California ban on same-sex marriage struck down

#151
#151
BigPapaVol said:
that might be true, but I don't see homo v hetero as some morality issue. I think it's a nature issue.
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In some cases maybe. But many more cases it is because of deep seeded emotional issues. It is not by chance that many homosexuals are "attention" oriented. There are many examples backed up by stats to prove the emotional issues.
 
#152
#152
VolzRChamps said:
I believe that the Bible doesn't directly refference marriage between the same gender. I believe that the sexual act that homosexuals have is a sin. I believe that the passage referencing being yoked to similar people is the closest thing that someone could use to say the Bible is against "Gay Marriage".

Outside of that, I believe that the Religious Right doesn't like homosexuality, and therefore a majority of them use the Bible to attempt to "explain homosexuality away" on every level that they can.

Instead of simply loving people regardless of their sin which would be the "Christian" way, they turn their back on homosexuals and attack them every chance they get.

Frankly it's one of the things that turns me away from "organized religion".
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As Christians it is our duty to love the person not the sin. And it is also a duty as a Christian to speak out on those things that are corrupt and fly in the face of its teachings.
 
#153
#153
utvolpj said:
Separate but equal right? Sounds like 50-100yrs ago when there were those with a bible in the right hand and the banging the pulpit with their left while preaching about the horrible dangers of race mixing. Our parents/grandparents grew up during that time and, if you're like me, you look at it and wonder what the heck were they thinking. Your children are going to look back and wonder the same thing.
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So if we don't agree with the ruling, we're basically the same as a racist? That's nice to know.
 
#154
#154
VolzRChamps said:
I'm aware of that, but does it say anything about a man and a man or woman and woman being "married" as wrong? Does it even mention it one way or the other?
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The Bible doesn't tell us we can't do many things but common sense following it's teachings tells us what is right and what is wrong.
 
#155
#155
VolzRChamps said:
It also says adultry is lusting after another person's spouse, and I'm willing to bet almost every married person commits THAT sin, so why is a homosexual act within a marriage any worse?

It's my belief there is only ONE unforgivable sin.

The people that want to restrict homosexuals act like a homosexual sin is somehow worse than a hetrosexual one.
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I think the issue here with many is that unlike the sins you mentioned Cali will make this a state sanctioned sin.
 
#156
#156
volsforever27 said:
So if we don't agree with the ruling, we're basically the same as a racist? That's nice to know.
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Not really my point. Basically saying that religion has been used as a resistance to changes that need to be made for hundreds of years in this country. What looks like a groundbreaking issue right now will be looked upon as common sense by future generations(civil rights, womens suffrage, etc.)

My questions is how do you justify saying that one group of people deserves to have fewer rights than another group?
 
#157
#157
utvolpj said:
Separate but equal right? Sounds like 50-100yrs ago when there were those with a bible in the right hand and the banging the pulpit with their left while preaching about the horrible dangers of race mixing. Our parents/grandparents grew up during that time and, if you're like me, you look at it and wonder what the heck were they thinking. Your children are going to look back and wonder the same thing.
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The only way my child will think that is if the corruption of this world teaches him or her that, other wise my racist ass is gonna teach him or her the right way to view this immoral topic... Its been addressed earlier in the thread that homosexuality isnt addressed as sin in the bible or homosexual marriage one, and id like to know what bible yall have been reading, its very clearly addressed in the bible as wrong
 
#158
#158
bigtime said:
The only way my child will think that is if the corruption of this world teaches him or her that, other wise my racist ass is gonna teach him or her the right way to view this immoral topic... Its been addressed earlier in the thread that homosexuality isnt addressed as sin in the bible or homosexual marriage one, and id like to know what bible yall have been reading, its very clearly addressed in the bible as wrong
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Don't take this the wrong way but many of us don't live our lives based on a book. I don't really need it to tell me what is right and wrong in life.

There are plenty of things in the bible that I'm sure you don't live by but choose this one to make a stand. Are you really allowed to pick and choose what parts you follow and which ones don't apply? More of a guide book than a rule book?
 
