California prop 8:

#201
#201
rjd970 said:
The fact that it is being done by the Catholic Church is all that needs to be said. And forgive me, especially given its past glorious acceptance of the subject, if I am not awed by the scientific credibility of this institution. And while we are on the subject of scientific credibility, anything, including Kinsey, is better than a church run experiment with a religious agenda to prove.

So how flat is the earth still?
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I can only understand how you are not awed by the institution that trained Copernicus, Galileo, and Newton. Oh, and, by the way, I don't forgive you (for that matter, God probably feels the same way. Hell's hot, enjoy!)
 
#203
#203
I think that it depends on your perspective, dickens...the argument is made that it allowed Galileo, for example, to continue doing research while under house arrest in an attempt to pander to the masses yet not stop him from doing his science....
 
#204
#204
dickens821 said:
The Catholic Church spurned Copernicus and Galileo.
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TennTradition said:
I think that it depends on your perspective, dickens...the argument is made that it allowed Galileo, for example, to continue doing research while under house arrest in an attempt to pander to the masses yet not stop him from doing his science....
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Thank you, TennTradition. In a time when the Catholic Church excommunicated and executed heretics, Copernicus remained a practicing priest and continued to study in the Church.

Galileo was also accused of heresy. He was neither excommunicated nor executed. He was placed under house arrest in a villa that the Papacy built for him, complete with class rooms so he could not only continue to study, but he could also teach.

The trials of Copernicus and Galileo were merely show trials in an effort to curb the efforts of the "Biblical literalists" who were pressing the reformation ahead.
 
#205
#205
therealUT said:
I can only understand how you are not awed by the institution that trained Copernicus, Galileo, and Newton. Oh, and, by the way, I don't forgive you (for that matter, God probably feels the same way. Hell's hot, enjoy!)
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You're right, I am not awed by the institution that didn't officially absolve Galileo of heresy until 1998, yet never saw fit to excommunicate a single member of the third reich. The same institution that in 1907 declared modernism a heresy, and excommunicated all members who contributed to it. Books by great thinkers such as Descartes (selected works), Montaigne (Essais) , Locke (Essay on Human Understanding), Swift (Tale of a Tub), Swedenborg (Principia), Voltarie (Lettres philosophiques), Diderot (Encyclopedie), Rousseau (Du contrat social), Gibbon (The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire), Paine (The Rights of Man), Sterne (A Sentimental Journey), Kant (Critique of Pure Reason), Flaubert (Madame Bovary), and of course...Darwin (On the Origin of Species) were placed in this category. Not all excommunicated maybe, but looked upon the same way as Galileo. Of course, this list can go on and is only a snapshot from a book I have been reading, but you get the point. So forgive me if I am a little skeptical about any "study" done by this same church on homosexuality.

Wanting to know how the world is in a truly honest manner has a knack of leaving one open to new evidence, so it is not especially promising that the catholic church, in whatever silly little study it is doing, is going to be anything reaching accurate. It is no accident that religious dogma and honest inquiry rarely overlap.

It is laughable that you would be on here espousing the virtues of academic inquiry and factual evidence, and then refer to some study done by the Catholic church as your fallback. Maybe you should be the one doing the homework before you come back.
 
#206
#206
rjd970 said:
You're right, I am not awed by the institution that didn't officially absolve Galileo of heresy until 1998, yet never saw fit to excommunicate a single member of the third reich. The same institution that in 1907 declared modernism a heresy, and excommunicated all members who contributed to it. Books by great thinkers such as Descartes (selected works), Montaigne (Essais) , Locke (Essay on Human Understanding), Swift (Tale of a Tub), Swedenborg (Principia), Voltarie (Lettres philosophiques), Diderot (Encyclopedie), Rousseau (Du contrat social), Gibbon (The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire), Paine (The Rights of Man), Sterne (A Sentimental Journey), Kant (Critique of Pure Reason), Flaubert (Madame Bovary), and of course...Darwin (On the Origin of Species) were placed in this category. Not all excommunicated maybe, but looked upon the same way as Galileo. Of course, this list can go on and is only a snapshot from a book I have been reading, but you get the point. So forgive me if I am a little skeptical about any "study" done by this same church on homosexuality.

