Can Trump TRULY unify the GOP, or has that ship sailed?

[OrangeTsar]

I wish we had the luxury of letting the free market decide completely. Global warming is a danger that must be reckoned with.

The US could cut CO2 emissions to zero tomorrow and it wouldn’t do a bit of good as long as China and India are unlimited.
Unlike a lot of my fellow conservatives, I think man made CO2 is a problem. But I don’t think it is a “the world will end in a few years if we don’t cripple our economy now” problem.
The best thing the US can do is to work to increase energy efficiency for what we DO use and research the heck out of new energy technologies. But trying to force people to buy EVs they don’t want by basically using regulations to get rid of internal combustion isn’t going to do it. Hybrids however would be a GREAT help but no one is pushing those.
And of course, the best short term solution for curbing greenhouse gas emissions, nuclear power, is anathema to most of the people concerned about climate.

 

[volbound1700]

The US could cut CO2 emissions to zero tomorrow and it wouldn’t do a bit of good as long as China and India are unlimited.
Unlike a lot of my fellow conservatives, I think man made CO2 is a problem. But I don’t think it is a “the world will end in a few years if we don’t cripple our economy now” problem.
The best thing the US can do is to work to increase energy efficiency for what we DO use and research the heck out of new energy technologies. But trying to force people to buy EVs they don’t want by basically using regulations to get rid of internal combustion isn’t going to do it. Hybrids however would be a GREAT help but no one is pushing those.
And of course, the best short term solution for curbing greenhouse gas emissions, nuclear power, is anathema to most of the people concerned about climate.

Manufacturing has solved the CO2 outputs on their end with scrubbers. The big polluters are now automobiles and other motorized vehicles. This is why EV is being pushed so hard.

My concern is that all the focus is on CO2 and we are ignoring other pollutants (like water pollution).

 

[OrangeTsar]

Manufacturing has solved the CO2 outputs on their end with scrubbers. The big polluters are now automobiles and other motorized vehicles. This is why EV is being pushed so hard.

My concern is that all the focus is on CO2 and we are ignoring other pollutants (like water pollution).

But as it is, almost all EV electricity comes from fossil fuel production. So we get the CO2 emissions as well as the lost transmission efficiency of the power grid. Then you have the extra pollution (like you mentioned) coming from the production of the batteries.
I feel EVs make people FEEL good but don’t really move the needle on CO2

 

[volbound1700]

But as it is, almost all EV electricity comes from fossil fuel production. So we get the CO2 emissions as well as the lost transmission efficiency of the power grid. Then you have the extra pollution (like you mentioned) coming from the production of the batteries.
I feel EVs make people FEEL good but don’t really move the needle on CO2

Lithium Batteries are a very different pollutant but agree.

Most our utility is low CO2 output: Nuclear, Wind, Solar, or Natural Gas. We moved away from Coal/Oil awhile back to meet CO2 targets. Natural Gas produces some CO2 but it is very low.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I've heard others say similar. More CO2 means bigger plants and more robust yields from farms. I do not know how much the percent of atmospheric CO2 has to increase to observe a tangible a/effect.

Whatever happened to acid rain?

 

[McDad]

Whatever happened to acid rain?

basic chemistry???

 

[StarRaider]

But as it is, almost all EV electricity comes from fossil fuel production. So we get the CO2 emissions as well as the lost transmission efficiency of the power grid. Then you have the extra pollution (like you mentioned) coming from the production of the batteries.
I feel EVs make people FEEL good but don’t really move the needle on CO2

 

[OrangeTsar]

Lithium Batteries are a very different pollutant but agree.

Most our utility is low CO2 output: Nuclear, Wind, Solar, or Natural Gas. We moved away from Coal/Oil awhile back to meet CO2 targets. Natural Gas produces some CO2 but it is very low.

Which makes the recent energy policy of Germany all the more bewildering. They have actually started reopening shuttered coal mines and power plants while simultaneously shutting down all of the nuclear plants

 

[hog88]

Whatever happened to acid rain?

It never got off base.

