Carry Permit Holders

#251
#251
punkcat said:
I don't know where you got this info, but almost all CAD's (computer aided dispatch) programs will tell the officer you have a carry permit when they run the tag. I will usually ask but a little common courtesy would be nice.
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Question? If you ask or if a CC holder volunteers that he has a weapon, we're talking normal traffic stop nothing out of the ordinary, can you take the weapon and run the serial number?
 
#252
#252
punkcat said:
I don't know where you got this info, but almost all CAD's (computer aided dispatch) programs will tell the officer you have a carry permit when they run the tag. I will usually ask but a little common courtesy would be nice.
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Refer to link I posted above. I figured it would show when the tag or drivers license was ran but my point is I am not bringing it up.
 
#254
#254
So I took a little time to try to find TN statutes on presenting your permit in a traffic stop. I couldn't find anything that addresses it in the TN code. The only things I could find were opinions and recommendations, nothing written in stone.

I'm starting to wonder if we're lawfully obliged to present the permit with your license, registration, and proof of insurance.

If anyone does know of anything official in TN (not just what your CP teacher said), please share. Thanks!
 
#255
#255
I'm glad we took up this topic in this forum. Though no definite conclusions yet, it has been very informative. At least for me it has been.
 
#256
#256
Chris4Vols22 said:
So I took a little time to try to find TN statutes on presenting your permit in a traffic stop. I couldn't find anything that addresses it in the TN code. The only things I could find were opinions and recommendations, nothing written in stone.

I'm starting to wonder if we're lawfully obliged to present the permit with your license, registration, and proof of insurance.

If anyone does know of anything official in TN (not just what your CP teacher said), please share. Thanks!
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That would be nice, I'd also like to know what kind of training LEO gets in dealing with CC holders so we could all be on the same page.
 
#257
#257
Chris4Vols22 said:
So I took a little time to try to find TN statutes on presenting your permit in a traffic stop. I couldn't find anything that addresses it in the TN code. The only things I could find were opinions and recommendations, nothing written in stone.

I'm starting to wonder if we're lawfully obliged to present the permit with your license, registration, and proof of insurance.

If anyone does know of anything official in TN (not just what your CP teacher said), please share. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Your permit is tied to your license. If you look at your permit it should have the same number as your drivers license. You are not obligated to tell the officer you are carrying and he does have the right to secure your weapon. Which depending on the officer could mean basically give you a hard time.

LexisNexis® Custom Solution: Tennessee Code Research Tool

(n) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for four (4) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer.



(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.
 
#258
#258
Chris4Vols22 said:
So I took a little time to try to find TN statutes on presenting your permit in a traffic stop. I couldn't find anything that addresses it in the TN code. The only things I could find were opinions and recommendations, nothing written in stone.

I'm starting to wonder if we're lawfully obliged to present the permit with your license, registration, and proof of insurance.

If anyone does know of anything official in TN (not just what your CP teacher said), please share. Thanks!
Click to expand...

This does not appear to convey any "requirement" to inform. That's not to say it might not be a good idea but there you go.

(n) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for four (4) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer.

This seemed worth posting considering the topic.


(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.
 
#259
#259
Hopvol said:
Your permit is tied to your license. If you look at your permit it should have the same number as your drivers license. You are not obligated to tell the officer you are carrying and he does have the right to secure your weapon. Which depending on the officer could mean basically give you a hard time.

LexisNexis® Custom Solution: Tennessee Code Research Tool

(n) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for four (4) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer.



(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.
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Thanks. So it appears the LEO has no authority to run the serial number unless he has probable cause to think it is stolen.
 
#261
#261
hog88 said:
Thanks. So it appears the LEO has no authority to run the serial number unless he has probable cause to think it is stolen.
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I don't think probable cause is necessary. It reads, when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. So basically if he feels like it.
 
#262
#262
Hopvol said:
I don't think probable cause is necessary. It reads, when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. So basically if he feels like it.
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I read it as he can secure the weapon but it didn't say anything about running a check.
 
#263
#263
hog88 said:
I read it as he can secure the weapon but it didn't say anything about running a check.
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Correct but once he has it he can do whatever he wants to it. As I understand it there is no official procedure which is why I would love to have some input here from LEO. This is one cops routine from the link I posted yesterday.

When I approach a vehicle I start every interaction the same: “Hello, I’m Deputy Bales from the Sheriff’s Office, I stopped you today because . Could I please see your driver’s license and insurance card?” Almost every officer has a canned phrase to give drivers that he stops. Let him finish before announcing “I have a gun!” After he finishes calmly state “Officer, just so you know I have a Concealed Carry Endorsement and my weapon is would you like for me to hand it to you?” Do not assume that the officer wants you to hand it to him, while 99.99% of police officers will ask that you do indeed hand it to them, there are a few that will ask you to exit the vehicle and they will remove it themselves. Under no circumstances will I return to my vehicle with a loaded weapon still in yours, so don’t get the idea that it is violating your rights for me to hold onto your gun for a few minutes. Most importantly, if you take nothing else from this article please remember that the absolute WORST thing you can do is immediately reach for it without him asking you to. This will result in a very uncomfortable situation for both of you. “Why can’t I keep my gun with me since I've got a CCW and it’s a legal firearm?” Simply put, just because you may know it is legal doesn't mean that I do. And every officer has seen enough horror films in the police academy to last a lifetime and leave the impression that every gun can kill you. Once I have your weapon with me, along with your driver’s license and insurance I then return to my vehicle and provide dispatch with the serial number of the weapon as well as your license information. Now that I know it is a legal firearm we are on to the next step.