Wanting to know how the world is in a truly honest manner has a knack of leaving one open to new evidence, so it is not especially promising that the catholic church, in whatever silly little study it is doing, is going to be anything reaching accurate. It is no accident that religious dogma and honest inquiry rarely overlap.

It is laughable that you would be on here espousing the virtues of academic inquiry and factual evidence, and then refer to some study done by the Catholic church as your fallback. Maybe you should be the one doing the homework before you come back.
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What category were these books placed in? Books cannot be excommunicated...maybe they can be put on house arrest in fancy brand new villas???

Voltaire was a daily communicant.

Why would the Catholic Church excommunicate Paine, Locke, Hobbes, or Darwin? They were not Catholics.

As for the Third Reich argument, we have been over this. Your attempt to slander the Catholic Church on this matter holds no water. Maybe next time you randomly mention this fact, yet again, I will be convinced. Until then, don't hold your breath.

As for denying the credibility of Catholic academic institutions throughout history. Best of luck reading any of the classics (Socrates, Aristotle, and Plato, to name a few) without giving credit to the Catholic Church for saving such works from ever becoming obsolete.

Feel free to continue reading your book that is decidedly anti-Catholic. There are many selections out there of the sort. However, I could write a book about picking manure up from the clean end, yet, it would fail to be authoritative in any way. Get my drift? Hell's hot. Pack a fan.
 
#207
#207
Whatever happened to "Judge not lest ye be judged," and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone?" There are a lot of people casting stones from their glass houses in this thread, unless of course you believe yourself to be sinless.
 
#208
#208
TreeGreen said:
Whatever happened to "Judge not lest ye be judged," and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone?" There are a lot of people casting stones from their glass houses in this thread, unless of course you believe yourself to be sinless.
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I am more than willing to be judged to the same standard in which I am judging others. For Scripture references on the merits of judging others, feel free to search through all of my posts. If those two Scripture passages are all you have, then, good day.
 
#209
#209
lawgator1 said:
Wow! The third worst? That must be some impressive outfit that came up with that.

The "1999 Intercollegiate Review." Hmmmm ... They sure sound like they are academics and unbiased, don't they? I mean. you wouldn't ever want to question them, would you, as official as they sound and all?


Oh, wait ... Do you know who they are? Check out their credentials? Do so, and you will see that their title of "academic" or "intercollegiate" is a ruse.
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One need not examine the intercollegiate review to understand that Alfred Kinsey and all his so-called research was Nazi propaganda perverted CRAP!

Even you can understand that, can you not??
 
#210
#210
therealUT said:
I am more than willing to be judged to the same standard in which I am judging others. For Scripture references on the merits of judging others, feel free to search through all of my posts. If those two Scripture passages are all you have, then, good day.
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I leave final judgment to the creator because he told me it was his charge alone. But, if hypocrisy is your thing that's fine too. I'm just pointing out that assuming or informing someone of their final calling is warned against.
 
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#211
#211
TreeGreen said:
I leave final judgment to the creator because he told me it was his charge alone. But, if hypocrisy is your thing that's fine too. I'm just pointing out that assuming or informing someone of their final calling is warned against.
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Where am I being hypocritical? If you want to accuse me of misinterpreting or perverting scripture then the correct charge would be "heresy".

If you feel like leveling that charge, so be it. Come prepared with more substantive evidence, though.
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#212
#212
Someone mentioned possible law suits.

Here is one filed in Tennessee.

You can rest assured the American Communist Lawyers Union will push their agenda any an all times they see an opportunity.

Someone should file a suit seeking an injunction against the ACLU filing any suits on the basis that they are a vexatious litigant.

Of course they would probably break up into several other legal entities with all that money to burn but anything to disrupt their destructive work would be a step in the right direction.
 
#213
#213
I would give anything to see that happen to the ACLU. I could completely understand an alliance that made sure people's rights aren't trampled on, but they are on a whole different plane. Before I moved down here, the area I lived in had a major ACLU case where they were suing on the behalf of a convicted child molester's "right" to frequent parks that were heavily populated with children. If I get to started on those fascists that will be enough for a whole new thread.

