Coach Cal and UK

#51
#51
You don't have a long history of being one of the NCAA's most corrupt programs because you're easy to please either. Your god who won your first four titles won at all costs. Take some time to read up on the 1950s investigation. If you look hard enough, you'll find that your heroes did more than shave points, as if that wasn't bad enough.



Shaving points? You wanna go there..That was a players issue not a coaching issue. UK didnt participate the following year in any tourney.

We didnt lose a game in that season (Undefeated) and easily gave a way a national title for those players illicit participation 50 years ago.

You dont hear about Roy Williams paying players while at Kansas while he is at UNC. He had Kansas on probation but is considered Squeaky clean

UNC is the "Chosen" sacred cow...UK is the target. We understand that.

Our own local newspaper in Lexington does their best to investigate UK at every turn and has since the 80s. We have to tippietoe at every juncture. We understand that. If UT had a local rag out to get them I doubt if they would be in existance.

Instead we still have our passion. Not even Tubby Smith could take it away. Fire away...Bring up crap like that and put a halo over your heads if it makes you feel better.



Pretty sad you wanna bring that up but I understand you need to try and bring down our mojo somehow. Why not ride out on the court on Uni-cycles...This time put a monkey on the players head at the same time. Certainly it would be better than looking at a shirtless Bruce Pearl spewing sweat out like a firehose....
 
#52
#52
I'm guessing you're one of the rats from that fanbase who only show up here when you have something to thump your chest over. You're always one loss away from crawling back into the rathole that you've been hiding in.
 
#53
#53
Shaving points? You wanna go there..That was a players issue not a coaching issue. UK didnt participate the following year in any tourney.

I'm talking about paying recruits. That goes all the way back to your idol.

Halo over my head? UT has never been on probation in any sport.
 
#57
#57
I'm talking about paying recruits. That goes all the way back to your idol.

Halo over my head? UT has never been on probation in any sport.

One documented payer payment (Chris Mills) ONE, UK went on probation 3 years for that and Eddie Sutton resigned even though he was found innocent.

Emory package opened up by itself (Yeah right) and 1000 bucks popped out (Happened near UCLA) Chris Mills was a UCLA recruit. Yep...we paid with the biggest basketball penalty ever given. UK assistant that sent the Video-tape (Package that was said to have that money) was subsequently awarded a large cash sum after he sued.

Roy Williams "systematicly" paid players at Kansas landing kansas on Probation but the same stigma doesnt follow him or his school...... they dont hear about that very often. Like I said, sacred cow.......

IU fans used to claim they were squeaky clean...now guess who is on probation and who had to clean house....
 
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#58
#58
One documented payer payment (Chris Mills) ONE, UK went on probation 3 years for that and Eddie Sutton resigned even though he was found innocent.

Emory package opened up by itself (Yeah right) and 1000 bucks popped out (Happened near UCLA) Chris Mills was a UCLA recruit. Yep...we paid with the biggest basketball penalty ever given. UK assistant that sent the Video-tape (Package that was said to have that money) was subsequently awarded a large cash sum after he sued.

Roy Williams "systematicly" paid players at Kansas landing kansas on Probation but the same stigma doesnt follow him or his school...... they dont hear about that very often. Like I said, sacred cow.......

IU fans used to claim they were squeaky clean...now guess who is on probation and who had to clean house....

I was talking about the 1950s. Apparently, you'd rather discuss the 1980s, which is fine with me, because it's much fresher. Are you seriously trying to claim that the NCAA gave you a hard way to go? You have only begun to scratch the surface of what you were nailed for in the 1980s. You're lucky you didn't get a multi-year death penalty.

You said I was trying to put a halo over my head. Well, you're trying to claim innocence over one of the biggest NCAA basketball investigations ever.
 
#60
#60
I was talking about the 1950s. Apparently, you'd rather discuss the 1980s, which is fine with me, because it's much fresher. Are you seriously trying to claim that the NCAA gave you a hard way to go? You have only begun to scratch the surface of what you were nailed for in the 1980s. You're lucky you didn't get a multi-year death penalty.

You said I was trying to put a halo over my head. Well, you're trying to claim innocence over one of the biggest NCAA basketball investigations ever.


Biggest ever?

Sure...I mean to find out if a package REALLY opened up or not is earth shattering. BIG!!!!!

UK is in Lexington Kentucky...right next to the Lexington Herald Leader. They watch UK like a hawk and would report if a UK player or coach farted. I wonder how that would fly in Tennessee?

Honestly, what the point of all this? UT has never done anything wrong...I get it...squeaky clean, angelic........

