Chinese spy balloon hovering over Montana

[volfanhill]

No one is "blaming" Trump. Not even me. And in fact I'm not even critical for his administration for lack of response when he was in office. As I said, it sounds like those incursions were very brief, this one much more significant.

I think it is relevant only to show that this is not, entirely, a one off, so not necessarily something to cause a major alarm in the military or intelligence circles, which have seen it before. This explains why there was not the same level of intensity in those circles as in the public generally when it learned of it.

My guess is that there is a whole lot of Sh%t that goes on fairly routinely that we never hear of but would cause a lot of angst for the public if it became generally known.

It's now being reported that we didn't know about the prior incursions until after trump left office. Doesn't that open up a shat ton more questions and, if true, a far bigger concern?

 

[OrangeBoro]

Just seems like everything circles back to blaming Trump.

Everything is but but but Trump with them, the alternative is they have to hold mush brains accountable and that's not going to happen.

 

[DaddyChad]

No one is "blaming" Trump. Not even me. And in fact I'm not even critical for his administration for lack of response when he was in office. As I said, it sounds like those incursions were very brief, this one much more significant.

I think it is relevant only to show that this is not, entirely, a one off, so not necessarily something to cause a major alarm in the military or intelligence circles, which have seen it before. This explains why there was not the same level of intensity in those circles as in the public generally when it learned of it.

My guess is that there is a whole lot of Sh%t that goes on fairly routinely that we never hear of but would cause a lot of angst for the public if it became generally known.

Actually this Biden “official” is absolutely trying to shift the blame to Trump or at least lessen the outrage. It’s why they pointed out it happened during Trump’s time in office. They have to say he didn’t know it occurred bc there’s no rational human being who would believe trump could know about it and not shoot it down.

This isn’t about politics though either imo. Firmly believe Obama would’ve shot the thing down as well before it made a journey across the entire United States. Democrat or Republican I firmly believe we can do better than the current President.

 

[lawgator1]

It's now being reported that we didn't know about the prior incursions until after trump left office. Doesn't that open up a shat ton more questions and, if true, a far bigger concern?

Questions, sure, but there may be a lot of reasons we don't simply shoot one down that encroaches 50 yards into our airpsace. One that goes 1000 miles in is different. I'm just saying the institution of government may have assumed that this was going to be the same as previous and, if to be faulted, should be for not having planned out what to do if that ever happened.

Now, if in fact there have been such surveillance balloons make similar levels of incursion in the past that would be meaningful, of course, but it would not necessarily surprise me that the public was not tipped off.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Still doesn't make sense unless the IC did not tell the President. That would be even worse.

Normally, I'd agree with you on this. However, given Trump's unpredictable and questionable mental competency, I can see them withholding information. Trump said wind turbines cause cancer, he showed he would rather believe Putin and the Russian intelligence community than our own CIA and FBI, suggested ingesting bleach to fight COVID, and other wild, false, and crazy statements. They probably feared he'd order a nuclear strike on China due to a balloon over-flight. As a matter-of-fact, Joint Chiefs Chair Mark Milley and China both feared Trump would do just that, simply because he lost the election. Even our allies opted to withhold intelligence from Trump, as they didn't trust him to not hand it over to the Russians. Simply put, he was too much of a wild card. So I have no doubt, not just the balloons, but other stuff was necessarily kept from Trump as well.

 

[volfanhill]

Questions, sure, but there may be a lot of reasons we don't simply shoot one down that encroaches 50 yards into our airpsace. One that goes 1000 miles in is different. I'm just saying the institution of government may have assumed that this was going to be the same as previous and, if to be faulted, should be for not having planned out what to do if that ever happened.

Now, if in fact there have been such surveillance balloons make similar levels of incursion in the past that would be meaningful, of course, but it would not necessarily surprise me that the public was not tipped off.

You aren't paying attention. We are learning well after the fact that these incursions happened. We are told they happened when trump was in office. But we didn't realize until after Trump left office. Trumps admin didn't know they happened. The concern is that this would be a massive failing of our defense and intelligence community.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Just seems like everything circles back to blaming Trump.

There has never been a President who didn't blame his predecessor for the biggest problems facing his administration.

Barack Obama blamed the economy on GWB for most of his two terms ...

.... and Donald Trump blamed a lack of COVID tests on Obama - even though the COVID pandemic did not emerge until January of 2020, which was a full 3 years into Trump's presidency.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/13/cor...-responsibility-at-all-for-lack-of-tests.html

 

[OrangeTsar]

What altitude do low orbit satellites traverse at? 250k feet?
How many layers of atmosphere are those satellites peering through?
Can you get better imaging 30 miles closer to an object on the ground?

