Coach Kellie Harper fired

[madtownvol]

Kim scoring the best recruiting class of the post Pat era after coaching just 4 games proves Holly and Kellie were robbing UT blind.

Whooa back to Holly even!! Let's do the time warp again

Actually , Holly did great on the recruiting front and routinely had top 5 classes. It was her final top 5 class that kept her on the job for an extra year.

But, she was coaching in the pre-NIL era.

I am not saying that CKC's success is all about better NIL funds. She still had to beat out a lot of top programs and coaches (who had deep NIL pockets) to get these signings. So, she is a difference maker.

But, if Kellie was hamstrung as some posters state in regard to subpar NIL support, we have to also acknowledge that she was not competing on a level playing field.

The fact that Tennessee kept making the short list of top recruits only to lose out to schools who were ahead on NIL suggest that indeed the support packages played a role in her failures in high school recruiting.

It is just weird to accuse Kellie and even Holly of "robbing" UT.

 

[Mafiaboss]

Whooa back to Holly even!! Let's do the time warp again

Actually , Holly did great on the recruiting front and routinely top 5 classes. It was here final top 5 class that her on the job for an extra year.

She was working in the pre-NIL era.

I am not saying that CKC's success is all about better NIL funds. She still had to beat out a lot top programs and coaches (who had deep NIL pockets) to get these signings. So, she is a difference maker.

But, if Kellie was hamstrung as some posters state in regard to subpar NIL support, we have to also acknowledge that she was not competing on a level playing field.

The fact that Tennessee kept making the short list of top recruits only to lose out to schools who were ahead on NIL suggest that indeed the packages played a role in her failures in high school recruiting.

It is just weird to accuse Kellie and even Holly of "robbing" UT.

I agree. But why wasn’t Kellie given access to NIL funds?

 

[chuckiepoo]

I agree. But why wasn’t Kellie given access to NIL funds?

We don’t know that she wasnt. The only source that alleges that was the case is Earl. The same source that alleged she would certainly get another year.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

I agree. But why wasn’t Kellie given access to NIL funds?

Not saying it didn't happen but doesn't really make sense that her program was singled out for no funds. Have not seen anyone with a definitive answer IF this is true. Can't imagine Kellie would not have been making it known her recruiting was suffering due to lack of NIL $ and if she did it was not public knowledge.

Things just don't smell right here with this.

 

[madtownvol]

I agree. But why wasn’t Kellie given access to NIL funds?

It is clear that she was. Rickea got a deal; Jewell got a deal. The narrative is that LVs NIL packages were far below that of other upper tier programs but not that she did not have some funds to work with. So, she could put together competitive packages for a few but not many.

This narrative has come from one specific poster, who seems to have been close to the program as a major donor but I don't believe that question of why Kellie was being underfunded (if that were indeed the case) has ever been answered.

 

[ttharp]

But, if Kellie was hamstrung as some posters state in regard to subpar NIL support, we have to also acknowledge that she was not competing on a level playing field.

The fact that Tennessee kept making the short list of top recruits only to lose out to schools who were ahead on NIL suggest that indeed the packages played a role in her failures in high school recruiting.

It is just weird to accuse Kellie and even Holly of "robbing" UT.

I simply don’t buy the NIL excuse for a lot of reasons but here’s a couple:

1) IMO, it assumes the HS recruits that said no to TN late in the KJH era are money hungry kids who cared little about the coach/school they eventually chose and their future outside of basketball. Many of those kids chose to play for winning programs/coaches.

2) It assumes the kids that DID choose TN (Nyla and Finley) didn’t really care about NIL and chose the school because of the legacy, coaches and other things the school has to offer.

If I’m not mistaken, Mia and Mya have major NIL deals that’ll follow them to TN. Money wasn’t an issue for them. When Deniya committed, she spoke about her love for the legacy, how Kim shifted her perspective, and her desire to help get TN back to where it was when Pat was here. Jaida talked about how much she loved the staff and style of play. Same with Lauren.

