Chinese spy balloon hovering over Montana

#2,451
#2,451
more:

You aren’t required to notify the FAA for a FAA 101 exempt flight, but it’s good practice if there’s >50% cloud cover. You don’t want to accidentally hit a plane!

this matches the info from the AviationToday article

the note posted by ND40 was under this section of the article:

If you didn’t meet the exemption conditions, you’ll need to take some more care to ensure a safe launch.
 
#2,453
#2,453
Ok I need to correct one thing I did misread. I interpreted 101.35(3) as requiring a transponder as when I read it I inferred the listed frequencies as the response frequency of a transponder. No they appear to be specifying a radar reflector with the radar operating frequency range which the reflector must operate in.

Thus a passive device is allowed. I’d assumed as well as a couple of others that mode C would be a requirement. The regs don’t require that. Since this device wasn’t 24/7 powered I thought it clearly violated that. But that isn’t what the regs say. And I frankly find that terrifying
 
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#2,454
#2,454
hog88 said:
Wow, must have struck a nerve for you to go that low.
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Dude. You played the other two on me. Those two add up.

Look at my last post. From what I’d read thus far I was sure a transponder was required. It isn’t a a passive reflector will suffice. That is both comical and terrifying at the same time to me.
 
#2,455
#2,455
NorthDallas40 said:
Hog posted a page that I’d read before and I posted the relevant paragraphs. I’m fairly certain there are still FAA/ATC coordination requirements as well as transponder requirements. Look at 101.35(3) above.

And if there is actually a void in the regs allowing these things up there after this fiasco I’ll guess we see the heavy hand of the government quickly correct that.
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The opening section is the key

§ 101.1 Applicability.

(a) This part prescribes rules governing the operation in the United States, of the following:

(1) Except as provided for in § 101.7, any balloon that is moored to the surface of the earth or an object thereon and that has a diameter of more than 6 feet or a gas capacity of more than 115 cubic feet.
(2) Except as provided for in § 101.7, any kite that weighs more than 5 pounds and is intended to be flown at the end of a rope or cable.
(3) Any amateur rocket except aerial firework displays.
(4) Except as provided for in § 101.7, any unmanned free balloon that -

(i) Carries a payload package that weighs more than four pounds and has a weight/size ratio of more than three ounces per square inch on any surface of the package, determined by dividing the total weight in ounces of the payload package by the area in square inches of its smallest surface;
(ii) Carries a payload package that weighs more than six pounds;
(iii) Carries a payload, of two or more packages, that weighs more than 12 pounds; or
(iv) Uses a rope or other device for suspension of the payload that requires an impact force of more than 50 pounds to separate the suspended payload from the balloon.

(b) For the purposes of this part, a gyroglider attached to a vehicle on the surface of the earth is considered to be a kite.

any balloon below these thresholds (as are many of the hobby balloons) are in the Exemption category per these regs.
 
#2,456
#2,456
volinbham said:
The opening section is the key

§ 101.1 Applicability.

(a) This part prescribes rules governing the operation in the United States, of the following:

(1) Except as provided for in § 101.7, any balloon that is moored to the surface of the earth or an object thereon and that has a diameter of more than 6 feet or a gas capacity of more than 115 cubic feet.
(2) Except as provided for in § 101.7, any kite that weighs more than 5 pounds and is intended to be flown at the end of a rope or cable.
(3) Any amateur rocket except aerial firework displays.
(4) Except as provided for in § 101.7, any unmanned free balloon that -

(i) Carries a payload package that weighs more than four pounds and has a weight/size ratio of more than three ounces per square inch on any surface of the package, determined by dividing the total weight in ounces of the payload package by the area in square inches of its smallest surface;
(ii) Carries a payload package that weighs more than six pounds;
(iii) Carries a payload, of two or more packages, that weighs more than 12 pounds; or
(iv) Uses a rope or other device for suspension of the payload that requires an impact force of more than 50 pounds to separate the suspended payload from the balloon.

(b) For the purposes of this part, a gyroglider attached to a vehicle on the surface of the earth is considered to be a kite.

any balloon below these thresholds (as are many of the hobby balloons) are in the Exemption category per these regs.
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Go read my last couple of posts. I had convinced myself from reading thus far an altitude reporting transponder is required. It isn’t a passive reflector that meets the ATC radar frequency ranges will suffice. And I’m completely blown away by that epiphany
 
#2,457
#2,457
NorthDallas40 said:
Ok I need to correct one thing I did misread. I interpreted 101.35(3) as requiring a transponder as when I read it I inferred the listed frequencies as the response frequency of a transponder. No they appear to be specifying a radar reflector with the radar operating frequency range which the reflector must operate in.

Thus a passive device is allowed. I’d assumed as well as a couple of others that mode C would be a requirement. The regs don’t require that. Since this device wasn’t 24/7 powered I thought it clearly violated that. But that isn’t what the regs say. And I frankly find that terrifying
Click to expand...

always right.gif
 
#2,461
#2,461
NorthDallas40 said:
Go read my last couple of posts. I had convinced myself from reading thus far an altitude reporting transponder is required. It isn’t a passive reflector that meets the ATC radar frequency ranges will suffice. And I’m completely blown away by that epiphany
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure this is correct. The .35 section you are referring to is for balloons falling under the regs. The opening section of the regs outlines what type of balloons the regs apply to and there are hobbyist balloons that don't cross the threshold to fall under the regs.