 

[volbound1700]

Which makes the recent energy policy of Germany all the more bewildering. They have actually started reopening shuttered coal mines and power plants while simultaneously shutting down all of the nuclear plants

People are afraid of Nuclear power... yeah Germany has gotten a lot of flak for their horrible energy process compared to its neighbor France. I work with a lot of Europeans and they have talked about it.

 

[creekdipper]

Whatever happened to acid rain?

Died out with Prince.

 

[OrangeTsar]

People are afraid of Nuclear power... yeah Germany has gotten a lot of flak for their horrible energy process compared to its neighbor France. I work with a lot of Europeans and they have talked about it.

Recent EU elections were interesting indeed. And France’s government is in chaos with Marcon dissolving the legislature.
What a mess
I love Europe and wish I could spend some time there beyond short visits. I wish we had train service as efficient as theirs. I would love to have the option of skipping driving on mid distance trips like Atlanta to Nashville

 

[jvol1]

I think I understand your concern. I don't agree with the premise of AGW but I like to grasp an understanding of others who see it differently. I have two questions related to your reply. The first:

When you say water replenishment, are you referring to the water cycle?

Maybe, I'm not familiar with the water cycle, but the aquifers in some areas appear to be depleting faster than they're replenishing now, and I think gw will make that much worse.

 

[jvol1]

The US could cut CO2 emissions to zero tomorrow and it wouldn’t do a bit of good as long as China and India are unlimited.
Unlike a lot of my fellow conservatives, I think man made CO2 is a problem. But I don’t think it is a “the world will end in a few years if we don’t cripple our economy now” problem.
The best thing the US can do is to work to increase energy efficiency for what we DO use and research the heck out of new energy technologies. But trying to force people to buy EVs they don’t want by basically using regulations to get rid of internal combustion isn’t going to do it. Hybrids however would be a GREAT help but no one is pushing those.
And of course, the best short term solution for curbing greenhouse gas emissions, nuclear power, is anathema to most of the people concerned about climate.

We're on a path to the world ending a few decades, and gw is but one of many ways the freakish satanist-nazi-white power sect that's destabilizing the world use. (Not crazy, I promise, despite how that sounds). I think gw will significantly impact the world food supply and needs to be reckoned with.

I dont see evs as being either/or with combustion engines, but using incentives and regulation to facilitate a switch as the ev technology gets better makes a lot if sense to me.

 

[volbound1700]

Recent EU elections were interesting indeed. And France’s government is in chaos with Marcon dissolving the legislature.
What a mess
I love Europe and wish I could spend some time there beyond short visits. I wish we had train service as efficient as theirs. I would love to have the option of skipping driving on mid distance trips like Atlanta to Nashville

Europe just hasn't been the same since WW2 and Hitler. I feel like the Continent has no identity at times.

 

[hog88]

We're on a path to the world ending a few decades, and gw is but one of many ways the freakish satanist-nazi-white power sect that's destabilizing the world use. (Not crazy, I promise, despite how that sounds). I think gw will significantly impact the world food supply and needs to be reckoned with.

I dont see evs as being either/or with combustion engines, but using incentives and regulation to facilitate a switch as the ev technology gets better makes a lot if sense to me.

Not crazy and yet you make this post?

 

[McDad]

Maybe, I'm not familiar with the water cycle, but the aquifers in some areas appear to be depleting faster than they're replenishing now, and I think gw will make that much worse.

Understand aquifers possibly aren't being replinished.

If global warming increases heat of the planet, would that heat not increase the amount of water evaporated into water vapor into the atmosphere and thus increase the amount of rainfall?

 

[volbound1700]

To answer the OP, Trump on his own CANNOT unify the GOP. However, the Democrats doing frivolous convictions against Trump is working magic to do that.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I love Europe and wish I could spend some time there beyond short visits. I wish we had train service as efficient as theirs. I would love to have the option of skipping driving on mid distance trips like Atlanta to Nashville

You do understand why we do not have "efficient" passenger rail in this country, right?

And I hate to be "that guy", because I know how you guys are, but should we model our rail system after what is in Europe or what is in China right now?

 

[jvol1]

Not crazy and yet you make this post?