 

[ttharp]

But, if Kellie was hamstrung as some posters state in regard to subpar NIL support, we have to also acknowledge that she was not competing on a level playing field.

The fact that Tennessee kept making the short list of top recruits only to lose out to schools who were ahead on NIL suggest that indeed the packages played a role in her failures in high school recruiting.

It is just weird to accuse Kellie and even Holly of "robbing" UT.

I simply don’t buy the NIL excuse for a lot of reasons but here’s a couple:

1) IMO, it assumes the HS recruits that said no to TN late in the KJH era are money hungry kids who cared little about the coach/school they eventually chose and their future outside of basketball. Many of those kids chose to play for winning programs/coaches.

2) It assumes the kids that DID choose TN (Nyla and Finley) didn’t really care about NIL and chose the school because of the legacy, coaches and other things the school has to offer.

If I’m not mistaken, Mia and Mya have major NIL deals that’ll follow them to TN. Money wasn’t an issue for them. When Deniya committed, she spoke about her love for the legacy, how Kim shifted her perspective, and her desire to help get TN back to where it was when Pat was here. Jaida talked about how much she loved the staff and style of play. Same with Lauren.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

This thread is why I'm not a fan of ex players being a Head Coach at the College they played for. Peyton Manning just as Kellie Harper is loved and cherished but if he was HC of the football team this fan base would turn on him in a New York Minute if he wasn't getting results they desired.

The Lady Vols have too much tradition to just be a R32 team or S16 every season, it's really sucks Knowing that clown up North bypassed Pat's number of NCAA Championship. Speaking for myself I truly believe the right move was made and yes it sucked that Kellie was a LAdy Vols treasure but AD Danny White done what he believed "What was best for business" and as of RIGHT now with a Top recruiting class and a new system there's more excitement in the air for the Lady Vols in the past 10 years.

As far as the NIL helping the recruiting this year, of course it has any individuals who denies that are lying to themselves. Although let's also admit the previous staff wasn't setting the World on fire WITH or WITHOUT the NIL.

So let's just put the past in the rearview mirror and move forward and get behind what CKC is doing so far and if she doesn't get the Job done then just fire her and start over.

Go Lady Vols

P.S. when the spelling and grammar patrol come zooming in and complain about my grammar and spelling. My reply is I paid a 30 year mortgage off in 23 years and my essay writing skills didn't have a damn thing to do with it. BTW Kellie Harper will be loved no matter how successful or unsuccessful she was at TENNESSEE as HC.

You can love KJH the VFL player but not like CKJH the HC.

The problem is some people can’t separate the two and think that anyone who is unhappy with CKJH doesn’t like KJH the VFL.

People get over promoted all the time but it is the issue with doing business with family it always gets messy.

 

[madtownvol]

I simply don’t buy the NIL excuse for a lot of reasons but here’s a couple:

1) IMO, it assumes the HS recruits that said no to TN late in the KJH era are money hungry kids who cared little about the coach/school they eventually chose and their future outside of basketball. Many of those kids chose to play for winning programs/coaches.

2) It assumes the kids that DID choose TN (Nyla and Finley) didn’t really care about NIL and chose the school because of the legacy, coaches and other things the school has to offer.

If I’m not mistaken, Mia and Mya have major NIL deals that’ll follow them to TN. Money wasn’t an issue for them. When Deniya committed, she spoke about her love for the legacy, how Kim shifted her perspective, and her desire to help get TN back to where it was when Pat was here. Jaida talked about how much she loved the staff and style of play. Same with Lauren.

Well, you are making it an either or. If a player chooses Notre Dame over Tennessee, they are not exactly foregoing an education or a tradition. A player can have it all -- school, tradition, and NIL.

Easy enough to say that Nyla and Finley (who had a non-binding agreement) were outliers or they were able to get decent enough NIL packages. Again Kellie's problem was a numbers game but she could sign the periodic good player.

Since Nyla de-committed, it would seem that she was not all that bound by the school or its hallowed traditions and maybe decided that she had settled for less than her market value.

