coaching discussion (split)

[xanamanax]

Depleted roster? I don't know how many times in this forum people have talked about how much talent there is on this roster. How many All Americans and future pros there are I'm not sure. If that is the case then they are not being coached very well, wouldn't you say. They are not on the brink of anything Mikey. Anytime they play a significant game of any kind they get blown out. That is coaching Mikey, the system is broken.

In last year's NCAAs, the LVs beat Arizona State, the #2 seed in their region, on ASU's home floor. The LVs also throttled #3 seed Ohio State in the Sweet 16. What do you consider a significant game? Just the ones they lose?

 

[mikey2smart]

Depleted roster? I don't know how many times in this forum people have talked about how much talent there is on this roster. How many All Americans and future pros there are I'm not sure. If that is the case then they are not being coached very well, wouldn't you say. They are not on the brink of anything Mikey. Anytime they play a significant game of any kind they get blown out. That is coaching Mikey, the system is broken.

Top Gun please enlighten me and tell us all exactly how much coaching experience you have? Until you have walked a mile in a coaches shoes you can continue to use your outsider based knowledge all you want but I'm telling you you have no clue what you speak of. You are no there with the team and have no clue what Holly is teaching the girls. So all you are doing is speculating and you look just as dumb as the others doing so.

 

[Benionsopinion]

Mikey,according to you,one who has never coached should not venture any opinion as to any coaching decisions. This would knock many knowledgable people out of saying anything pro or con. I don't recall many people saying that they could do a better job,only that Holly needs to do better. As a coach,don't you put your best team on the floor and schematically try to lead them to a win? That seems to be what most are saying---that Holly needs to improve her scheme. Maybe you need a "safe space" so you won't be aggravated by fans giving opinions.

 

[mikey2smart]

Mikey,according to you,one who has never coached should not venture any opinion as to any coaching decisions. This would knock many knowledgable people out of saying anything pro or con. I don't recall many people saying that they could do a better job,only that Holly needs to do better. As a coach,don't you put your best team on the floor and schematically try to lead them to a win? That seems to be what most are saying---that Holly needs to improve her scheme. Maybe you need a "safe space" so you won't be aggravated by fans giving opinions.

No your opinion is just that an opinion. What I'm saying is that you have no clue as to what she does (or any coach for that matter) on a daily basis with the team. Just because you are beat doesn't mean your coach can't coach. It just means you weren't the better team on that day. I do recall the same two teams playing earlier in the year (Tenn vs Syracuse) with a different outcome. Maybe just maybe the adjustments made by Quentin Hillman were the difference maker. There are way more factors involved than you know and are willing to take into account. That is why your opinion matters not!!!

 

[Top Gun]

In last year's NCAAs, the LVs beat Arizona State, the #2 seed in their region, on ASU's home floor. The LVs also throttled #3 seed Ohio State in the Sweet 16. What do you consider a significant game? Just the ones they lose?

You got me there xana. I have to admit I lost some enthusiasm the last couple of years with the Lady Vols. I traveled to several final fours, have seen the nets come down, and also have seen them lose a few. The talent and enthusiam is now lacking. The never ending need for excellence is not a requirement any longer. I have been spoiled and it is hard to settle for mediocrity now. Sorry, that is how I roll.

 

[mlindsay]

No your opinion is just that an opinion. What I'm saying is that you have no clue as to what she does (or any coach for that matter) on a daily basis with the team. Just because you are beat doesn't mean your coach can't coach. It just means you weren't the better team on that day. I do recall the same two teams playing earlier in the year (Tenn vs Syracuse) with a different outcome. Maybe just maybe the adjustments made by Quentin Hillman were the difference maker. There are way more factors involved than you know and are willing to take into account. That is why your opinion matters not!!!

You just concluded the million dollar debate. Hillman made adjustments following the first meeting that ensured if he met us again he would not lose to us. Holly refused to make the same adjustments (at the half of the tournament game) but yet people want to say it is because Jordan didn't play and both Graves and Carter were hurt. Those are excuses you play with who you have and you coach them up accordingly. I don't hear Geno making excuses for when his team isn't successful. I didn't hear Muffet complain about Taya Reimer deciding to transfer from what could've been a championship team last year. Vandeveer won't complain about Lili Thompson not playing on what she thought would be a final four team. The only ones with constant excuses are the ones who have shown an inability to get it done when it matters the most (Holly and JoAnne P. McCaulley). People (including myself) are willing to give Holly the benefit of the doubt but now it is a put up or shut up thing. You can't blame Elzy for not getting the recruits if you strike out this year because according to most there is a wider net this year than last and you can't blame not having certain players because you already know going in the season that you would only have 9 and there were chances for her to add players later on and she chose not to (for whatever reason). So it's make or break in recruiting this year and for the season as well and I am wishing the best for her (even if I feel we could do better at the Head Coaching spot)

 

[mlindsay]

You got me there xana. I have to admit I lost some enthusiasm the last couple of years with the Lady Vols. I traveled to several final fours, have seen the nets come down, and also have seen them lose a few. The talent and enthusiam is now lacking. The never ending need for excellence is not a requirement any longer. I have been spoiled and it is hard to settle for mediocrity now. Sorry, that is how I roll.