250k feet is well within the atmosphere. Once an orbiting body reaches 400k feet or so, it is generally considered to be beginning reentry. Atmospheric drag makes orbit below that point impossible

 

[OrangeTsar]

There has never been a President who didn't blame his predecessor for the biggest problems facing his administration.

Barack Obama blamed the economy on GWB for most of his two terms ...

.... and Donald Trump blamed a lack of COVID tests on Obama - even though the COVID pandemic did not emerge until January of 2020, which was a full 3 years into Trump's presidency.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/13/cor...-responsibility-at-all-for-lack-of-tests.html

Hey, George Washington didn’t bucko

 

[Orangeburst]

Normally, I'd agree with you on this. However, given Trump's unpredictable and questionable mental competency, I can see them withholding information. Trump said wind turbines cause cancer, he showed he would rather believe Putin and the Russian intelligence community than our own CIA and FBI, suggested ingesting bleach to fight COVID, and other wild, false, and crazy statements. They probably feared he'd order a nuclear strike on China due to a balloon over-flight. As a matter-of-fact, Joint Chiefs Chair Mark Milley and China both feared Trump would do just that, simply because he lost the election. Even our allies opted to withhold intelligence from Trump, as they didn't trust him to not hand it over to the Russians. Simply put, he was too much of a wild card. So I have no doubt, not just the balloons, but other stuff was necessarily kept from Trump as well.

This is not the way it should EVER work. There is a legal process to remove a President.

51 of our own IC members lied about Hunters laptop and blamed it on Putin.

 

[OrangeTsar]

If you want to actually do something that will make a difference (and I am speaking with o myself here too), the next time you are in Walmart or Target and are considering a purchase, see if it says “made in China”. If it does, put it back. And for Heaven’s sake, don’t even set foot in Harbor Freight .
The worst thing about this balloon when you really think about it, it was financed by you and me. We are funding our own destruction

 

[OrangeBoro]

Normally, I'd agree with you on this. However, given Trump's unpredictable and questionable mental competency, I can see them withholding information. Trump said wind turbines cause cancer, he showed he would rather believe Putin and the Russian intelligence community than our own CIA and FBI, suggested ingesting bleach to fight COVID, and other wild, false, and crazy statements. They probably feared he'd order a nuclear strike on China due to a balloon over-flight. As a matter-of-fact, Joint Chiefs Chair Mark Milley and China both feared Trump would do just that, simply because he lost the election. Even our allies opted to withhold intelligence from Trump, as they didn't trust him to not hand it over to the Russians. Simply put, he was too much of a wild card. So I have no doubt, not just the balloons, but other stuff was necessarily kept from Trump as well.

This from the biden fan boy

 

[OrangeTsar]

The more I think about it, the more sympathy I have for Joe. I can imagine how excited he got when he heard a balloon had been seen but then how quickly it turned to disappointment when he heard there was no ice cream coming. Same thing happened to me when I was four or five

 

[WoodsmanVol]

This is not the way it should EVER work. There is a legal process to remove a President.
51 of our own IC members lied about Hunters laptop and blamed it on Putin.

That was seriously considered, even by some of Trump's own staff. BUT, his Republiar Congressional enablers hindered the process. Don't detour yet again with that whataboutism stuff. The discourse is about--IF China balloons did flyover the USA with the Pentagon's knowledge, why wasn't Trump and his staff briefed. That's what this is about, not Hunter Biden, who I don't like JFYI. Detours are what I often see, to lead a topic off course by you alternate fact-ers.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

If you want to actually do something that will make a difference (and I am speaking with o myself here too), the next time you are in Walmart or Target and are considering a purchase, see if it says “made in China”. If it does, put it back. And for Heaven’s sake, don’t even set foot in Harbor Freight .
The worst thing about this balloon when you really think about it, it was financed by you and me. We are funding our own destruction

I agree. That's exactly what I do. I don't trust stuff from China, whether TikTok or anything else. Here's a thunk for you. Wife and I were in Sam's Club. We like fish, or nearly any kind. Package after package of frozen fish were marked as from China. I showed this to what seemed to be another fish lover. By her dress, I'd say she was very well-to-do. She looked at me like I was a fool, shrugged, took two packages of the same I'd shown her, and walked off with a sneer. I put mine back, but find Alaska caught wild (not farm-raised) salmon on the shelf.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

This from the biden fan boy

Well, OK. Since you insist. Enjoy!!!!!!

