China Thread

[TVOLS]

2023 Military Strength Ranking (globalfirepower.com)

All this talk of China last several years military buildup I would have thought by now the US would be ranked below China. Global firepower ranks Russia still ahead of China.

 

[AM64]

China Is Drilling a 10,000-Meter-Deep Hole Into Earth’s Crust

Maybe they'll release the Kraken (or hopefully worse) on themselves.

 

[AM64]

2023 Military Strength Ranking (globalfirepower.com)

All this talk of China last several years military buildup I would have thought by now the US would be ranked below China. Global firepower ranks Russia still ahead of China.

That looks a lot like preseason college football rankings ... especially with the "Power Index". You'd suppose NATO could be considered the first super conference - with all OOC "games" of course.

 

[Orangeburst]

2023 Military Strength Ranking (globalfirepower.com)

All this talk of China last several years military buildup I would have thought by now the US would be ranked below China. Global firepower ranks Russia still ahead of China.

That is pretty cool. Tons of metrics.

 

[Orangeburst]

 

[85SugarVol]

That looks a lot like preseason college football rankings ... especially with the "Power Index". You'd suppose NATO could be considered the first super conference - with all OOC "games" of course.

I enjoy a good ranking as much as anyone. It’s all just opinion.
But the United States is just 2/10,000ths better than Russia?

.0712 vs .0714

I don’t know, Jan.

 

[85SugarVol]

Maybe they'll release the Kraken (or hopefully worse) on themselves.

They’re digging a hole all the way to Kansas.

 

[AM64]

They’re digging a hole all the way to Kansas.

They might not like what they find there. Just kidding. My dad is originally from KS - I spent parts of several summers there.

 

[Orangeburst]

They might not like what they find there. Just kidding. My dad is originally from KS - I spent parts of several summers there.

How ya doing on your mileage with 100% gas?

 

[85SugarVol]

That is pretty cool. Tons of metrics.

Ummm… the data on the MiG is inaccurate

 

[Orangeburst]

Ummm… the data on the MiG is inaccurate

You have to deep dive on the links. What is inaccurate?

 

[85SugarVol]

You have to deep dive on the links. What is inaccurate?

It says we have 68 subs

 

[Orangeburst]

It says we have 68 subs

We don't? SSN, SSGN, and SSBN?

 

[Orangeburst]

It says we have 68 subs

Don't get me wrong..a lot of it or most of it is garbage. Like numbers are everything like Russian ancient tanks and artillery.
More generalized item like food production, energy and stuff for comparison are real measurables

 

[85SugarVol]

We don't? SSN, SSGN, and SSBN?

More than 68

Ohio Boomers
Ohio Cruise
Los Angeles
Sea Wolfs
Virginia

They missed big on that one. It’s a pretty important category for assessing naval strength

 

[85SugarVol]

Don't get me wrong..a lot of it or most of it is garbage. Like numbers are everything like Russian ancient tanks and artillery.
More generalized item like food production, energy and stuff for comparison are real measurables

Yea they count all the surface combatants equally in the Naval Fleet Strength breakdown.

A Chinese coastal patrol boat counts the same as a US San Antonio. The Chinese have 150 patrol boats in their total.

 

[85SugarVol]

More than 68

Ohio Boomers
Ohio Cruise
Los Angeles
Sea Wolfs
Virginia

They missed big on that one. It’s a pretty important category for assessing naval strength

They aren’t that far off after a second look @Orangeburst

 

[Orangeburst]

It says we have 68 subs

Looks accurate. 50 attack, 14 ballistic and 4 cruise

NAVSEA: Navy ‘Struggling’ to Get Attack Subs Out of Repairs on Time as Demand Increases - USNI News

Just saw your previous post. We really let our numbers drop. need a couple dozen more SSN

 

[85SugarVol]

Looks accurate. 50 attack, 14 ballistic and 4 cruise

NAVSEA: Navy ‘Struggling’ to Get Attack Subs Out of Repairs on Time as Demand Increases - USNI News

Just saw your previous post. We really let our numbers drop. need a couple dozen more SSN

Yea I’m dumb. I got to 76 somehow.

 

[85SugarVol]

Just saw your previous post. We really let our numbers drop. need a couple dozen more SSN

As a proud American that bleeds Navy blue, I’ll probably be labeled a heretic here….

But I’m going to keep preaching the “high end - low end” strategy. Especially with regards to countering China in the Pacific.