That said, from other readings it appears the hobby groups include some type of transmitter that can be picked up by shortwave so people connected to the group can track it's progress around the world.
 
#2,462
#2,462
volinbham said:
I'm not even sure this is correct. The .35 section you are referring to is for balloons falling under the regs. The opening section of the regs outlines what type of balloons the regs apply to and there are hobbyist balloons that don't cross the threshold to fall under the regs.

That said, from other readings it appears the hobby groups include some type of transmitter that can be picked up by shortwave so people connected to the group can track it's progress around the world.
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Yeah I read the ham radio monitoring too. However those hobbyists aren’t managing all the airliner traffic operating in that airspace which I’m pretty sure is what drives all the regs.

I’ll guess that the wonder we call the internet has provided the plebes with enough information to tread into the thin air nobody figured they could ever get to and the heavy hand of the government is about to act on that. And in this case I’m not sure that’s a bad thing. One of your linked articles referenced this only becoming a thing in the last decade or so. A decade is the blink of an eye for the slug we call the federal government
 
#2,463
#2,463
NorthDallas40 said:
Yeah I read the ham radio monitoring too. However those hobbyists aren’t managing all the airliner traffic operating in that airspace which I’m pretty sure is what drives all the regs.

I’ll guess that the wonder we call the internet has provided the plebes with enough information to tread into the thin air nobody figured they could ever get to and the heavy hand of the government is about to act on that. And in this case I’m not sure that’s a bad thing. One of your linked articles referenced this only becoming a thing in the last decade or so. A decade is the blink of an eye for the slug we call the federal government
Click to expand...

So you are ok with big government heavy handiness?
 
#2,466
#2,466
volinbham said:
one thing we know for sure - regs are about to change and these hobbyists are about to feel the iron grip of the government
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I’ll agree to that one for sure. And I’ll bet the member service lines at the ALPA are blowing up hourly if you’ve interpreted this right, and I think you largely have, and the pilots have digested that information
 
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#2,467
#2,467
reading the story - the hobby balloon theory has some compelling evidence going for it. size of balloon, location at the time, lost contact.

also suggests why they won't recover it because it was about 2 - 3 foot big not inflated and the payload weighed 11 grams.
 
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#2,468
#2,468
NorthDallas40 said:
I’ll agree to that one for sure. And I’ll bet the member service lines at the ALPA are blowing up hourly if you’ve interpreted this right, and I think you largely have, and the pilots have digested that information
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I presume the regs were written as they were after an assessment of minimal danger. The exemptions center around weight of solid mass (payload) and tethering items (things that could connect the balloon to an aircraft). Given the nature of balloons themselves and how airflow affects them it seems highly unlikely they could be an intake threat and they certainly wouldn't be an impact threat. See they type of balloon pictured.

group-picture-2.jpg
 
#2,469
#2,469
volinbham said:
reading the story - the hobby balloon theory has some compelling evidence going for it. size of balloon, location at the time, lost contact.

also suggests why they won't recover it because it was about 2 - 3 foot big not inflated and the payload weighed 11 grams.
Click to expand...
So the timeline will likely be:

A) CCP flies a spy balloon with impunity over the whole continental US.

B) The government looks like morons for waiting so long to shoot it down.

C) In their zeal to not look like morons again (a wasted effort for sure…) they over react and shoot down multiple objects owned by civilians which likely were operating legally.

D) the corrective action will likely be to come down hard on hobbyists and run up the victory flag to try and deflect from their stupidity over the CCP balloon.

Your federal government in action.
 
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#2,470
#2,470
volinbham said:
I presume the regs were written as they were after an assessment of minimal danger. The exemptions center around weight of solid mass (payload) and tethering items (things that could connect the balloon to an aircraft). Given the nature of balloons themselves and how airflow affects them it seems highly unlikely they could be an intake threat and they certainly wouldn't be an impact threat. See they type of balloon pictured.

group-picture-2.jpg
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Oh I’d guess the gas bag isn’t an issue. I’m pretty sure the compressors are designed for some nominal bird intake for example. Not a flock of birds like what Sullenburger encountered of course. I’d be more worried about that 4 or 6 lb payload limit whichever applies.
 
#2,471
#2,471
NorthDallas40 said:
So the timeline will likely be:

A) CCP flies a spy balloon with impunity over the whole continental US.

B) The government looks like morons for waiting so long to shoot it down.

C) In their zeal to not look like morons again (a wasted effort for sure…) they over react and shoot down multiple objects owned by civilians which likely were operating legally.

D) the corrective action will likely be to come down hard on hobbyists and run up the victory flag to try and deflect from their stupidity over the CCP balloon.

Your federal government in action.
Click to expand...
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