China Thread

Thanks for sharing. Good to know and welcome back home.

I had a Russian student out here this semester (man in his mid-40s, who immigrated to the US from Moscow, during the mid-1990s), who told me basically the same thing about Russian society. It was really interesting to talk to him, because he could provide a unique perspective on both Russia and America. One of the things he was always adamant about in class discussion and in private was how Americans are really spoiled, which he meant as both a compliment and a valid criticism. His point was that we whine and moan here constantly about everything and think that we have it really bad because a few police rough up a guy or because the government has this or that scandal, when, in reality, are society is one of the most open and transparent on the globe. In Russia, he said, your relations with the authorities, particularly local ones and the police, are almost always managed by under the table cash exchanges and, if you didn't have the cash, then you were **** out of luck. This applied to the USSR (which he thought was actually better than the RF), but mostly to the Russian Federation. While I imagine things have gotten a bit better since then, at least on the corruption end, it's still completely entrenched. It may never go away, as you say with China.

It really made me even more thankful to be an American, despite how dysfunctional we often are.

I liked the under the table method, they don't consider it being corrupt, just the way business is done. Since very few people pay taxes its their way of collecting their salary. No different than the system we use here, just more hands to pay in general, to make things look non-corrupt. Our system is completely dysfunctional. At least in China you get what you pay for.
 
I liked the under the table method, they don't consider it being corrupt, just the way business is done. Since very few people pay taxes its their way of collecting their salary. No different than the system we use here, just more hands to pay in general, to make things look non-corrupt. Our system is completely dysfunctional. At least in China you get what you pay for.

Oh, I'm sure it works magnificently as long as you have the money to pay.
 
Oh, I'm sure it works magnificently as long as you have the money to pay.

Same can be said about the current US system.

The main difference is you can redistribute your profits to your best advantage rather then have the government redistribute them as they see fit.
 
I'm not sure which is worse, China kidnapping banksters without due process or the US letting banksters launder drug money, engage in counterfeiting and interest rate rigging, or just outright fraud and they pay a small fine and walk..

We Disappeared Some Folks: Details Emerge In China's Sweeping Probe Of Stock Market Rescue

More of the same...

Chinese mine owner kills himself as 17 miners remain trapped

Ma Congbo, the chairman of Yurong company which owns the mine, drowned himself by jumping into a mine well early on Sunday, China's Xinhua news agency reports.

His motive is not clear but the Chinese authorities have toughened the punishment of employers who are negligent, says the BBC's Stephen Evans in Beijing.
 
Is our market plummeting today because of China?

Every time I think China is about to fall off the edge, it seems like things stabilize and make me start questioning my assumptions again.

It's hard to believe that they want eventually fall big-time though. I'm under the impression that the CCP has been completely cooking the books over the years and that China may actually be in much more debt (gross as well as percentage) than the US. I don't know how accurate those assumptions are though; given the nature of the CCP, I'm not sure anyone does. Kind of like no one really knows for certain how many nukes they have; just make an educated guess.
 
Well, you're an expert in scapegoating, so you should know it when you see it. We'll take your word for it on this matter.
 
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Is our market plummeting today because of China?

Every time I think China is about to fall off the edge, it seems like things stabilize and make me start questioning my assumptions again.

Have things stabilized?
 
Have things stabilized?

Perhaps that wasn't the best way to describe it, because stability would mean that fears would have been assuaged by now, and those fears haven't died down in some years now.

What I meant though is that every time it seems like this is about to come to a boiling point and the contents of the pot all spillover, it seems to gain a temporary removal from the stove. It keeps repeating the process, going back on and off the stove, but it never quite boils over.

Makes one wonder if, in the event that Chinese markets do finally fail, the crisis will be much more severe than it would have been had the CCP just went ahead and came clean instead of constantly trying to pump up the same practices and markets that got them there.
 
Perhaps that wasn't the best way to describe it, because stability would mean that fears would have been assuaged by now, and those fears haven't died down in some years now.

What I meant though is that every time it seems like this is about to come to a boiling point and the contents of the pot all spillover, it seems to gain a temporary removal from the stove. It keeps repeating the process, going back on and off the stove, but it never quite boils over.