Lawgator, I'll concede what you said about who did that review, but in my mind the fact still remains about the "study" they did about children. That alone pretty much makes the whole study a fraud, and I welcome you to give me your justifications for that and how exactly you bring an infant to orgasm without some outside help. It sickens me that a publicly funded study at a well respected University (even tho I have always hated them go Boilers!) is responsible for the permanent psychological damage to God knows how many young children... all for the name of "Science."

I am mostly a "live and let live" person, but when you say that, that includes EVERYONE. And ok maybe gays have a right to get married, but everyone else has just as much of a right to refuse to conduct that ceremony or business related to said matrimony without fear of being sued to oblivion.
 
#214
#214
OrangeYankee said:
I would give anything to see that happen to the ACLU. I could completely understand an alliance that made sure people's rights aren't trampled on, but they are on a whole different plane. Before I moved down here, the area I lived in had a major ACLU case where they were suing on the behalf of a convicted child molester's "right" to frequent parks that were heavily populated with children. If I get to started on those fascists that will be enough for a whole new thread.

Lawgator, I'll concede what you said about who did that review, but in my mind the fact still remains about the "study" they did about children. That alone pretty much makes the whole study a fraud, and I welcome you to give me your justifications for that and how exactly you bring an infant to orgasm without some outside help. It sickens me that a publicly funded study at a well respected University (even tho I have always hated them go Boilers!) is responsible for the permanent psychological damage to God knows how many young children... all for the name of "Science."

I am mostly a "live and let live" person, but when you say that, that includes EVERYONE. And ok maybe gays have a right to get married, but everyone else has just as much of a right to refuse to conduct that ceremony or business related to said matrimony without fear of being sued to oblivion.
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Well said, my friend.
 
#215
#215
therealUT said:
I am more than willing to be judged to the same standard in which I am judging others. For Scripture references on the merits of judging others, feel free to search through all of my posts. If those two Scripture passages are all you have, then, good day.
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Let me get this straight: you're condemning another poster to eternity in hell because he disagrees with your views on the Catholic Church, you think homosexuals can be "cured" of their condition, and your handle's signature line is "Rational Thought Allowed"?

Do you see the irony in this? I'll bet you're all kinds of fun at parties.
 
#216
#216
DowntownVol said:
Let me get this straight: you're condemning another poster to eternity in hell because he disagrees with your views on the Catholic Church, you think homosexuals can be "cured" of their condition, and your handle's signature line is "Rational Thought Allowed"?

Do you see the irony in this? I'll bet you're all kinds of fun at parties.
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He is condemned to Hell for willfully turning his back on God. Yes, homosexuality is a mental disorder and perversion. Can you debate my position with reason and logic, citing evidence to conclusively disprove my stance? If the answer is no, then what part of my position is irrational?

I highly doubt you and I will ever run in the same social circles, therefore, I could care less about your parties. Irony? I think not.
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#217
#217
OrangeYankee said:
I would give anything to see that happen to the ACLU. I could completely understand an alliance that made sure people's rights aren't trampled on, but they are on a whole different plane. Before I moved down here, the area I lived in had a major ACLU case where they were suing on the behalf of a convicted child molester's "right" to frequent parks that were heavily populated with children. If I get to started on those fascists that will be enough for a whole new thread.
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The ACLU certainly isn't the only organization in America to have it's roots deeply in the communist and/or fascist parties and have overabundant funding from elitists who have always supported that vision for the world's future.

THE ACLU VS AMERICA

Tidbits from a review of this excellent book:

Just how the ACLU has gone about this (subversion through “fear, intimidation, and disinformation” of all our American liberties in favor of one centralized power) is a fascinating study in itself. It didn’t hurt, for starters, to have the support of the Communist Party. When Roger Baldwin founded the ACLU in 1920, Earl Browder, then General Secretary of the Communist Party, USA, referred to the ACLU as the “transmission belt” for Communist policy.

Today Americans have lost sight of the fact that at one time the Communist Party was the world’s premier enemy of liberty. While communism may be “dead,” the “transmission belt” for the oppressive ideology it represented continues to operate unabated. How to stop it is what this book is all about.


Among the shocking positions for which the ACLU has argued in court are:

The distribution of child pornography, no matter how vile and brutal it may be, as a “free speech” right. “The ACLU believes that once child pornography is produced, there should be no legal restrictions on its distribution,” said Osten. “I seriously doubt the Founding Fathers had this in mind.”