 

[Orangeburst]

.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Actually this Biden “official” is absolutely trying to shift the blame to Trump or at least lessen the outrage. It’s why they pointed out it happened during Trump’s time in office. They have to say he didn’t know it occurred bc there’s no rational human being who would believe trump could know about it and not shoot it down.

This isn’t about politics though either imo. Firmly believe Obama would’ve shot the thing down as well before it made a journey across the entire United States. Democrat or Republican I firmly believe we can do better than the current President.

There are meerkat packs that have done better than the current President.

 

[lawgator1]

You aren't paying attention. We are learning well after the fact that these incursions happened. We are told they happened when trump was in office. But we didn't realize until after Trump left office. Trumps admin didn't know they happened. The concern is that this would be a massive failing of our defense and intelligence community.

No, no, I get it. I'm saying that, let's assume there have been a dozen of these over the years, over several administrations, would it be unusual that they would start being treated as not noteworthy if they were very minor in those prior instances?

And I get the argument that none is minor, but I doubt the President or his primary advisors are alerted every time anything at all occurs in that world. They have to exercise some discretion as to what to pass on so as not to overload him with minor things and miss the big picture. See e.g. terrorists might use planes to hit buildings getting lost in the noise.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

First off, NONE of the wires have picked this up yet. It sounds like a conspiracy from truther spread by a russian influencer at faux news.

Second, I would not have given frumpy the time of day. He would have figured out a way to destroy the world with it. His entire administration were russian spies. I would have resigned.

Third: EVERYONE IS RIGHT, AND EVERYONE IS WRONG IN THIS ARGUMENT.

There were three balloons, none of them over USA mainland was my understanding. One over Hawaii, One over the Carrabean, One over Guam is my understanding. LMAO.

Bunch chickens pecking each other into a frenzy with no points on their beaks.

 

[hog88]

No, no, I get it. I'm saying that, let's assume there have been a dozen of these over the years, over several administrations, would it be unusual that they would start being treated as not noteworthy if they were very minor in those prior instances?

And I get the argument that none is minor, but I doubt the President or his primary advisors are alerted every time anything at all occurs in that world. They have to exercise some discretion as to what to pass on so as not to overload him with minor things and miss the big picture. See e.g. terrorists might use planes to hit buildings getting lost in the noise.

Are you being serious? No foreign military/surveillance incursion into our airspace is a minor event and every one should be brought to the CiCs attention. What if the 1 minor incursion just happened to be an attack?

 

[Orangeburst]

Are you being serious? No foreign military/surveillance incursion into our airspace is a minor event and every one should be brought to the CiCs attention. What if the 1 minor incursion just happened to be an attack?

Seeing defense of this is inexcusable. I think Biden is a gathering idiot, but he was and should have been told.

 

[Orangeburst]

First off, NONE of the wires have picked this up yet. It sounds like a conspiracy from truther spread by a russian influencer at faux news.

Second, I would not have given frumpy the time of day. He would have figured out a way to destroy the world with it. His entire administration were russian spies. I would have resigned.

Third: EVERYONE IS RIGHT, AND EVERYONE IS WRONG IN THIS ARGUMENT.

There were three balloons, none of them over USA mainland was my understanding. One over Hawaii, One over the Carrabean, One over Guam is my understanding. LMAO.

Bunch chickens pecking each other into a frenzy with no points on their beaks.

The MSM said Continental USA.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I agree. That's exactly what I do. I don't trust stuff from China, whether TikTok or anything else. Here's a thunk for you. Wife and I were in Sam's Club. We like fish, or nearly any kind. Package after package of frozen fish were marked as from China. I showed this to what seemed to be another fish lover. By her dress, I'd say she was very well-to-do. She looked at me like I was a fool, shrugged, took two packages of the same I'd shown her, and walked off with a sneer. I put mine back, but find Alaska caught wild (not farm-raised) salmon on the shelf.

A world in which it is cheaper to catch, process, and freeze fish in China and then ship it across the pacific then across the us by rail and semi than it is to fish off Newfoundland or the Pacific Coast is so illogical to me

 

[hog88]

Seeing defense of this is inexcusable. I think Biden is a gathering idiot, but he was and should have been told.

Hell, apparently nobody to the Sec of Def or the National Security Advisor. If that's the case I expect to see some heads role.