#159
#159
bigtime said:
The only way my child will think that is if the corruption of this world teaches him or her that, other wise my racist ass is gonna teach him or her the right way to view this immoral topic... Its been addressed earlier in the thread that homosexuality isnt addressed as sin in the bible or homosexual marriage one, and id like to know what bible yall have been reading, its very clearly addressed in the bible as wrong
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i'm not sure what thread you're reading because all that was pointed out was that the Bible doesn't really address homosexual marriage, it only says the act of homosexuality is wrong. That is technically correct.

It's perfectly fine for you to teach your child your view and try to instill it in them. The issue is how/why does the govt have the right to force a Christian belief on someone?
 
#160
#160
volfanbill said:
i'm not sure what thread you're reading because all that was pointed out was that the Bible doesn't really address homosexual marriage, it only says the act of homosexuality is wrong. That is technically correct.

It's perfectly fine for you to teach your child your view and try to instill it in them. The issue is how/why does the govt have the right to force a Christian belief on someone?
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I think its less about christian belief and more about the will of the people in California. They already voted on the matter and the people were heard and the courts sided differently. Unless there is something in the state constitution that defines marriage as union between a man and woman they came to the right conclusion by law. Look for there to be a amendment to the state constitution redefining marriage there soon.
 
#161
#161
utvolpj said:
Separate but equal right? Sounds like 50-100yrs ago when there were those with a bible in the right hand and the banging the pulpit with their left while preaching about the horrible dangers of race mixing. Our parents/grandparents grew up during that time and, if you're like me, you look at it and wonder what the heck were they thinking. Your children are going to look back and wonder the same thing.
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You are dead wrong on that one.
 
#162
#162
utvolpj said:
Not really my point. Basically saying that religion has been used as a resistance to changes that need to be made for hundreds of years in this country. What looks like a groundbreaking issue right now will be looked upon as common sense by future generations(civil rights, womens suffrage, etc.)

My questions is how do you justify saying that one group of people deserves to have fewer rights than another group?
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Again you couldn't be more wrong. There is nothing common sense about something that goes against nature itself.

I still have a hard time understanding people who compare race and gender to homosexuality which is a choice.

Why did the gov't in Tenn. outlaw smoking in places that serve food?
Why can an 18 year old marry a 50 year old but a 17 year old can't marry a 22 year old?

Why can't two sisters or brothers who love each other get married?

Why can't two women who are in love and also love the same man have a triple marriage?

I think anyone who is against any of these things is a discriminatory person.
 
#163
#163
utvolpj said:
Don't take this the wrong way but many of us don't live our lives based on a book. I don't really need it to tell me what is right and wrong in life.

There are plenty of things in the bible that I'm sure you don't live by but choose this one to make a stand. Are you really allowed to pick and choose what parts you follow and which ones don't apply? More of a guide book than a rule book?
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Ill admit its obvious i fall short we all do but its not the book you base your life on its following and praising god... Now God says homosexuality is wrong so thats what im gonna believe, plus its disgusting
 
#164
#164
volfanbill said:
i'm not sure what thread you're reading because all that was pointed out was that the Bible doesn't really address homosexual marriage, it only says the act of homosexuality is wrong. That is technically correct.

It's perfectly fine for you to teach your child your view and try to instill it in them. The issue is how/why does the govt have the right to force a Christian belief on someone?
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If homosexuality is wrong in the bible how can it not be against homosexual marriage... from a biblical standpoint homosexuality has absolutely no support whether it be marriage or the act itself, and any arguments that it does can be shot down
 
#165
#165
JZVOL said:
Again you couldn't be more wrong. There is nothing common sense about something that goes against nature itself.

I still have a hard time understanding people who compare race and gender to homosexuality which is a choice.

Why did the gov't in Tenn. outlaw smoking in places that serve food?
Why can an 18 year old marry a 50 year old but a 17 year old can't marry a 22 year old?

Why can't two sisters or brothers who love each other get married?

Why can't two women who are in love and also love the same man have a triple marriage?

I think anyone who is against any of these things is a discriminatory person.
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good post
 
#166
#166
JZVOL said:
Again you couldn't be more wrong. There is nothing common sense about something that goes against nature itself.