I'm glad you're still here for me. I'm not lying to you. I saw something, some plot, that seems to be happening, and it didnt have a happy ending.

Of course, the gw stuff is more a matter of common knowledge.

 

[jvol1]

Understand aquifers possibly aren't being replinished.

If global warming increases heat of the planet, would that heat not increase the amount of water evaporated into water vapor into the atmosphere and thus increase the amount of rainfall?

That's probably true for some areas, but mostly I would imagine it to intensify current conditions, which is projected to impede the ability of the planet to produce enough food to support people.

Here's a NASA map of projected impact:

NASA Study Reveals Compounding Climate Risks at Two Degrees of Warming – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

If global temperatures reach 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above pre-industrial levels, people worldwide could face multiple impacts of climate change simultaneously.

climate.nasa.gov

Theres always going to be room for speculation about future outcomes. In this case, as with trump (or biden), I would say there are sufficient reasons to pause and adjust our course of action.

 

[McDad]

That's probably true for some areas, but mostly I would imagine it to intensify current conditions, which is projected to impede the ability of the planet to produce enough food to support people.

Here's a NASA map of projected impact:

NASA Study Reveals Compounding Climate Risks at Two Degrees of Warming – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

If global temperatures reach 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above pre-industrial levels, people worldwide could face multiple impacts of climate change simultaneously.

climate.nasa.gov

Theres always going to be room for speculation about future outcomes. In this case, as with trump (or biden), I would say there are sufficient reasons to pause and adjust our course of action.

Without using someone else's thoughts on the subject, how would more energy in the water (warmer climate) only produce increased rainfall regionally? I understand weather patterns can and do change...the Sahara was an area full of vegetation 20,000 years ago. But aside from that naturally occurring phenomenon, how do you understand the increase to be limited to regional areas?

 

[volbound1700]

Without using someone else's thoughts on the subject, how would more energy in the water (warmer climate) only produce increased rainfall regionally? I understand weather patterns can and do change...the Sahara was an area full of vegetation 20,000 years ago. But aside from that naturally occurring phenomenon, how do you understand the increase to be limited to regional areas?

I am not sure if this is 100% accurate as written. The Sahara was always a desert, the desert was significantly smaller 20,000 years ago and a lot of are that is now the Sahara was eligible farmland. Desertification turned the Sahara into the massive desert it is today and it continues to grow.

There was still somewhat of a desert there in ancient times as reflected to why Civilizations were huddled around the areas outside the desert such as the Nile, Libyan coasts, etc. This was even true in times of the Pharaohs or distant past with how Civilization developed.

Even from Roman history, we know that modern Tunisia, for example, was a breadbasket and great farmland but there was still desert further inland.

 

[MHS Rebel]

What are the down sides to GW other than longer growing seasons, Canada and Russia having larger arable areas, wetter climate in north Africa. Over the generations populations can migrate away from any coastline that is eroding.

Btw, what is the optimum earth average temperature? Earth will go on its merry way long after humans are gone. We are talking human hubris, forming the planet in what we think WE need. Maybe pandas and polar bears need something else.

 

[volbound1700]

Environmentalism is an area where I somewhat conflict with Conservatives at times.

I see some Conservatives that are openly hostile to any forms of Renewable Energy.

I am in the Middle Ground on it. I don't know enough about Global Warming to determine if it is occuring, what speed, how much mankind is impacting it, etc. I tend to think we are getting warming but some of that is natural and beyond even man's processes. However, man hasn't helped the situation.

The situation on my end is that the argument, to me, is irrelevant in some methods. I am going to take some of the "green" side either way because I don't like the idea of air put into our atmosphere that is unbreathable and I like the idea of experimenting with renewable energy because it is, well, renewable.

For example, Solar is important because Solar Panels are highly effective in Space once you have no atmosphere in the way and it will be vital for space exploration.

At the same time, I don't think it is good to put our economy into disarray to make it work which is what the radical Green movement wants. If there isn't global alignment and we rush the process, we will just crash our economy in favor of others and the Earth doesn't win in the long run. We only need to roll out these technologies when we are ready for them.