Chaz Lanier watch thread

#101
#101
bleedingTNorange said:
That would make more sense if the stretch of 5 games being discussed immediately followed that injury and didn’t have 2 games sandwiched in between in which he shot pretty well. Lol
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1 game that he shot "pretty well", which was Illinois. 4 of 11 against George Mason is worse than the 4 of 10 that he did against Norfolk State that you and others are including as part of the slump.
 
#102
#102
whobethis16 said:
1 game that he shot "pretty well", which was Illinois. 4 of 11 against George Mason is worse than the 4 of 10 that he did against Norfolk State that you and others are including as part of the slump.
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The 2 game averages post injury > averages of the 5 game slump following those 2 games
 
#103
#103
whobethis16 said:
How quickly people forget Knecht's stretch was due to an injury
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What about the 4 game stretch against Kentucky, LSU, Arkansas, and Vandy where he shot 5 of 18 (27.8%) from 3?

Even when healthy DK still had cold nights from deep. Difference I've seen so far is he was willing to drive to the rim and shoot FTs to offset those cold shooting nights.

Chaz has only had 3 games in 17 where he shot under 30% from deep. DK did it 12 times last season in his 36 games.

The difference though DK still averaged 15.2 ppg in those cold nights. Chaz in his 3 6.7 ppg.

He has to find some balance so he can get buckets when the 3 isn't dropping. DK had that and Chaz still has to show it.
 
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#105
#105
MoCo_Vol said:
What about the 4 game stretch against Kentucky, LSU, Arkansas, and Vandy where he shot 5 of 18 (27.8%) from 3?

Even when healthy DK still had cold nights from deep. Difference I've seen so far is he was willing to drive to the rim and shoot FTs to offset those cold shooting nights.

Chaz has only had 3 games in 17 where he shot under 30% from deep. DK did it 12 times last season in his 36 games.

The difference though DK still averaged 15.2 ppg in those cold nights. Chaz in his 3 6.7 ppg.

He has to find some balance so he can get buckets when the 3 isn't dropping. DK had that and Chaz still has to show it.
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And I don’t think he will, that’s not what Chaz is and that’s been said multiple times…he’s likely to have to shoot well from midrange and 3 to be effective, he doesn’t have the same ability at the rim DK had.
 
#107
#107
bleedingTNorange said:
And I don’t think he will, that’s not what Chaz is and that’s been said multiple times…he’s likely to have to shoot well from midrange and 3 to be effective, he doesn’t have the same ability at the rim DK had.
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That's not entirely true. Chaz is averaging 7 2 point attempts per game right now, they aren't all drives to the rim though but he does take shots outside just 3s.

The difference has just been %, last season he shot 60.3% on his 2PAs (obviously lesser competition, but still). This year thus far it's down to 40.3%

That's honestly the biggest difference from last season with North Florida and this season.
 
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#108
#108
bleedingTNorange said:
How quickly folks forget that Dalton Knecht had a 5 game stretch in which he averaged 7.6ppg on 32% from the field and 26% from 3.
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Knecht 5 game slump...
22.2 mpg
32.4%/26.7% on 37 total shots
7.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg

Lanier 3 game slump...
32 mpg
18.6%/16.7% on 43 total shots
8.3 ppg, 5 rpg

Knecht shot better on fewer attempts in less minutes. In other words, his efficiency, wasn't at an embarrassing level, even at his below average shooting percentage.

I think we can all agree we want Lanier to keep shooting, but his efficiency rating for the number of shots he's hoisting up has got to improve. His PER in SEC play, even including the Arkansas game, is easily worst on the team.
 
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#109
#109
cncchris33 said:
Knecht 5 game slump...
22.2 mpg
32.4%/26.7% on 37 total shots
7.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg

Lanier 3 game slump...
32 mpg
18.6%/16.7% on 43 total shots
8.3 ppg, 5 rpg

Knecht shot better on fewer attempts in less minutes. In other words, his efficiency, wasn't at an embarrassing level, even at his below average shooting percentage.

I think we can all agree we want Lanier to keep shooting, but his efficiency rating for the number of shots he's hoisting up has got to improve. His PER in SEC play, even including the Arkansas game, is easily worst on the team.
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To be fair... Chaz has faced 2 of the top defenses in the country during his slump.