We are Satan because of an Emory package....Somehow I am not supposed to enjoy the fact we are going to hoist a banner soon because of that envelope? I dont think so.


I mean this is better for you to talk about a package that opened up from the 80s than basketball in the 2000s I guess.
 
#61
#61
There was a lot more in that investigation than that one package being sent to that one recruit. You can find more details here:

Kentucky could have received the death penalty for - 05.29.89 - SI Vault

Cover your eyes and ears, because here comes the truth:

Of Kentucky's many sins, the two gravest were academic fraud and sending money, in effect, to a recruit. But the seriousness of the violations and the scope of Kentucky's blatant disregard of the rules do not show up so much in what the NCAA did to Kentucky as in what it didn't do, as cited in paragraph 15 of the report on infractions.
"Because of the nature of the violations," reads the report, "...the committee seriously considered whether the regular-season schedule for the men's basketball program should be curtailed in whole or in part for one or two seasons of competition. In the judgment of the committee...the violations found would justify such a penalty."

In effect Kentucky basketball has been on the lam for four years, or since the Lexington Herald-Leader won a Pulitzer Prize for a 1985 investigation that exposed widespread corruption in the program, ranging from boosters' "$100 handshakes" with Wildcat stars to free meals for players and other unseemly perks. At that time the NCAA's crack investigative force, presumably made up of Geraldo Rivera, Inspector Clouseau and Roger Rabbit, failed to develop enough evidence to prosecute—although Kentucky-was cited by the NCAA for a lack of cooperation.

Some excerpts about the late 1980s investigation:

This time the violations were brain-bogglingly loud and sorrowfully clear.
For starters, former Kentucky assistant coach Dwane Casey, Manuel and sophomore forward Chris Mills all took heavy shots from the NCAA. Casey was found to have sent $1,000 to Mills's father, Claud, in an Emery Worldwide package in March 1988.

The NCAA found that Manuel, a high-school All-America, committed academic fraud by cheating on his college entrance exam, reportedly by copying answers from the test of another student in the Lexington school where the test was administered. That strikes at the heart of a university's integrity.

What about the Wildcat fans? "They won't change," says Phelps. "They'll just be mad at the NCAA. Some of them are part of the problem. I don't think that money [in the Emery envelope] came out of Eddies [Sutton's] pocket."

Here's an ode from the same article to your idol from the 1950s:

Cheating is nothing new to the pages of Kentucky's basketball scrapbook. Adolph Rupp's 1952-53 team was nailed with what amounted to the NCAA's first death penalty—the Wildcats had to sit out the winter playing intrasquad exhibitions—because of payments to players, which came to light during an investigation into a point-shaving scandal involving several Wildcat players...Rupp swore that someday the NCAA would hand him another championship trophy, which it did after his Fiddlin' Five won the 1958 title in Louisville.

So your idol wasn't exactly playing with a fair deck when he hung those early banners. Good thing you got to play the entire 1958 NCAA Tournament, all three games of it, in your home state (1 game in Lexington and 2 in Louisville).

Moving on to the Hall and Sutton eras...

Hall's detractors say he was insecure in Rupp's shoes, and afraid of failure, and by 1976 he had other concerns as well. That year, the NCAA announced that the Wildcats' scholarships would be limited for two seasons because of recruiting violations. Still, Hall gave the fat Cat boosters among the horsemen and coal-mine operators in the commonwealth access to practices and the locker room, even at halftimes of games. That stopped in 1985, when Hall retired and Sutton, practically begging for the job—who can forget his declaration that he would "crawl to Lexington" from Arkansas to coach at the University of Kentucky?—replaced him. When Hamilton left to coach Oklahoma State in '86, the word was that Kentucky retained a toehold on big-city recruiting by replacing him with Casey, who had played for Hall between 1976 and '79.

Bad as the situation in Lexington may be, it could have been worse. Still, the call-in shows are humming with vilifications of (then-UK President) Roselle for giving in, rather than with hosannas for having saved basketball from imminent demise. In January, Roselle said privately that he was taking the biggest gamble any Kentucky president could imagine by cooperating with the NCAA. "If I fail," he said, "no future president will have a chance to do things right."
Instead, thanks to Roselle, the Wildcats have another chance to do things right. One final chance.

And then your prayers were answered with Rick Pitino. You can open your eyes and ears now.
 
