nothing speaks volumes

And clearly hindsight, but we've seen how IT treats women after his career ended...
 
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#191
#191
n_huffhines said:
The permanent brand-switching is weird in the first place.

Can you explain specifically the many ways in which you think Team USA would turn bench player Caitlin Clark into big revenue for Team USA? You're talking about them like they are Bud Light. Hell, USA basketball is a non-profit.

They've got a couple exhibition games and jersey sales as their variable revenues. IDK what else.
Click to expand...

We saw what happened last year when US Soccer bowed down to Nike to let a whiny, washed Megan Rapinoe on the team over far more qualified strikers...
 
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#192
#192
RDU VOL#14 said:
I don’t know that I’m on either team. I think both are dicks, actually Isiah can be a litttle awkward at times. I’ve said that for a long time in regards to Jordan. It gets a lot of pushback. We’ve all heard the stories, getting cut from JV, punching Kerr in the face and really not being a likable teammate/guy. He’s a very petty individual and he used that pettiness to manufacture any sort of fuel he needed to get locked in. That’s what drives him and has made the greatest, but it seems like he can’t really compartmentalize it when it comes to personal relationships. Like Barkley or maybe Pippen or when he gave that abomination of a HOF speech. I think during The Last Dance you could see that it kind of bothered him that certain were critical of him in that way.
Click to expand...

MJ may very well be the GOAT, but I gotta say, he had incredible timing and luck with his career. If he were playing today, he'd have to change so much about himself to thrive. Dude would play golf, an NBA game, and then stay up late night drinking, smoking, and playing cards. He couldn't turn off, which is why he retired prematurely twice. He ran himself ragged and didn't have the ability to turn off his no-chill persona. You got NBA players today going plant-based diet, putting $1m into their bodies in the offseason, sleeping 10 hr days, in the lab all the time working on their game, etc. Would MJ do all that? Not the MJ we knew.

Jordan luck:

- most watered-down league of the modern era (massive league expansion and pre-international talent explosion). MJ saw the league expand by 6 teams and we've only added one team since MJ retired. Think about that. He's a rookie and there are 345 rostered NBA players and by the time he's on his 4th title, there are 435. You're licking your chops at some of those rotations. Some of these finals team rosters are hilarious. The '95 Magic had Brian Shaw as their 6th man and didn't play anybody else, really. The Jazz started Ostertag and two small, old guards in the finals two years in a row. That's why they played a slow pace. They didn't have the personnel to play fast.
- it was a big man era and wing defenders in his era were pretty weak (because he became the reason you needed wing D).
- his team drafted Scottie, Horace, Kukoc, hired Phil, and traded for Rodman. Just masterful luck. He had good teammate luck in general. He was such an a-hole and grinded dudes down, and he happened to have mostly great teammates who didn't falter under that pressure. A lot of guys would. Imagine MJ with like a Chris Webber type or Karl Anthony-Towns (like the Jimmy Butler incident). They put gangsters and dudes who could just take the abuse (Kerr) from MJ.
- no zone D in his era.
- just show up and play era. I love the documentaries making a big deal of MJ weight training like he was going above and beyond the call of duty.
- he could hardly deal with the media scrutiny of his time. Imagine MJ in the social media era.
 
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#193
#193
GroverCleveland said:
The second paragraph of your response seems to ignore fundamental marketing. More eyes in the entertainment business, as a general rule, increases revenue. What you said about it not being hurt is probably correct: relatively speaking no one watches them now. CC gets injured or something causes her to not be the "thing" in four years and women's basketball will be in the same place they are now: money losing organizations with a fraction of the pay of the men's version. But hey, maybe you know something about marketing the rest of us don't.
Click to expand...
It's always the people who haven't watched a single second of a game with these doomsday predictions about how the entire league will collapse based on an Olympic team choice, and I'm willing to bet this time is no different
 
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#194
#194
BigOrangeMojo said:
We saw what happened last year when US Soccer bowed down to Nike to let a whiny, washed Megan Rapinoe on the team over far more qualified strikers...
Click to expand...

What did happen that would translate to lost revenue for Team USA hoops? I remember people weren't watching the games on TV, but that doesn't translate to lost revenue for the team in any direct way. Jersey sales. Some exhibition game attendance was down.

IDK anything about what Team USA gets for exhibition attendance leading up to Olymics. I assume it would be a lot for a team of this quality, and I'm not sure they lose any ticket revenue because Clark is not on the bench.
 
#195
#195
n_huffhines said:
IDK what your point is. Jrue can have another title and both of them will start next season with everyone still calling Dame a superstar and nobody calling Jrue that.

I'm not dogging Jrue. I have been team Jrue forever. I was calling Bucks a super team bc they got Jrue and literally nobody agreed with me. The point is that you can't just have the 12 biggest superstars. You gotta have guys to do the dirty work. You gotta have leaders and culture guys. You're agreeing with me at every turn but somehow have a problem with the comp that perfectly illustrates the point.
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That’s my bad…I thought you were somehow drawing a Jrue/Dame parallel with CC not making the team.