Florida is 16th on Kenpom
Georgia is 17th
 
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#110
#110
Last year when DK had big games, we became too dependent on him. As teams focused on him more, we had no (other) option. That made it harder for DK to score. This year I think the team is responding better by distributing the guard scoring burden onto Gainey, ZZ, and now Mashack. As long as that keeps happening, Lanier will thrive. His shot will eventually return and teams won’t drop off everyone, but him. He has to shoot better, but I actually think that will happen naturally if he isn’t our only option.
 
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#111
#111
MoCo_Vol said:
To be fair... Chaz has faced 2 of the top defenses in the country during his slump.

Florida is 16th on Kenpom
Georgia is 17th
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Yeah, but he's getting open looks. It isn't like he's forcing shots up with a hand in his face each time, especially with his lightning-quick release. The looks are there...he's just not hitting, right now.
 
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#113
#113
cncchris33 said:
Yeah, but he's getting open looks. It isn't like he's forcing shots up with a hand in his face each time, especially with his lightning-quick release. The looks are there...he's just not hitting, right now.
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This is my concern is that a lot of looks yesterday were wide open. Yesterday seemed like a confidence issue but could be wrong.
 
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#114
#114
cncchris33 said:
Yeah, but he's getting open looks. It isn't like he's forcing shots up with a hand in his face each time, especially with his lightning-quick release. The looks are there...he's just not hitting, right now.
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I know you've played basketball, playing against defenders that work you the whole game and getting an open look isn't the same as playing a lazy defender and getting an open look. Chaz's shots though haven't been off by much and quite a few looked good.

Still one guy's 3 game slump has been in 2 road games and 1 home game where he was facing 3 top 50 defensive efficiency rated teams, 2 of which are top 20.

DK's % were partly better because those teams were terrible defensive teams. He was mostly shooting less volume than normal and recovering from an injury.

I think Chaz has basically gotten the "punch in the mouth" that is playing in the SEC every night and hasn't figured out yet how to respond. Would love to say it gets easier... but

Vandy is ranked 62nd
Miss State is ranked 40th
Auburn is ranked 14th

Kentucky is the next matchup where we face a less efficient defense, they're 74th currently.
 
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#116
#116
I'm not that concerned at the moment, but if in 2 weeks this is still happening, then yeah we got a problem.
 
#117
#117
TheMookieMonster said:
True. But it’s not going to get any easier. We still face Auburn, Ole Miss, and Texas A&M who are 14, 11, and 12 in AdjD and he has to face Florida again.
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Nope, but we know he's a great shooter. If the rest of the team can take pressure off by scoring when they've got good looks it'll allow him more clean looks and as long as he stays confident and takes them he'll return to hitting them again.

I still think the key (especially in March) will come down to turnovers and how effective our rebounding is. We can and will win games where we don't shoot well.
 
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#118
#118
MoCo_Vol said:
That's not entirely true. Chaz is averaging 7 2 point attempts per game right now, they aren't all drives to the rim though but he does take shots outside just 3s.

The difference has just been %, last season he shot 60.3% on his 2PAs (obviously lesser competition, but still). This year thus far it's down to 40.3%

That's honestly the biggest difference from last season with North Florida and this season.
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Well that’s why I specifically mentioned midrange, he takes plenty of those, he averages about 1 rim attempt 2 per game, that’s a huge difference between him and DK.
 
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#119
#119
cncchris33 said:
Knecht 5 game slump...
22.2 mpg
32.4%/26.7% on 37 total shots
7.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg

Lanier 3 game slump...
32 mpg
18.6%/16.7% on 43 total shots
8.3 ppg, 5 rpg

Knecht shot better on fewer attempts in less minutes. In other words, his efficiency, wasn't at an embarrassing level, even at his below average shooting percentage.

I think we can all agree we want Lanier to keep shooting, but his efficiency rating for the number of shots he's hoisting up has got to improve. His PER in SEC play, even including the Arkansas game, is easily worst on the team.
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If you want to argue about who’s crappy shooting and slump was worse go ahead, wasn’t my point, my point was that DK also had a bad shooting stretch. He was taking more shots per minute than Lanier currently is during that same stretch listed, so as much as Lanier is shooting DK was shooting even more in his minutes played. He needs to shoot better than his current 3 game numbers, not sure you’ll find anyone who disagrees with that sentiment, same was said for DK during that 5 game stretch.
 
