CBO declares Ryan's proposal will dramatically increase deficits

#76
#76
shortgameVol said:
Are we going to throw out a bunch of our MRIs if we go to universal health care??? Why does everyone automatically think if we go to some type of single payer system, that it will automatically be identical to other socialized healthcare systems? It bewilders me that people instantly forget our resources are second to none in the healthcare industry when speaking of universal care
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If UHC is anything like the free healthcare our government provides now, expect to wait a long time to have things done so the trash in front of you can schedule 3-4 appointments and miss all of them.
 
#77
#77
kptvol said:
If UHC is anything like the free healthcare our government provides now, expect to wait a long time to have things done so the trash in front of you can schedule 3-4 appointments and miss all of them.
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Little harsh, no?
 
#78
#78
rjd970 said:
Little harsh, no?
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No. If you're too inconsiderate to call and cancel, or even inform the person that calls with a reminder the day before that you won't be coming, and in so doing prevent someone else from getting seen, and you do this over and over, you're trash.
 
#79
#79
kptvol said:
No. If you're too inconsiderate to call and cancel, or even inform the person that calls with a reminder the day before that you won't be coming, and in so doing prevent someone else from getting seen, and you do this over and over, you're trash.
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ok
 
#80
#80
droski said:
gotcha. anything that supports your world view is fact. understood.
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Generally, since my world view is shaped by the real world outside the back door.

That's my starting place; you, on the other hand, start from a point of ideology. As Mark Twain said:

It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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#81
#81
MG1968 said:
tell that to the Canadian living in pain because their appointment for an MRI machine is 6 months from now

also explain why Canadian politicians routinely travel to the US for medical care
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Americans routinely travel to Mexico for health care! In fact, Americans are the largest group of "medical tourists" in the world, I do believe.
 
#82
#82
jdavis675 said:
Even if human rights are created by human beings your argument is still flawed to its core. As much as you want for everyone to have a right to medical care they don't. Medical care is dependent on those that provide it. So I go back to my question, is it really your view to force people to provide health care to others? Should that be a core value of a free society?

What about the other "human rights?" Should we as a society force people to provide you with those too? If there is one preacher in a small town and he decides to retire, do we hold a gun to his head and make him deliver a sermon every Sunday? If not, why should we force doctors and nurses to provide medical care?

I realize that it may sound inhumane, but we do live in a free society. Economic tyranny is no less burdensome or a threat to liberty than threats to our civil rights.
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This is one of the most remarkably debased posts I've ever seen on VN.

The "economic tyranny" is clear. It is cheaper to go single payer. You are abusing my freedom and my rights. You, sir, are impinging upon my economic freedom in a big way.
 
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#84
#84
volinbham said:
Market-forces in HC (hope that didn't make Gibbs head explode) definitely have contributed to technological advancement.

There is no doubt in my mind that if we go single payer, universal then medical innovation will slow since the largest consumer of said innovation will change demand patterns.

Externalities my friends, externalities.
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Market forces absolutely have not contributed to technological advances in health care as we demonstrated (hope your head doesn't explode). The public sector funds almost ALL high technology development -whether health care or other industries. We went through a thread like this and the data was unambiguous. And then, when that caused a few heads to explode, droski and MG decided to try the anecdotal route. They started highlighting out some medical technologies - to their chagrin, all of which had been developed in a single payer health care system. I seem to recall a droski using joint replacement technology (pioneered in England) at a "private" Pittsburgh university which was 99% funded by federal and local government.

Simply does not wash with the real world in any way, shape, or form.

In fact, I'm pretty damn certain MRI technology came out of Cambridge University. :hi:
 
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#85
#85
kptvol said:
Agreed. We short force all doctors to serve a two year sentence in Alaska right out of residency so that the under-served folks out there aren't deprived of basic human rights.
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I believe Joel Fleishman got his Columbia education on the back of the good people of Cicely. He did sign a contract..... Certainly in your world view if he had signed a contract to be a slave, he must abide by it.

In fact, Northern Exposure is a perfect example of good market principles at work. :hi:
 
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#86
#86
kptvol said:
No. If you're too inconsiderate to call and cancel, or even inform the person that calls with a reminder the day before that you won't be coming, and in so doing prevent someone else from getting seen, and you do this over and over, you're trash.
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Why is there so much anger in you?
 
#87
#87
utgibbs said:
Why is there so much anger in you?
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There are people out there that need care and because of irresponsible people I spend some days twiddling my thumbs instead of treating patients. And the worst part is that a lot of them are kids whose parents don't give a damn about them.
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#88
#88
kptvol said:
There are people out there that need care and because of irresponsible people I spend some days twiddling my thumbs instead of treating patients. And the worst part is that a lot of them are kids whose parents don't give a damn about them.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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But these are the hero citizens of the culture you prize so highly:

black-friday-stampede.jpg
 
#90
#90
utgibbs said:
Generally, since my world view is shaped by the real world outside the back door.

That's my starting place; you, on the other hand, start from a point of ideology. As Mark Twain said:
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You're clearly the least idealogical on the board. The silliness about universal rights and everyone needing a new mindset toatch yours are just practicality speaking.
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#91
#91
BigPapaVol said:
You're clearly the least idealogical on the board. The silliness about universal rights and everyone needing a new mindset toatch yours are just practicality speaking.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Obviously shared by the supermajority of the human race.
 
#92
#92
To get this back on track, it is clear the Ryan proposal is imposing economic tyranny on the general population, especially the elderly. His option will have runaway health care costs, the burden of which will be paid by the elderly, while the single payer option will drastically cut those costs.

Surely this cannot stand. Economic freedom = individual liberty does it not?

I have seen a lot about "economic tyranny." I think it's time to put up or shut-up.
 
#96
#96
BigPapaVol said:
I'm not sure you could have actually posted anything more meaningless, you man of the functional you.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I know. A study of every country in the world save Myanmar and North Korea greets the UDoHR with supermajority of approval.

It is completely meaningless. Of course it is - to the VolNation nihilists.
 
#97
#97
utgibbs said:
I know. A study of every country in the world save Myanmar and North Korea greets the UDoHR with supermajority of approval.

It is completely meaningless. Of course it is - to the VolNation nihilists.
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It was a talk about the study and said nothing of universal rights, particularly your lunacy about healthcare.
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#99
#99
utgibbs said:
India and China both provide universal health care. :hi:
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Keep your hat on and take a visit to India. If you consider what they provide to be "universal health care" in anything other than name only, then I am at a loss for words. The health care situation in India and the lack of access to health care for a large section of the population borders is absolutely astounding. There is a reason that Mother Theresa set up shop in Calcutta; there is a reason that under-staffed hospitals run by nuns dominate the sub-continent; the reason is that the government is not providing anything in the way of health care to the majority of its denizens.

And, now, to the main point: the fact that these countries give lip-service to Universal Healthcare in no way leads to the following conclusion:

As the signatories on the UDoHR suggest, the vast supermajority of the world's population do believe these are universal rights.
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#100
#100
so the gov't forcing me to buy their product (when I already have a better one now) = economic freedom and individual liberty?
 
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