Getting Your Gun Back
Some officers will approach your vehicle and simply hand you the gun. This practice is largely out dated and most officers are going to the system I was taught. While I am in my vehicle –and after I have been told the gun isn't stolen- I remove the magazine and unload the weapon. I will then take all of the bullets out of the magazine. I will re-approach your car, explain that you are/aren't getting a citation, I am handing you a bunch of bullets to be put straight in the cup holder, and that I am going to place your firearm in the back seat and the magazine a few feet away from it. I then explain that under no circumstances are you to mess with that weapon until I am out of sight. I then return to my vehicle and leave.
 
#264
#264
Hopvol said:
Correct but once he has it he can do whatever he wants to it. As I understand it there is no official procedure which is why I would love to have some input here from LEO. This is one cops routine from the link I posted yesterday.

When I approach a vehicle I start every interaction the same: “Hello, I’m Deputy Bales from the Sheriff’s Office, I stopped you today because . Could I please see your driver’s license and insurance card?” Almost every officer has a canned phrase to give drivers that he stops. Let him finish before announcing “I have a gun!” After he finishes calmly state “Officer, just so you know I have a Concealed Carry Endorsement and my weapon is would you like for me to hand it to you?” Do not assume that the officer wants you to hand it to him, while 99.99% of police officers will ask that you do indeed hand it to them, there are a few that will ask you to exit the vehicle and they will remove it themselves. Under no circumstances will I return to my vehicle with a loaded weapon still in yours, so don’t get the idea that it is violating your rights for me to hold onto your gun for a few minutes. Most importantly, if you take nothing else from this article please remember that the absolute WORST thing you can do is immediately reach for it without him asking you to. This will result in a very uncomfortable situation for both of you. “Why can’t I keep my gun with me since I've got a CCW and it’s a legal firearm?” Simply put, just because you may know it is legal doesn't mean that I do. And every officer has seen enough horror films in the police academy to last a lifetime and leave the impression that every gun can kill you. Once I have your weapon with me, along with your driver’s license and insurance I then return to my vehicle and provide dispatch with the serial number of the weapon as well as your license information. Now that I know it is a legal firearm we are on to the next step.

Getting Your Gun Back
Some officers will approach your vehicle and simply hand you the gun. This practice is largely out dated and most officers are going to the system I was taught. While I am in my vehicle –and after I have been told the gun isn't stolen- I remove the magazine and unload the weapon. I will then take all of the bullets out of the magazine. I will re-approach your car, explain that you are/aren't getting a citation, I am handing you a bunch of bullets to be put straight in the cup holder, and that I am going to place your firearm in the back seat and the magazine a few feet away from it. I then explain that under no circumstances are you to mess with that weapon until I am out of sight. I then return to my vehicle and leave.
Click to expand...

I have never experienced an officer like that but if I did there would be a complaint filed as soon as he finished his business with me. I wouldn't be stupid enough to argue on site with him.

A LEO has no right nor business unloading my legally possessed firearm during a routine traffic stop. God forbid I find it scratched, or damaged by his actions, which I probably would.
 
#265
#265
hog88 said:
I have never experienced an officer like that but if I did there would be a complaint filed as soon as he finished his business with me. I wouldn't be stupid enough to argue on site with him.

A LEO has no right nor business unloading my legally possessed firearm during a routine traffic stop. God forbid I find it scratched, or damaged by his actions, which I probably would.
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I dont disagree with you, that is why I would like to hear some LEO chime in. I dont think there is a written procedure for them to follow and the way the law is written they do have the right to disarm you in a traffic stop. This is why I have not and will not tell them I am armed unless asked.
 
#266
#266
I don't understand the psychology of needing to carry a gun everywhere. Can someone enlighten me? I'm not knocking it, just trying to understand it.
 
#267
#267
Cecil Basil said:
I don't understand the psychology of needing to carry a gun everywhere. Can someone enlighten me? I'm not knocking it, just trying to understand it.
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Certainly, I have talked to lots of people who share that opinion. May I ask you a question first? Do you keep up with the news? Local or national?
 
#268
#268
Cecil Basil said:
I don't understand the psychology of needing to carry a gun everywhere. Can someone enlighten me? I'm not knocking it, just trying to understand it.
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Just look to SC and the guy killed by board teenagers. I also travel a lot and sometimes into not so nice areas.
 
#269
#269
Cecil Basil said:
I don't understand the psychology of needing to carry a gun everywhere. Can someone enlighten me? I'm not knocking it, just trying to understand it.
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Wrong word. If I knew in advance when and where I "needed" to carry a weapon there'd be little point in carrying any other time. I have yet to figure out how to do that. Have you?
 
#271
#271
hndog609 said:
Wrong word. If I knew in advance when and where I "needed" to carry a weapon there'd be little point in carrying any other time. I have yet to figure out how to do that. Have you?
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Ok, I'll play your game. I don't understand the psychology of WANTING to carry a gun.
 
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#273
#273
hog88 said:
Just look to SC and the guy killed by board teenagers. I also travel a lot and sometimes into not so nice areas.
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Traveling I can actually understand. It's the part where one takes a gun with them to run to the gas station, that's what I don't understand.
 
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