Makes one wonder if, in the event that Chinese markets do finally fail, the crisis will be much more severe than it would have been had the CCP just went ahead and came clean instead of constantly trying to pump up the same practices and markets that got them there.

Sounds eerily similar to our crash.
 
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Sounds eerily similar to our crash.

I think some of you watch Fareed Zakaria, so you may have seen the segment this past Sunday, but he had on a panel to make bold predictions for 2016. I think it was Ian Bremmer who said that, in the past century, recessions and economic downturns have occurred in the US/West and now globally at an average of once every 7 or 8 years. Obviously, we're now at that point again, since the last recession. However, he said he didn't think we would see a downturn just yet and that downturns would become increasingly rarer as we witness governments around the globe doing more and more like the US govt. before '07-'08. In other words, increased government intervention into economies and markets (like US '07-'08 and China now) will stall downturns, but, when the bottom does finally fall out, recessions will be far more worse on average than in the past, because markets aren't being allowed to operate the way they did in the past to cleanse themselves as efficiently.

He didn't say specifically, but I took it to mean that we may be in a world now where we see a recession only once ever 10-15 years, but when these do happen, we're going to suffer far more and recoveries will take much longer and be far more intensive. The Chinese situation was particularly troubling to him though, because of how much control its government has to manipulate markets and data - much more than the US during '07-'08. He thinks China possesses the capacity to be particularly nasty if the bottom those fall out, which it most likely will.
 
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I would tend to agree. the more they cook the numbers, and the more they spread out the worse it gets.
 

I think China has been reading our Politics Forum a lot lately, because its capacity for rational thinking has apparently absconded.

The situation in the SCS goes basically something like this every month:

1. China will build or occupy another island that either didn't exist before or is not within its territorial waters.

2. Its neighbors will rightfully get pissed off, asking for US aid.

3. China will then move military assets into the region, especially around its fake islands and around those islands it occupies, which don't belong to it.

4. The US will then react accordingly, in the aim of countering China's unwarranted and unprovoked aggressive moves.

5. China will then protest internationally that the US is acting aggressively and is militarizing the SCS.

At the end of this cycle, just repeat.
 
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right now the only one listening to China's complaints are China. Its a show for their home front. "Remember all that land that we never had before? Well the Imperialist Western Dogs are threatening all that sacred historic Chinese land that we just built from the water. We are building these great islands to maintain open trade lanes by keeping out the Imperialists and all their lackeys that have actual claims to these waters."

also the typical Putin play going on. Do something. let the world freak out for months and months and then calm down, then escalate it, wait out the next freak out, escalate again. the whole time saying you aren't going to escalate.
 
right now the only one listening to China's complaints are China. Its a show for their home front. "Remember all that land that we never had before? Well the Imperialist Western Dogs are threatening all that sacred historic Chinese land that we just built from the water. We are building these great islands to maintain open trade lanes by keeping out the Imperialists and all their lackeys that have actual claims to these waters."

also the typical Putin play going on. Do something. let the world freak out for months and months and then calm down, then escalate it, wait out the next freak out, escalate again. the whole time saying you aren't going to escalate.

At the end of the day, after all the rant and the rabble over US overstepping (and it indeed has), remember that China and Russia are the only countries whose national boundaries have expanded in the past decade.

How far will those borders go?
 
Argentine naval security forces sunk a Chinese ship they claim was illegally fishing in Argentina's exclusive economic zone.

Put your jock strap on, Argentina. You're about to become Target Number 1 for Chinese state media.
 
Argentine naval security forces sunk a Chinese ship they claim was illegally fishing in Argentina's exclusive economic zone.

Put your jock strap on, Argentina. You're about to become Target Number 1 for Chinese state media.

China is just going to get nastier until they get their butts handed to them.
 
Argentine naval security forces sunk a Chinese ship they claim was illegally fishing in Argentina's exclusive economic zone.

Put your jock strap on, Argentina. You're about to become Target Number 1 for Chinese state media.

don't you know thats just part of ancient Chinese waters that they haven't claimed in more than 1,000 years? they did explore some of the western coast of the Americas way back.
 

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