I still have a hard time understanding people who compare race and gender to homosexuality which is a choice.

Why did the gov't in Tenn. outlaw smoking in places that serve food?
Why can an 18 year old marry a 50 year old but a 17 year old can't marry a 22 year old?

Why can't two sisters or brothers who love each other get married?

Why can't two women who are in love and also love the same man have a triple marriage?

I think anyone who is against any of these things is a discriminatory person.
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Again, you just don't get it. You are taking laws that are protection and trying to use them in an argument to justify laws on scripture. Millions of people don't adhere to your scripture so it is discrimination plain and simple. You keep believing what your book tells you is right and some of us will actually care about the people your views affect. Slavery and segregation were all arguments backed by people carrying bibles as well.

If homosexuality is a choice then I am absolutely amazed at the number of people who choose to live their life being ridiculed and made 2nd class citizens.

It causes absolutely no harm to your life whatsoever.
 
#169
#169
Homosexuality is not a choice. That view is silly. I have talked at length with many gay people and one was in my family.
 
#170
#170
utvolpj said:
Again, you just don't get it. You are taking laws that are protection and trying to use them in an argument to justify laws on scripture. Millions of people don't adhere to your scripture so it is discrimination plain and simple. You keep believing what your book tells you is right and some of us will actually care about the people your views affect. Slavery and segregation were all arguments backed by people carrying bibles as well.

If homosexuality is a choice then I am absolutely amazed at the number of people who choose to live their life being ridiculed and made 2nd class citizens.

It causes absolutely no harm to your life whatsoever.
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In some cases I do believe that homosexuality is biological, at the same time though I tend to see these cases outnumbered by those who are homosexual by choice. Some people who are gay would also tell you they are attracted to the opposite sex. That wouldn't fall under the category of choice?
 
#172
#172
KB5252 said:
In some cases I do believe that homosexuality is biological, at the same time though I tend to see these cases outnumbered by those who are homosexual by choice. Some people who are gay would also tell you they are attracted to the opposite sex. That wouldn't fall under the category of choice?
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This is a reasonable view.
 
#173
#173
Fine Vol said:
Homosexuality is not a choice. That view is silly. I have talked at length with many gay people and one was in my family.
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So have I. A family member who was disfigured as a young boy who grew up to marry a very attractive woman who treated him horribly. She belittled him because of the scars over 70% of his body. He told me that after that he made up his mind he would never fall in love with another woman. Homosexuality didn't enter his mind until he met a friend who he had no idea was gay. Things progressed and now they are a happy couple living in Virginia. My point is many homosexuals are oriented that way by choice, many times because of deep seeded issues they have experienced.
 
#174
#174
KB5252 said:
So have I. A family member who was disfigured as a young boy who grew up to marry a very attractive woman who treated him horribly. She belittled him because of the scars over 70% of his body. He told me that after that he made up his mind he would never fall in love with another woman. Homosexuality didn't enter his mind until he met a friend who he had no idea was gay. Things progressed and now they are a happy couple living in Virginia. My point is many homosexuals are oriented that way by choice, many times because of deep seeded issues they have experienced.
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Not sure I agree with that because you seem to be calling it a defect or something brought on by trauma. I have no doubt that there is a small % who choose to be gay while still having straight sexual feelings. We know it happens in the straight community all the time.

What I still don't get is this fear of other human beings having the same rights as you and me when it doesn't hurt anything. (not really at you KB, just general)
 
#175
#175
utvolpj said:
If homosexuality is a choice then I am absolutely amazed at the number of people who choose to live their life being ridiculed and made 2nd class citizens.
.
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You're right, for most I'd say it is not a choice. Most likely is some type of disease or mental condition. As a society we should treat these people as normally as anyone else. However, by not recognizing it for what it really is we are taking on the role of enablers. If we are going to pour money into AIDS research we should also have an open mind and pour money in research why someone's brain would cause them to make these choices in the first place. But that would be unrealistic or phobic to consider the idea that this lifestyle is not normal.
 
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