#120
#120
bleedingTNorange said:
Well that’s why I specifically mentioned midrange, he takes plenty of those, he averages about 1 rim attempt 2 per game, that’s a huge difference between him and DK.
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I don't know the data on rim attempts and haven't tracked either of their shots. I do believe from watching them DK took more shots at the rim though. Not disputing that point.

I'm just saying Chaz isn't JUST a 3 point shooter. Santi though was an example of just a deep shooter for his career.

71.9% of Santi's attempts were from 3
54.8% of Chaz's attempts this year are from 3
40.6% of DK's attempts last year were from 3

And I'm not implying or saying YOU made that claim. It's just the point I was making.
 
#121
#121
bleedingTNorange said:
If you want to argue about who’s crappy shooting and slump was worse go ahead, wasn’t my point, my point was that DK also had a bad shooting stretch. He was taking more shots per minute than Lanier currently is during that same stretch listed, so as much as Lanier is shooting DK was shooting even more in his minutes played. He needs to shoot better than his current 3 game numbers, not sure you’ll find anyone who disagrees with that sentiment, same was said for DK during that 5 game stretch.
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How do you figure?

Knecht 5-gm slump...
111 minutes and 37 shots equals .33 shots per minute.

Lanier 3-gm slump...
96 minutes and 43 shots equals .45 shots per minute.
 
#122
#122
cncchris33 said:
How do you figure?

Knecht 5-gm slump...
111 minutes and 37 shots equals .33 shots per minute.

Lanier 3-gm slump...
96 minutes and 43 shots equals .45 shots per minute.
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You’re correct, did the math incorrectly

My point remains though about both shooting poorly, inefficiently, in a slump etc and thus both needing to shoot better than they both were in this stretch. Neither were shooting it good enough to continue to warrant the number of shots they were taking unless those numbers changed, my guess is Lofton had himself a cold stretch or 2 also, Knecht’s lasted 5 games, Lanier is at 3, I wouldn’t sound the alarm for benching the guy like some would seemingly be suggesting. I think it would also be fair to mention the higher defensive metrics Lanier is posting as potentially helping offset some of those inefficiencies as well.

My hunch is Barnes knows much like last year with DK, if he (Lanier) doesn’t get going and he a top offensive option we are likely in a really bad spot…he should and will get every chance to bust out of a shooting slump, just like every elite offensive shooter would. Again, the dude is on pace to break Lofton’s 3pt record, shooters get cold, even the best of them, I would press the panic button after 3 games.
 
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#123
#123
I’m hopeful that the last 2 games against Texas and Georgia will present enough tape to show that our other guards can beat teams and Lanier won’t be keyed on quite as intensely as he has been. He’s missing open shots, sure, but he’s still be hounded on the perimeter and hasn’t handled it well.

We need to just develop consistency scoring the basketball elsewhere, and last night was an encouraging sign, as that can help with busting the slump. Besides, while we do need Lanier to be his All-American caliber self to make a Final Four, we also can’t be like the team last year that turned to DK to save us and when he couldn’t do it alone we lost. Last night was an encouraging sign. We just need to do it more frequently.
 
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#124
#124
bleedingTNorange said:
You’re correct, did the math incorrectly

My point remains though about both shooting poorly, inefficiently, in a slump etc and thus both needing to shoot better than they both were in this stretch. Neither were shooting it good enough to continue to warrant the number of shots they were taking unless those numbers changed, my guess is Lofton had himself a cold stretch or 2 also, Knecht’s lasted 5 games, Lanier is at 3, I wouldn’t sound the alarm for benching the guy like some would seemingly be suggesting. I think it would also be fair to mention the higher defensive metrics Lanier is posting as potentially helping offset some of those inefficiencies as well.

My hunch is Barnes knows much like last year with DK, if he (Lanier) doesn’t get going and he a top offensive option we are likely in a really bad spot…he should and will get every chance to bust out of a shooting slump, just like every elite offensive shooter would. Again, the dude is on pace to break Lofton’s 3pt record, shooters get cold, even the best of them, I would press the panic button after 3 games.
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"The number of shots they were taking"? In those 5 games, Knecht had attempts of 7, 7, 7, 10, and 6. Lanier has had 16, 11, and 16. That's a huge difference.
 
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