Chicago War Zone

#251
#251
evillawyer said:
A kilo of cocaine is lighter (1 kilo), harder to detect, more compact, and more valuable (150k street value of a kilo of cocaine) than an AR-15. The kilo of cocaine is sold to multiple end users, making the product fairly affordable for the end user. In contrast, the AR-15 would go to just one user, making it a high dollar purchase, which would of necessity be too expensive for most end users.

You mention the price of black market guns now as being fairly affordable. But the hypo we're supposed to be dealing with is their cost if guns we're all illegal. It would be substantially higher than it is now, pricing out most gangbangers.
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Guns would be RIDICULOUSLY easy to smuggle. Think how many metal car parts cross our border going into or out of Mexico. There’s no way you could search 1% of what moves on the border. You could fill a box with handgun slides and no one will stop it. Train dogs to sniff for metal and be prepared to shut down the economy. Or better yet, the cartels set up 3D printing factories all over their territory and pump out an endless supply of guns. They will find any and every workaround to our systems, just like they have with drugs. And you can guarantee they’d do this, they want their product lines and sales points protected and that means arming them.
 
#252
#252
Hunerwadel said:
Actually Mayor Emanuel said "send them".
'Just Send Them': Emanuel Tells Trump to Send Federal Help

If he can divert funds and resources to build a wall in Texas he can divert funds and resources Chicago. He doesn't have to have the Mayors or Governors permission even though he did have it. Just declare it a National emergency and do it. I don't think he has a clue how to go about it though.
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That doesn't automatically fall over when a new mayor is elected. I would think he & his advisers have put it on the back-burner since Chicago's dumb liberal Mayor seems to not care about what happens to her own city and to the people that live there. She just lives for the paycheck and sleeps at the wheel.
 
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#253
#253
luthervol said:
Problem is, it's to easy for Billy Bob to fill his trunk with 100 guns "legally" purchased in Missouri, drive to Chicago, and make himself and the gun manufacturers a nice little profit.
It's not the laws in Chicago that are failing, it's the laws in other places.
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Build a wall around the states.
 
#255
#255
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
That doesn't automatically fall over when a new mayor is elected. I would think he & his advisers have put it on the back-burner since Chicago's dumb liberal Mayor seems to not care about what happens to her own city and to the people that live there. She just lives for the paycheck and sleeps at the wheel.
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He's the President of Chicago also. If the Mayor doesn't care then he should.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I sincerely would like to see Trump find a solution. I will support any sincere effort he might take. Like I said, if he is successful it could serve as a model for similar cities and counties.

I don't have an answer short of putting several thousand more LE on the street or enact stronger gun laws. I know the latter is not popular here and the argument is that criminals will still get guns. But we could at least make it harder for them. What would you do?

Electing Republicans might be your first thought but is not a valid answer. Large cities since before Roman times have suffered the exact same problems. A large concentration of people attracts criminals to prey on every one. They prey on the have nots as well as the haves. They often even to cater to them. It's just like a concentration of sheep will attract the wolves.
 
#256
#256
Hunerwadel said:
I get it. Chicago gun violence is totally out of control. Instead of Senators and Mayors carping at each other why doesn't our President step in and solve the problem and use it as a model for other cities. He's already said he would.

"If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!" - Donald Trump January, 2017
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The obvious answer is they would start crying “racist” when thousands of blacks start getting searched and arrested.
 
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#258
#258
lawgator1 said:
What would be probable cause for arrest or reasonable suspicion for stop and frisk?
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Just like NYC, enact enhanced stop and frisk under the guise of safety. Chicago can’t make guns any more illegal than they already are, so some other rights are going to need to be eroded as well.
 
#265
#265
evillawyer said:
Some of the violence in Chicago may be drug cartel related. But most of the gang violence is petty street gang violence. They don't have the capital to pay for guns at exorbitant prices, which would occur if they were outlawed.
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And they would NEVER think of stealing them. You are retarded.
 
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#268
#268
Hunerwadel said:
He's the President of Chicago also. If the Mayor doesn't care then he should.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I sincerely would like to see Trump find a solution. I will support any sincere effort he might take. Like I said, if he is successful it could serve as a model for similar cities and counties.