We need to get into Diesel-Electrics. And we don’t need to spend $B’s researching and developing our own.

The Japanese Taigei class is bad ass. A silent killer that can lay in wait submerged for 3 weeks at a time on lithium-ion’s.
6 torpedo tubes, and it can fire the Harpoon Block II. All the sensors, and it’s fast too.

The Virginia Block V is pushing $4B.
The Taigei is about $700M per boat.

Reduce the Virginia class from 66 to 63, and field an 18 boat Taigei class (we can call them the “Orca” class?). Send them all to the Eastern Pacific.

It would enhance cooperation with Japan.
It would provide an asymmetric threat to China.
And it would put boats in greater numbers in the water.

 

[hog88]

As a proud American that bleeds Navy blue, I’ll probably be labeled a heretic here….

But I’m going to keep preaching the “high end - low end” strategy. Especially with regards to countering China in the Pacific.

We need to get into Diesel-Electrics. And we don’t need to spend $B’s researching and developing our own.

The Japanese Taigei class is bad ass. A silent killer that can lay in wait submerged for 3 weeks at a time on lithium-ion’s.
6 torpedo tubes, and it can fire the Harpoon Block II. All the sensors, and it’s fast too.

The Virginia Block V is pushing $4B.
The Taigei is about $700M per boat.

Reduce the Virginia class from 66 to 63, and field an 18 boat Taigei class (we can call them the “Orca” class?). Send them all to the Eastern Pacific.

It would enhance cooperation with Japan.
It would provide an asymmetric threat to China.
And it would put boats in greater numbers in the water.

I saw a show not to long ago on (I think) the Norwegian diesel/electric subs, they could stay submerged for weeks at a time and are supposedly quiter than our boats.

 

[85SugarVol]

I saw a show not to long ago on (I think) the Norwegian diesel/electric subs, they could stay submerged for weeks at a time and are supposedly quiter than our boats.

If it was actually Norway it was probably a German Type 212 derivative.
It might have been Sweden though. Their Gotland class and derivatives are famous.

Both can stay down for about 3 weeks as well on their AIP technology, and the batteries just keep getting better. Hydrogen fuel cell and Lithium-Ion (like the Japanese).

They are silent on battery power - perfect for laying in wait, ready to attack another boat.

Full disclaimer (before GreyWolf comes in breathing fire): They can’t do what our boats do. They are different. They have different mission capabilities. They aren’t necessarily “better”.

Just different, hence the asymmetric threat. And a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

[hog88]

If it was actually Norway it was probably a German Type 212 derivative.
It might have been Sweden though. Their Gotland class and derivatives are famous.

Both can stay down for about 3 weeks as well on their AIP technology, and the batteries just keep getting better. Hydrogen fuel cell and Lithium-Ion (like the Japanese).

They are silent on battery power - perfect for laying in wait, ready to attack another boat.

Full disclaimer (before GreyWolf comes in breathing fire): They can’t do what our boats do. They are different. They have different mission capabilities. They aren’t necessarily “better”.

Just different, hence the asymmetric threat. And a hell of a lot cheaper.

We just need the right tool for the right job. IMO we spend entirely too much money on weapons systems that are too versatile.

 

[85SugarVol]

We just need the right tool for the right job. IMO we spend entirely too much money on weapons systems that are too versatile.

It’s a sick obsession we have. This fascination with “do everything” platforms that cost a fortune.

We do it with planes…
We do it with ships…
We do it with subs…

 

[Orangeburst]

As a proud American that bleeds Navy blue, I’ll probably be labeled a heretic here….

But I’m going to keep preaching the “high end - low end” strategy. Especially with regards to countering China in the Pacific.

We need to get into Diesel-Electrics. And we don’t need to spend $B’s researching and developing our own.

The Japanese Taigei class is bad ass. A silent killer that can lay in wait submerged for 3 weeks at a time on lithium-ion’s.
6 torpedo tubes, and it can fire the Harpoon Block II. All the sensors, and it’s fast too.

The Virginia Block V is pushing $4B.
The Taigei is about $700M per boat.

Reduce the Virginia class from 66 to 63, and field an 18 boat Taigei class (we can call them the “Orca” class?). Send them all to the Eastern Pacific.

It would enhance cooperation with Japan.
It would provide an asymmetric threat to China.
And it would put boats in greater numbers in the water.

Too late..Orca is already taken

U.S. doubles down on extra-large drone subs to counter China