I have no idea why you would believe that a kid's "future beyond basketball" depends on having a degree from the University of Tennessee. Oh, those poor Stanford, Duke, Texas, NC, and Uconn graduates who are all destitute now!!! And woe is Juju Watkins, what a horrible fate awaits her being from U of South Cali!!

 

[Majors]

I agree. But why wasn’t Kellie given access to NIL funds?

Giving access to funds hides her coaching inabilities. Not a good investment, if you’re not getting your ROI on the court with wins.

 

[Mafiaboss]

I simply don’t buy the NIL excuse for a lot of reasons but here’s a couple:

1) IMO, it assumes the HS recruits that said no to TN late in the KJH era are money hungry kids who cared little about the coach/school they eventually chose and their future outside of basketball. Many of those kids chose to play for winning programs/coaches.

2) It assumes the kids that DID choose TN (Nyla and Finley) didn’t really care about NIL and chose the school because of the legacy, coaches and other things the school has to offer.

If I’m not mistaken, Mia and Mya have major NIL deals that’ll follow them to TN. Money wasn’t an issue for them. When Deniya committed, she spoke about her love for the legacy, how Kim shifted her perspective, and her desire to help get TN back to where it was when Pat was here. Jaida talked about how much she loved the staff and style of play. Same with Lauren.

Nyla said being a Lady Vol was her dream. Hmmmmm

 

[Mafiaboss]

I’ve always loved KH. I wanted her to bring it back for the program. It really upset me when she was let go, but I knew it had to happen. I’d just like to know why she had trouble recruiting.

 

[MAD]

Why does Margaret Hutson get a pass?

 

[chuckiepoo]

Why does Margaret Hutson get a pass?

Wydt…isi

 

[chuckiepoo]

I’ve always loved KH. I wanted her to bring it back for the program. It really upset me when she was let go, but I knew it had to happen. I’d just like to know why she had trouble recruiting.

I’ve got a few factors in mind that may have contributed to Kellie’s difficulty closing the deal with top recruits. To me, they are apparent.

I am sure they are apparent to most of this board. I remember Ivaree scolding me and explaining, “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”

 

[madtownvol]

I’ve got a few factors in mind that may have contributed to Kellie’s difficulty closing the deal with top recruits. To me, they are apparent.

I am sure they are apparent to most of this board. I remember Ivaree scolding me and explaining, “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”

MTV : Oooh! This doesn't sound like the usual mindless boring getting to know you chit chat. It sounds like you actually have something to say.

Chuckiepoo : Well, well, I do, I do. But you have to promise not to be offended.

MTV : No. No, no. You can't promise something like that. I have no idea what you're going to tell me. So you can go ahead and tell me what you're going to tell me, and my natural response could be to get offended, then through no fault of my own I would have broken my promise.

Chuckiepoo: Let's just forget it.

MTV: That's an impossibility. Trying to forget anything as intriguing as this would be an exercise in futility.

[Thanks to Quentin Tarantino!!]

 

[Volinnooga]

It baffles me why some insist on celebrating CKS’s successes with referencing CKH’s struggles. New coach, new coaching focus, different methods. Move on.

I really do think those that advocated for CKH’s firing feel they ought to be congratulated for getting what they wanted and want those who didn’t think CKH ought to be fired should applaud them for getting what they wanted. It’s just weird to me that some won’t move on.

 

[glv98]

It is clear that she was. Rickea got a deal; Jewell got a deal. The narrative is that LVs NIL packages were far below that of other upper tier programs but not that she did not have some funds to work with. So, she could put together competitive packages for a few but not many.

This narrative has come from one specific poster, who seems to have been close to the program as a major donor but I don't believe that question of why Kellie was being underfunded (if that were indeed the case) has ever been answered.

It wasn't just Earl, a couple of other posters claiming to be in the know also said there were NIL issues the last staff was constantly fighting.