Limiting the freedom of parents to pass their faith and values on to their children. Osten noted that the ACLU has been very aggressive working with homosexual organizations like the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network in pushing “tolerance” and “diversity” training in public schools in some states. “Some of these programs indoctrinate kids to reject the values of their parents, and parents cannot opt their children out of the training,” he said.

But despite deep pockets and decades of victory in their war on American values, the ACLU can be stopped — if enough concerned Americans wake up and begin to expose its dark and dangerous agenda. The first step is being fully educated on the ACLU’s agenda and standard operating procedures, and to inform others as well. The ACLU vs. America is a great tool for doing both.

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There have been an abundance of books exposing the ACLU for what it really stands for, here is one; The ACLU on Trial, by William H. McIlhany (1976)

In the "Harvard Class Book of 1935, spotlighting Baldwin's class of 1905 on its thirtieth anniversary, he was quoted as saying, "I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control by those who produce wealth. Communism is, of course, the goal." He gave this advice in 1917 to an associate who was forming another group:

"Do steer away from making it look like a Socialist enterprise...We want also to look like patriots in everything we do. We want to get a good lot of flags, talk a good deal about the Constitution and what our forefathers wanted to make of this country, and to show that we are really the folks that really stand for the spirit of our institutions."


What were the words of Jesus?? "Be ye not deceived."
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Then you have charlatans like Jimmy Carter who further that cause by awarding Baldwin our highest American civilian honor in the White House.

ACLU lawyer Ruth Bader Ginsberg was confirmed to the US Supreme Court by a vote of 97-3. How does it feel to have a supreme court justice who would lower the age of consent to age 12??????

You're right, we could certainly have another whole thread on this particular topic.
 
#218
#218
It saddens me, because I truly believe that the vast majority of my fellow Americans (I'd say over 75-80%) do not think or feel that way, but the problem is... they either don't have the time to do the research to uncover the lies they have brilliantly buried (raising kids, putting food on the table, and dealing with life is enough for anyone to swallow) or they just can't fathom the people who have taught them, govern them, and "protect" them would be that insidious.

Ah well I seem to have a knack at causing threads to completely derail into a huge train wreck, so I will stop right there ;) .
 
#219
#219
OrangeYankee said:
It saddens me, because I truly believe that the vast majority of my fellow Americans (I'd say over 75-80%) do not think or feel that way, but the problem is... they either don't have the time to do the research to uncover the lies they have brilliantly buried (raising kids, putting food on the table, and dealing with life is enough for anyone to swallow) or they just can't fathom the people who have taught them, govern them, and "protect" them would be that insidious.

Ah well I seem to have a knack at causing threads to completely derail into a huge train wreck, so I will stop right there ;) .
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Well your 75-80% take on how Americans feel about these matters is right on the mark.

An article that should give everyone a clear vision of what the ACLU is for and what the ACLU is against.

The ACLU has already filed suit over the Prop 8 vote.

This time though, if liberal leftist judges thumb their noses at the will of the people, they may find themselves out of a job.

At any rate the ACLU Prop-8 suit is feeble at best.

The ACLU is involved in about 6,000 law suits annually, they love nothing more than intimidating small town America with the threat of financial ruin if ACLU wishes aren't met.
 
#222
#222
volinbham said:
The great irony of this video is the hate, bigotry and stereotyping aimed at anyone who supported Prop 8. Classic.
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hey volinbham, what group supported prop 8 by the largest margin?

it was blacks and hispanics. i believe they voted almost 75-80% in favor. i bet that margin was much greater than the white vote. i think it's ironic that the liberals are basically calling blacks and hispanics haters and bigots. that's pretty ironic.
 
#223
#223
therealUT said:
He is condemned to Hell for willfully turning his back on God. Yes, homosexuality is a mental disorder and perversion. Can you debate my position with reason and logic, citing evidence to conclusively disprove my stance? If the answer is no, then what part of my position is irrational?

I highly doubt you and I will ever run in the same social circles, therefore, I could care less about your parties. Irony? I think not.
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Your opinion only. And one from the far right as well.
 
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