CBO declares Ryan's proposal will dramatically increase deficits

#51
#51
utgibbs said:
hohenvol raised a good point on this. The "source" for human rights - do they come from the Deity? do they come from the universe at large? Certainly "freedom, liberty, free speech, and religion" are not universal. There are restrictions on all of these.

For me, human beings create universal rights. This is the one and only source. As the signatories on the UDoHR suggest, the vast supermajority of the world's population do believe these are universal rights. :hi: And thus they have the weight of moral authority.
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that means human beings can take them away. Do you really want to live in that world?

ok, that's a rhetorical question given how much you slurp up the Castro Brothers' Kool-Aid.
 
#56
#56
one is only bound if it can be enforced right?

even more reason to get out of that useless org. We waste too much money keeping them afloat
 
#57
#57
MG1968 said:
that means human beings can take them away. Do you really want to live in that world?

ok, that's a rhetorical question given how much you slurp up the Castro Brothers' Kool-Aid.
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This is true. But that is the world we live in. Has "universal rights" outside the human sphere liberated Cuba in your mind? How did it do for Russia under Stalin? Hitler?

Hence, the alpha and omega must be human beings.
 
#58
#58
utvolpj said:
one is only bound if it can be enforced right?

even more reason to get out of that useless org. We waste too much money keeping them afloat
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Of course.

But what does that say about your "universal rights" then? If the law is only meaningful when it can be enforced, welcome to Hobbes and "nasty, brutish, and short."
 
#59
#59
it says that I believe nothing the UN puts out is worth anything. Sign all the feel good, fluffy bunny treaties you want but it doesn't mean what you believe it does
 
#60
#60
utgibbs said:
This is true. But that is the world we live in. Has "universal rights" outside the human sphere liberated Cuba in your mind? How did it do for Russia under Stalin? Hitler?

Hence, the alpha and omega must be human beings.
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now I know what will happen to people like me if people like you ever attain power in the United States.
 
#61
#61
MG1968 said:
then explain why there are more MRI machines on Long Island than there are in all of Canada
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Explain why Canadians live longer, healthier lives and pay half of what we do for health care despite more MRIs on Long Island.

If anything, this just shows how INEFFICIENT the system truly is.
 
#62
#62
Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
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and is this what you're harping on?
 
#65
#65
utgibbs said:
Explain why Canadians live longer, healthier lives and pay half of what we do for health care despite more MRIs on Long Island.

If anything, this just shows how INEFFICIENT the system truly is.
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tell that to the Canadian living in pain because their appointment for an MRI machine is 6 months from now

also explain why Canadian politicians routinely travel to the US for medical care
 
#66
#66
Even if human rights are created by human beings your argument is still flawed to its core. As much as you want for everyone to have a right to medical care they don't. Medical care is dependent on those that provide it. So I go back to my question, is it really your view to force people to provide health care to others? Should that be a core value of a free society?

What about the other "human rights?" Should we as a society force people to provide you with those too? If there is one preacher in a small town and he decides to retire, do we hold a gun to his head and make him deliver a sermon every Sunday? If not, why should we force doctors and nurses to provide medical care?

I realize that it may sound inhumane, but we do live in a free society. Economic tyranny is no less burdensome or a threat to liberty than threats to our civil rights.
 
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#67
#67
utgibbs said:
Actually, it's a Universal Human Right for everybody, not just the elderly, of which we are a signatory.
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Agreed. We short force all doctors to serve a two year sentence in Alaska right out of residency so that the under-served folks out there aren't deprived of basic human rights.
 
#68
#68
utgibbs said:
Health care is not a market. The private sector has no incentive for efficiency in delivering health care.
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We signed a non-binding declaration; it is not a treating and has no legal standing in the US.
 
#69
#69
utgibbs said:
For me, human beings create universal rights. This is the one and only source. As the signatories on the UDoHR suggest, the vast supermajority of the world's population do believe these are universal rights. :hi: And thus they have the weight of moral authority.
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China, India, and every Arab signatory to the Cairo Declaration are laughing at this "supermajority".
 
#70
#70
kptvol said:
Agreed. We short force all doctors to serve a two year sentence in Alaska right out of residency so that the under-served folks out there aren't deprived of basic human rights.
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but don't doctors have rights? Or is it that once they have gone through 10+ years of education they should be forced into what is essentially slavery?

I must say, gibbs' "real world" sucks, plug me back into the matrix.
 
#71
#71
MG1968 said:
tell that to the Canadian living in pain because their appointment for an MRI machine is 6 months from now

also explain why Canadian politicians routinely travel to the US for medical care
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Are we going to throw out a bunch of our MRIs if we go to universal health care??? Why does everyone automatically think if we go to some type of single payer system, that it will automatically be identical to other socialized healthcare systems? It bewilders me that people instantly forget our resources are second to none in the healthcare industry when speaking of universal care
 
#72
#72
shortgameVol said:
Are we going to throw out a bunch of our MRIs if we go to universal health care??? Why does everyone automatically think if we go to some type of single payer system, that it will automatically be identical to other socialized healthcare systems? It bewilders me that people instantly forget our resources are second to none in the healthcare industry when speaking of universal care
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MRI machines and other high-tech devices require large amounts of money to operate, maintain, etc. In a single payer system, financial resources are finite, there is simply no way to effectively provide revenue to the US healthcare infrastructure through the congressional appropriation process.
 
#73
#73
shortgameVol said:
Are we going to throw out a bunch of our MRIs if we go to universal health care??? Why does everyone automatically think if we go to some type of single payer system, that it will automatically be identical to other socialized healthcare systems? It bewilders me that people instantly forget our resources are second to none in the healthcare industry when speaking of universal care
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gibbs seems to believe that if the us went universal healthcare it'd be as cheap as other countries. most people here are arguing what you are. taht the extra cost is because of access and technology.
 
#74
#74
shortgameVol said:
Are we going to throw out a bunch of our MRIs if we go to universal health care??? Why does everyone automatically think if we go to some type of single payer system, that it will automatically be identical to other socialized healthcare systems? It bewilders me that people instantly forget our resources are second to none in the healthcare industry when speaking of universal care
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Market-forces in HC (hope that didn't make Gibbs head explode) definitely have contributed to technological advancement.

There is no doubt in my mind that if we go single payer, universal then medical innovation will slow since the largest consumer of said innovation will change demand patterns.

Externalities my friends, externalities.
 
#75
#75
MG1968 said:
but don't doctors have rights? Or is it that once they have gone through 10+ years of education they should be forced into what is essentially slavery?

I must say, gibbs' "real world" sucks, plug me back into the matrix.
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Doctors are just rich jerks benefiting from the system redistributing wealth upwards by taxing away half of what they earn. They should be happy to help out.
 
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