As it should be! Pat set a standard of excellence and that's the Lady Vols program should always strive for. Anything less than a Final Four should be unacceptable and I am sure coaches who have win titles recently feel the same way. Mediocrity should not be accepted imo.

 

[th2421]

As it should be! Pat set a standard of excellence and that's the Lady Vols program should always strive for. Anything less than a Final Four should be unacceptable and I am sure coaches who have win titles recently feel the same way. Mediocrity should not be accepted imo.

I know there's disagreement on this board about this, but I'd characterize "anything less than a Final Four" as "disappointing" maybe, but "mediocre" isn't fair given the growing parity and depth of talent in women's basketball (outside of UConn's dominance). I would agree that last season was mediocre (at best) and for a program that strives for excellence, we should be more competitive as a consistent favorite to get to the Final Four, but it does feel like actually getting there is harder and harder every year (for all programs).

 

[mikey2smart]

You just concluded the million dollar debate. Hillman made adjustments following the first meeting that ensured if he met us again he would not lose to us. Holly refused to make the same adjustments (at the half of the tournament game) but yet people want to say it is because Jordan didn't play and both Graves and Carter were hurt. Those are excuses you play with who you have and you coach them up accordingly. I don't hear Geno making excuses for when his team isn't successful. I didn't hear Muffet complain about Taya Reimer deciding to transfer from what could've been a championship team last year. Vandeveer won't complain about Lili Thompson not playing on what she thought would be a final four team. The only ones with constant excuses are the ones who have shown an inability to get it done when it matters the most (Holly and JoAnne P. McCaulley). People (including myself) are willing to give Holly the benefit of the doubt but now it is a put up or shut up thing. You can't blame Elzy for not getting the recruits if you strike out this year because according to most there is a wider net this year than last and you can't blame not having certain players because you already know going in the season that you would only have 9 and there were chances for her to add players later on and she chose not to (for whatever reason). So it's make or break in recruiting this year and for the season as well and I am wishing the best for her (even if I feel we could do better at the Head Coaching spot)

I hope you don't look as dumb as you sound right now. As a fan you can voice your opinion all you want, but Holly never once mentioned a depleted roster as the reasoning for their loss in the Elite 8. Also, did the in game adjustments work for Quentin Hillman the first time they met? No, doesn't mean none were made. Just wasn't their time to win. Their time came in the tournament. You tried to use my words against me and it still didn't work. Better luck next time! Basketball is about match ups and timing always has a say so. If you were a coach you'd know that.

 

[mlindsay]

I know there's disagreement on this board about this, but I'd characterize "anything less than a Final Four" as "disappointing" maybe, but "mediocre" isn't fair given the growing parity and depth of talent in women's basketball (outside of UConn's dominance). I would agree that last season was mediocre (at best) and for a program that strives for excellence, we should be more competitive as a consistent favorite to get to the Final Four, but it does feel like actually getting there is harder and harder every year (for all programs).

Ok I can give you a pass for that and I also try to remember UConn will always dominate imo because of the wack AAC conference that they play in. (yes they play a tough non-conference schedule) They really have the easiest road to a number one seed imo and they always seem to play the top teams at Storrs or at a neutral site.

 

[Amb3096]

It takes a legend to replace a legend.

It really does. Tennessee was an elite program, and the succession plan should have been to find someone that has successfully built a program, not a lifelong assistant. It was a nice lifeline for Pat to a loyal assistant, but there were dozens of better candidates out there who could have done a better job.

 

[Amb3096]

Ok I can give you a pass for that and I also try to remember UConn will always dominate imo because of the wack AAC conference that they play in. (yes they play a tough non-conference schedule) They really have the easiest road to a number one seed imo and they always seem to play the top teams at Storrs or at a neutral site.

They massacred Ohio State by like 50 points and beat South Carolina on the road last year. Notre Dame was their other big OOC game, and they won at home (they won on the road the previous season).