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#64
#64
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=col0>Tennessee reports third violation

</TD><TD class=col1>Story Highlights
Coach Lane Kiffin mentioned an unsigned recruit in a radio interview

NCAA rules prohibit a coach from making such comments


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=cnnStoryContentTable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=cnnStoryContentArea><TABLE class=cnnInlineRight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><!--startclickprintexclude-->
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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- The University of Tennessee is reporting a third secondary recruiting violation involving new football coach Lane Kiffin.
Kiffin, in a radio interview Friday morning, mentioned recruit Bryce Brown by name and called him "a great player."
According to The Knoxville News Sentinel, NCAA rules prohibit a coach from making such comments before the prospect has signed a letter of intent.
Earlier this week, the school reported violations for a mock news conference held by nine prospects during an official visit to the university, and for using a fog machine as a recruit entered the field at Neyland Stadium.
Additionally, Kiffin was reprimanded last week by Southeastern Conference commissioner Mike Slive for falsely accusing Florida's Urban Meyer of a recruiting violation.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Tennessee reports third recruiting violation - NCAA Football - SI.com
 
#66
#66
Tennessee reports third recruiting violation - NCAA Football - SI.com[/url]


Ummm.....really?

Why don't you compare a 5 year old stealing a cookie from the jar in the kitchen to OJ killing his Ex while you are at it.

What an idiotic post/comparison.
 
#67
#67
There was a lot more in that investigation than that one package being sent to that one recruit. You can find more details here:

Kentucky could have received the death penalty for - 05.29.89 - SI Vault

Cover your eyes and ears, because here comes the truth:

Of Kentucky's many sins, the two gravest were academic fraud and sending money, in effect, to a recruit. But the seriousness of the violations and the scope of Kentucky's blatant disregard of the rules do not show up so much in what the NCAA did to Kentucky as in what it didn't do, as cited in paragraph 15 of the report on infractions.
"Because of the nature of the violations," reads the report, "...the committee seriously considered whether the regular-season schedule for the men's basketball program should be curtailed in whole or in part for one or two seasons of competition. In the judgment of the committee...the violations found would justify such a penalty."

In effect Kentucky basketball has been on the lam for four years, or since the Lexington Herald-Leader won a Pulitzer Prize for a 1985 investigation that exposed widespread corruption in the program, ranging from boosters' "$100 handshakes" with Wildcat stars to free meals for players and other unseemly perks. At that time the NCAA's crack investigative force, presumably made up of Geraldo Rivera, Inspector Clouseau and Roger Rabbit, failed to develop enough evidence to prosecute—although Kentucky-was cited by the NCAA for a lack of cooperation.

Some excerpts about the late 1980s investigation:

This time the violations were brain-bogglingly loud and sorrowfully clear.
For starters, former Kentucky assistant coach Dwane Casey, Manuel and sophomore forward Chris Mills all took heavy shots from the NCAA. Casey was found to have sent $1,000 to Mills's father, Claud, in an Emery Worldwide package in March 1988.

The NCAA found that Manuel, a high-school All-America, committed academic fraud by cheating on his college entrance exam, reportedly by copying answers from the test of another student in the Lexington school where the test was administered. That strikes at the heart of a university's integrity.

What about the Wildcat fans? "They won't change," says Phelps. "They'll just be mad at the NCAA. Some of them are part of the problem. I don't think that money [in the Emery envelope] came out of Eddies [Sutton's] pocket."

Here's an ode from the same article to your idol from the 1950s:

Cheating is nothing new to the pages of Kentucky's basketball scrapbook. Adolph Rupp's 1952-53 team was nailed with what amounted to the NCAA's first death penalty—the Wildcats had to sit out the winter playing intrasquad exhibitions—because of payments to players, which came to light during an investigation into a point-shaving scandal involving several Wildcat players...Rupp swore that someday the NCAA would hand him another championship trophy, which it did after his Fiddlin' Five won the 1958 title in Louisville.

So your idol wasn't exactly playing with a fair deck when he hung those early banners. Good thing you got to play the entire 1958 NCAA Tournament, all three games of it, in your home state (1 game in Lexington and 2 in Louisville).

Moving on to the Hall and Sutton eras...

Hall's detractors say he was insecure in Rupp's shoes, and afraid of failure, and by 1976 he had other concerns as well. That year, the NCAA announced that the Wildcats' scholarships would be limited for two seasons because of recruiting violations. Still, Hall gave the fat Cat boosters among the horsemen and coal-mine operators in the commonwealth access to practices and the locker room, even at halftimes of games. That stopped in 1985, when Hall retired and Sutton, practically begging for the job—who can forget his declaration that he would "crawl to Lexington" from Arkansas to coach at the University of Kentucky?—replaced him. When Hamilton left to coach Oklahoma State in '86, the word was that Kentucky retained a toehold on big-city recruiting by replacing him with Casey, who had played for Hall between 1976 and '79.