My understanding is the last staff was fighting a last stand by what most would call "the blue hairs", the LV Oldheads desperate not to see the tradition slip away. So LV NIL got fractured off to basically a group of superfans around Orange Mtn Designs. Very well-intentioned but nowhere near the calibur of professional fund raising needed to compete in big time recruiting. As you said, they were able to get special situation deals for the portal in emergencies, but it was small potatoes. The move to the big Vol Collective seems to have been a big boost.

We also heard part of the donor reluctance was hesitency about Kellie and the program which seemed in a nearly decade long slump. The infusion of new energy, plus the AD wanting his big gamble to work, seems to have done the trick.

Why does Margaret Hutson get a pass?

Because she's 105 yrs old?

 

[Ladyvolfan4ever]

LETITGO

 

[glv98]

Kim scoring the best recruiting class of the post Pat era after coaching just 4 games proves Holly and Kellie were robbing UT blind.

That's incredibly harsh, esp for a couple of LVFLs. Pretty mean, really.

Both women were wealthy before their crash outs as coaches. At that point, I don't think there's any amount of money you could have given them to be public failures in their profession at the the school they loved.

Not fair to question the integrity of either. Both had exemplery public reputations.

 

[madtownvol]

It wasn't just Earl, a couple of other posters claiming to be in the know also said there were NIL issues the last staff was constantly fighting.

My understanding is the last staff was fighting a last stand by what most would call "the blue hairs", the LV Oldheads desperate not to see the tradition slip away. So LV NIL got fractured off to basically a group of superfans around Orange Mtn Designs. Very well-intentioned but nowhere near the calibur of professional fund raising needed to compete in big time recruiting. As you said, they were able to get special situation deals for the portal in emergencies, but it was small potatoes. The move to the big Vol Collective seems to have been a big boost.

We also heard part of the donor reluctance was hesitency about Kellie and the program which seemed in a nearly decade long slump. The infusion of new energy, plus the AD wanting his big gamble to work, seems to have done the trick.

Thanks GLV, that is a great summary of the different narratives that have been floating around.

Now that it is all laid out, I am skeptical of the blue hair story. I can't image that KJH, or White for that matter, would accept such crippling recruiting limitations just to keep the blue hairs happy.

It seems more likely that the deep pocket NIL donors weren't willing to invest in Kellie and the traditionalists tried to fill the gap as best they could.

But, all water under the bridge....

 

[Volfan1000]

It will be interesting to see how many jobs Harper is linked to in the next hiring cycle.

 

[glv98]

Thanks GLV, that is a great summary of the different narratives that have been floating around.

Now that it is all laid out, I am skeptical of the blue hair story. I can't image that KJH, or White for that matter, would accept such crippling recruiting limitations just to keep the blue hairs happy.

It seems more likely that the deep pocket NIL donors weren't willing to invest in Kellie and the traditionalists tried to fill the gap as best they could.

But, all water under the bridge....

I mean it happened. That small group of nonprofessionals had the control bc of insistence the LV NIL be separate. I said the same. If it’s hurting why is it allowed to continue? Then it wasn’t allowed to continue any more and everything changed. What part of that are you skeptical about?

I’m pretty sure both things were true. There was Kellie reluctance and LV NIL was tragically mishandled by well meaning nickle and dime amateurs.

 

[chuckiepoo]

I hate it when that happens. Auto refresh sucks.

I’ll throw one out there.

Is it possible they, Donde and DW, were setting up an opportunity for a clean break? If the status quo succeeded, great! If it didn’t, he would make his own hire. Another issue was targets for the position. How long had CKC been on his radar?

 

[madtownvol]

I mean it happened. That small group of nonprofessionals had the control bc of insistence the LV NIL be separate. I said the same. If it’s hurting why is it allowed to continue? Then it wasn’t allowed to continue any more and everything changed. What part of that are you skeptical about?

I’m pretty sure both things were true. There was Kellie reluctance and LV NIL was tragically mishandled by well meaning nickle and dime amateurs.

If you know for a fact that is how it played out, then it is what it is. I thought this was all in the “he said, she said realm”. My mistake