Don't get me wrong...I'm looking forward to UConn falling in the pack this year, but they were simply a much better team than everyone else last year. All this talk about if they played in a tougher conference...did you see what they did to Texas and Miss State in the tournament?

They are a dominant team in spite of, not because of, their weak conference. They were getting #1 seeds last year because teams could not stay with them.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I hope you don't look as dumb as you sound right now. As a fan you can voice your opinion all you want, but Holly never once mentioned a depleted roster as the reasoning for their loss in the Elite 8. Also, did the in game adjustments work for Quentin Hillman the first time they met? No, doesn't mean none were made. Just wasn't their time to win. Their time came in the tournament. You tried to use my words against me and it still didn't work. Better luck next time! Basketball is about match ups and timing always has a say so. If you were a coach you'd know that.

Who are you anyway MIKEY?..Go back to selling "Life" cereal.

Basketball is about a hell of a lot more than just matchups. If it were just about matchups, we would have lost maybe 2-3 games the whole season last year.

You call yourself a coach, act like one.

BB is about game-plan, orchestrating practice sessions to correct team flaws, coaching personalities, managing refs, recruiting, selling your program, and a hundred other things.

Just by what you have said, I know the type of coach you are... One of excuses.

 

[Coach Jumper]

You just concluded the million dollar debate. Hillman made adjustments following the first meeting that ensured if he met us again he would not lose to us. Holly refused to make the same adjustments (at the half of the tournament game) but yet people want to say it is because Jordan didn't play and both Graves and Carter were hurt. Those are excuses you play with who you have and you coach them up accordingly. I don't hear Geno making excuses for when his team isn't successful. I didn't hear Muffet complain about Taya Reimer deciding to transfer from what could've been a championship team last year. Vandeveer won't complain about Lili Thompson not playing on what she thought would be a final four team. The only ones with constant excuses are the ones who have shown an inability to get it done when it matters the most (Holly and JoAnne P. McCaulley). People (including myself) are willing to give Holly the benefit of the doubt but now it is a put up or shut up thing. You can't blame Elzy for not getting the recruits if you strike out this year because according to most there is a wider net this year than last and you can't blame not having certain players because you already know going in the season that you would only have 9 and there were chances for her to add players later on and she chose not to (for whatever reason). So it's make or break in recruiting this year and for the season as well and I am wishing the best for her (even if I feel we could do better at the Head Coaching spot)

And VolNation thought I came on strong. This mikey character takes the cake. What you said above is correct... They made adjustments, we didn't.

I would take those nine players we have a crush opponents. I believe Coach Mikey would love to have nine as well...As an excuse for losing.

 

[mlindsay]

They massacred Ohio State by like 50 points and beat South Carolina on the road last year. Notre Dame was their other big OOC game, and they won at home (they won on the road the previous season).

Don't get me wrong...I'm looking forward to UConn falling in the pack this year, but they were simply a much better team than everyone else last year. All this talk about if they played in a tougher conference...did you see what they did to Texas and Miss State in the tournament?

They are a dominant team in spite of, not because of, their weak conference. They were getting #1 seeds last year because teams could not stay with them.

I should've included moving forward, last year they had far greater talent than everyone, and a superior coach (imo), moving forward with teams like Baylor (who should be much improved) Maryland (who seems to have the players every year but he also seems to outcoach) Ohio State (all of their transfers seem to be eligible at the same time lol) and South Carolina I would love to see how they do out of conference this year but what I was saying was their in conference schedule will always put them in a greater seed come tournament time because they are likely to always win their conference (it's no fault of Geno's because I'm sure he would prefer to be in a better conference)

 

[Nuyoika]

I should've included moving forward, last year they had far greater talent than everyone, and a superior coach (imo), moving forward with teams like Baylor (who should be much improved) Maryland (who seems to have the players every year but he also seems to outcoach) Ohio State (all of their transfers seem to be eligible at the same time lol) and South Carolina I would love to see how they do out of conference this year but what I was saying was their in conference schedule will always put them in a greater seed come tournament time because they are likely to always win their conference (it's no fault of Geno's because I'm sure he would prefer to be in a better conference)

I just don't know that winning an AAC championship has a major factor in them getting a #1 seed. I would think it is actually more likely that loosing the AAC title would hurt them more than winning would ever help them.. if you get what I am saying.

I would wager that over the course of the 2015-2016 season, UCONN has knocked off ACC champion Notre Dame (91-81), Big East champion Depaul (86-70), Big 10 champion Maryland (83-73) Southern Conference champion Tennessee-Chattanooga (79-31) and SEC champion South Carolina (66-54). Those wins likely had a lot more to do with the #1 seed than anything they could do in conference although with USF being ranked beating them 3 times in conference and in the conference tourney was marginally helpful.