I don't have an answer short of putting several thousand more LE on the street or enact stronger gun laws. I know the latter is not popular here and the argument is that criminals will still get guns. But we could at least make it harder for them. What would you do?

Electing Republicans might be your first thought but is not a valid answer. Large cities since before Roman times have suffered the exact same problems. A large concentration of people attracts criminals to prey on every one. They prey on the have nots as well as the haves. They often even to cater to them. It's just like a concentration of sheep will attract the wolves.
Click to expand...
the fallacy of this idea is just to push the border of where "weak" gun laws happen. lets say we went with a full on ban. Good bye rights, but now Evillawyer can be happy that people can rob stores in peace, so thats a "win". whats to stop what is already happening from continuing to happen? People just go to where there are weaker laws, will get the guns, maybe somewhat legally although I dont think anyone has proven the guns have been gotten legally. Then the bad actors will take those guns right back into Chicago and continue to sell them illegally. Canada is literally a boat ride away. or lets say the globalists win and all private guns go away everywhere, black market still exists. people will still run guns.

to the second bolded, so your solution is to make sure the sheep can't defend themselves even after admitting there are wolves and they are a problem?
 
#270
#270
LouderVol said:
the fallacy of this idea is just to push the border of where "weak" gun laws happen. lets say we went with a full on ban. Good bye rights, but now Evillawyer can be happy that people can rob stores in peace, so thats a "win". whats to stop what is already happening from continuing to happen? People just go to where there are weaker laws, will get the guns, maybe somewhat legally although I dont think anyone has proven the guns have been gotten legally. Then the bad actors will take those guns right back into Chicago and continue to sell them illegally. Canada is literally a boat ride away. or lets say the globalists win and all private guns go away everywhere, black market still exists. people will still run guns.

to the second bolded, so your solution is to make sure the sheep can't defend themselves even after admitting there are wolves and they are a problem?
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I didn't say that at all. I just used that as example of what attracts the wolves. Large population centers have always attracted and often sustained a large criminal elements.
 
#271
#271
evillawyer said:
A kilo of cocaine is lighter (1 kilo), harder to detect, more compact, and more valuable (150k street value of a kilo of cocaine) than an AR-15. The kilo of cocaine is sold to multiple end users, making the product fairly affordable for the end user. In contrast, the AR-15 would go to just one user, making it a high dollar purchase, which would of necessity be too expensive for most end users.

You mention the price of black market guns now as being fairly affordable. But the hypo we're supposed to be dealing with is their cost if guns we're all illegal. It would be substantially higher than it is now, pricing out most gangbangers.
Click to expand...
WTF are you talking about right here?
 
#272
#272
Rasputin_Vol said:
WTF are you talking about right here?
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The hypo we were considering is what would happen if all guns were made illegal. I was arguing there are relevant differences between guns and cocaine that would make it unlikely we would see a comparable black market in guns.
 
#273
#273
evillawyer said:
The hypo we were considering is what would happen if all guns were made illegal. I was arguing there are relevant differences between guns and cocaine that would make it unlikely we would see a comparable black market in guns.
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I’m sure no one envisioned subs filled with cocaine in 1914 but here we are. You grossly underestimate the resolve of people to make a dollar.
 
#274
#274
evillawyer said:
The hypo we were considering is what would happen if all guns were made illegal. I was arguing there are relevant differences between guns and cocaine that would make it unlikely we would see a comparable black market in guns.
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You think someone dealing kilos is going to be worried about a $10,000 gun price because they're banned? Lol
 
#275
#275
DancingOutlaw said:
I’m sure no one envisioned subs filled with cocaine in 1914 but here we are. You grossly underestimate the resolve of people to make a dollar.
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I don't question the resolve of people to make a dollar. However, if guns were forbidden, the black market price would be exceptionally high (driving out small time bad guys from the market) and make those who do have the funds to acquire them more hesitant to use them (it would be a crime to possess them and by shooting one a person would give himself away as possessing one).
 
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