Bad as the situation in Lexington may be, it could have been worse. Still, the call-in shows are humming with vilifications of (then-UK President) Roselle for giving in, rather than with hosannas for having saved basketball from imminent demise. In January, Roselle said privately that he was taking the biggest gamble any Kentucky president could imagine by cooperating with the NCAA. "If I fail," he said, "no future president will have a chance to do things right."
Instead, thanks to Roselle, the Wildcats have another chance to do things right. One final chance.

And then your prayers were answered with Rick Pitino. You can open your eyes and ears now.

This is garbage. Stop making things up.
 
#69
#69
We can deflect all day from the main point, but that doesn't change the fact that UK is back. Title talk may be a bit premature, but if Meeks comes back, they will be a pre-season top 2 team, along with Kansas. With Meeks, you can flip a coin on which team is better between KU and UK. For all the talk about their freshmen and the idea that freshmen cannot typically lead a team to a title, we must remember that Patterson will be one of the top 10 national players next season and a possible 1st team All-American. Meeks, whom I sure we all remember, was a 2nd team All-American last year, and will be a pre-season 1st teamer should he return to Kentucky.

That said, they could be returning two of the best players in the nation, and both of whom are at least juniors. Checking their roster, they return two other guys who started for them in Stevenson and Harris, both of whom will be seniors. They also have the Miller kid who lit UT up at Rupp last year.

Had Cousins gone to Bama, he would have probably put up 15ppg and 7rpg. With Meeks, Wall, and Patterson, he won't even be one of UK's top three offensive options. Orton is a stud from what I gather, and would have been top 10 if not for an injury. Bledsoe would have started as a frosh for 80% of the team in the SEC next year. Hood was offered by Pearl. Dodson would have been a starter for Memphis next year.

I see no reason to pencil UK in the Final Four without Meeks coming back; however, if he does, UK will have three 1st team All-SEC guys on its roster, three guys who will probably be the best at their positions nationwide in terms of college-level impact. I mean, honestly, can you think of anyone nationwide who will be better than Wall at PG; better than Meeks at SG; or better than Patterson at PF?
 
#70
#70
I see no reason to pencil UK in the Final Four without Meeks coming back; however, if he does, UK will have three 1st team All-SEC guys on its roster, three guys who will probably be the best at their positions nationwide in terms of college-level impact. I mean, honestly, can you think of anyone nationwide who will be better than Wall at PG; better than Meeks at SG; or better than Patterson at PF?

Yes. If you honestly think all three are the best in the entire nation at their positions, you should think again.
 
#71
#71
Uh oh. Look who's back. :nono:

Fister I have been nothing but civil since my time back. But now that you want to start calling people out, how about we discuss your educational background. Two degree from Univ. of Kentucky and another from Univ. of Florida. You love UT so much...you don't even have the decency to enroll there. If there's anyone who loves UK here, it's YOU!!

And you really need to stop stalking Bruce Pearl. All those pictures of him on your computer is not healthy.
 
#73
#73
Really? I noticed you didn't list any names...

If you're talking college players, Luke Harangody (as much as I hate him) is an All-American who is easily better than Patterson. If you want NBA potential, Ed Davis and Greg Monroe are, again, easily better. That's just off the top of my head.
 
#74
#74
Fister I have been nothing but civil since my time back. But now that you want to start calling people out, how about we discuss your educational background. Two degree from Univ. of Kentucky and another from Univ. of Florida. You love UT so much...you don't even have the decency to enroll there. If there's anyone who loves UK here, it's YOU!!

And you really need to stop stalking Bruce Pearl. All those pictures of him on your computer is not healthy.

:no:

This Board is aware of my checkered past already.
 
#75
#75
If you're talking college players, Luke Harangody (as much as I hate him) is an All-American who is easily better than Patterson. If you want NBA potential, Ed Davis and Greg Monroe are, again, easily better. That's just off the top of my head.

I'm not talking NBA-potential, but if we did, Patterson would find himself drafted about 36 spots higher than Luke according to NBAdraft.net

In terms of college output, which is where we see guys placed on All-American teams as opposed to All-NBA-potential teams, Patterson's only real competition next year would be Davis - who will be an 18ppg, 9 rpg type stud by season's end. Even he isn't clearly better than Patterson, however. Anyway you slice it, Patterson is undoutedly one of the top 3 returning postmen next season. He did, after all, average something like 18ppg and 9 rpg while shooting upwards of 60% from the field. I shudder to think what he's capable of with actual talent surrounding him where he won't face double teams on every possession.

As for Wall and Meeks?
 

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