I agree leadership and culture are important, and sometimes that means taking a less talented player who’s a better fit.
 
#196
#196
n_huffhines said:
What did happen that would translate to lost revenue for Team USA hoops? I remember people weren't watching the games on TV, but that doesn't translate to lost revenue for the team in any direct way. Jersey sales. Some exhibition game attendance was down.

IDK anything about what Team USA gets for exhibition attendance leading up to Olymics. I assume it would be a lot for a team of this quality, and I'm not sure they lose any ticket revenue because Clark is not on the bench.
Click to expand...

Does US basketball get anything from sponsors? I know US Soccer did hence the decision to roster and play a clearly washed Rapinoe.
 
#197
#197
NashVol11 said:
It's always the people who haven't watched a single second of a game with these doomsday predictions about how the entire league will collapse based on an Olympic team choice, and I'm willing to bet this time is no different
Click to expand...

CC would have been one of the last players coming off the bench.
 
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#198
#198
n_huffhines said:
The permanent brand-switching is weird in the first place.

Can you explain specifically the many ways in which you think Team USA would turn bench player Caitlin Clark into big revenue for Team USA? You're talking about them like they are Bud Light. Hell, USA basketball is a non-profit.

They've got a couple exhibition games and jersey sales as their variable revenues. IDK what else.
Click to expand...
How in the hell is brand switching weird? Happens all the time and sometimes when someone either has a huge marketing success or failure.

Look, I'm not going to argue about it. If you think leaving the most popular female basketball player on planet Earth is a good idea, you do you. I just asked a question and you obviously do not see a problem with it.

Note to self: Never hire n_huffhines as a marketing director.
 
#199
#199
Lawrence Wright said:
That’s my bad…I thought you were somehow drawing a Jrue/Dame parallel with CC not making the team.

I agree leadership and culture are important, and sometimes that means taking a less talented player who’s a better fit.
Click to expand...

I'm just not in the business of players like Dame. If I want to run my team as a profit-maximizing business and win 45-50 games, and I have a choice to start my team with Dame or Jrue, I will take Dame at $52M. But if I'm trying to win a championship, I'm taking Jrue at $34M every time. If I'm trying to win a title, I probably don't want Dame (I think I would if I were the Spurs), period.
 
#200
#200
n_huffhines said:
MJ may very well be the GOAT, but I gotta say, he had incredible timing and luck with his career. If he were playing today, he'd have to change so much about himself to thrive. Dude would play golf, an NBA game, and then stay up late night drinking, smoking, and playing cards. He couldn't turn off, which is why he retired prematurely twice. He ran himself ragged and didn't have the ability to turn off his no-chill persona. You got NBA players today going plant-based diet, putting $1m into their bodies in the offseason, sleeping 10 hr days, in the lab all the time working on their game, etc. Would MJ do all that? Not the MJ we knew.

Jordan luck:

- most watered-down league of the modern era (massive league expansion and pre-international talent explosion). MJ saw the league expand by 6 teams and we've only added one team since MJ retired. Think about that. He's a rookie and there are 345 rostered NBA players and by the time he's on his 4th title, there are 435. You're licking your chops at some of those rotations. Some of these finals team rosters are hilarious. The '95 Magic had Brian Shaw as their 6th man and didn't play anybody else, really. The Jazz started Ostertag and two small, old guards in the finals two years in a row. That's why they played a slow pace. They didn't have the personnel to play fast.
- it was a big man era and wing defenders in his era were pretty weak (because he became the reason you needed wing D).
- his team drafted Scottie, Horace, Kukoc, hired Phil, and traded for Rodman. Just masterful luck. He had good teammate luck in general. He was such an a-hole and grinded dudes down, and he happened to have mostly great teammates who didn't falter under that pressure. A lot of guys would. Imagine MJ with like a Chris Webber type or Karl Anthony-Towns (like the Jimmy Butler incident). They put gangsters and dudes who could just take the abuse (Kerr) from MJ.
- no zone D in his era.
- just show up and play era. I love the documentaries making a big deal of MJ weight training like he was going above and beyond the call of duty.
- he could hardly deal with the media scrutiny of his time. Imagine MJ in the social media era.
Click to expand...
Your first bullet I think is a big reason he clearly had the better team in the 6 Finals he won. People are so quick to say "MJ is the best because he went 6-0 in the Finals, and LeBron has a losing Finals record." That is such a dumb statement for multiple reasons (another being all that means is that MJ lost earlier), but the biggest being that the league was watered down. That's pretty wild that the league expanded by 6 teams during his career. I didn't realize it was that many.

That isn't to say none of the teams he faced weren't good teams that had some great players, but most of those rosters he faced were as shallow as a kiddie pool.
 
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