They took on all comers and performed well and if they weren't as good as advertised it likely would have shown up when they had to play the SEC runner up Miss State whom they beat by a ridiculous margin and then the PAC 12 Champions Oregon State who I believe lost by 30ish?

That's the problem with UConn though... when they are the #1 seed over all... they really are the #1 seed over all. They are as advertised 99% of the time and for some sports fans especially opposing fans that's hard to deal with.

Coaching can make up for a lot of things. I think this along with the players they recruit, and the willingness of those players to learn and grow over 4 years it what makes them hard to beat.

Last I checked there have only been 9 coaches who have beaten Geno & staff in the last 10 years. Of those 9 coaches 5 already have at least 1 National Championship, 5 have 800 or more wins, and all but 2 have at least 300 wins. So basically he generally loses to his "peers" when he does lose. So if anyone wants to join that list this is definitely the year to get your W.

I thought someone did an analysis on here earlier in the year that showed that Tennessee had a starting 5 of players that were all ranked in the top 15 in their class last year so the players were comparable from that stand point... could be wrong on that though.

 

[mikey2smart]

Who are you anyway MIKEY?..Go back to selling "Life" cereal.

Basketball is about a hell of a lot more than just matchups. If it were just about matchups, we would have lost maybe 2-3 games the whole season last year.

You call yourself a coach, act like one.

BB is about game-plan, orchestrating practice sessions to correct team flaws, coaching personalities, managing refs, recruiting, selling your program, and a hundred other things.

Just by what you have said, I know the type of coach you are... One of excuses.

Coach Jumper you are the one out here lobbying for a coaching gig not I. I don't make excuses or push blame for my coaching mistakes, I use them as teaching tools and learn from them. Obviously the game of basketball is about more than match ups but you just proved my point to be very valid that it more complex than most people here are willing to acknowledge or even know. As for your opinion of me, I care less what you or anyone else here thinks of me. You don't have a say so on any of my day to day life necessities or my job security so how about instead of sticking up for your butt buddies, you use your so called "basketball knowledge" to get a coaching gig so I can then bash your every decision like you do Holly!!

 

[Benionsopinion]

No your opinion is just that an opinion. What I'm saying is that you have no clue as to what she does (or any coach for that matter) on a daily basis with the team. Just because you are beat doesn't mean your coach can't coach. It just means you weren't the better team on that day. I do recall the same two teams playing earlier in the year (Tenn vs Syracuse) with a different outcome. Maybe just maybe the adjustments made by Quentin Hillman were the difference maker. There are way more factors involved than you know and are willing to take into account. That is why your opinion matters not!!!

What you are actually saying is that my opinion matters not,unless,of course I'm a coach. Sorry,Mikey,my opinion counts as much as yours no matter that you say you are a coach. Now in a later post you show your true colors by talking about someone's looks. Typical reaction by one who sees he cannot sway other opinions,so he tries to denigrate someone's appearance. As I said,go to your "safe space".

 

[Benionsopinion]

Who are you anyway MIKEY?..Go back to selling "Life" cereal.

Basketball is about a hell of a lot more than just matchups. If it were just about matchups, we would have lost maybe 2-3 games the whole season last year.

You call yourself a coach, act like one.

BB is about game-plan, orchestrating practice sessions to correct team flaws, coaching personalities, managing refs, recruiting, selling your program, and a hundred other things.

Just by what you have said, I know the type of coach you are... One of excuses.

Thanks,Coach Jumper,been waiting for your input.

 

[mikey2smart]

And VolNation thought I came on strong. This mikey character takes the cake. What you said above is correct... They made adjustments, we didn't.

I would take those nine players we have a crush opponents. I believe Coach Mikey would love to have nine as well...As an excuse for losing.

Obviously you use this forum to try and boost your resume. Well I'll tell you this talk is cheap. If you were half as good as you say, you'd be in the gym right now instead of behind a keyboard. You keep talking yourself up and maybe just maybe a director at YMCA will hear you and bring in, okay! #HeNeedsAJob

 

[mikey2smart]

What you are actually saying is that my opinion matters not,unless,of course I'm a coach. Sorry,Mikey,my opinion counts as much as yours no matter that you say you are a coach. Now in a later post you show your true colors by talking about someone's looks. Typical reaction by one who sees he cannot sway other opinions,so he tries to denigrate someone's appearance. As I said,go to your "safe space".

I didn't talk about your look, how can I when I don't know what you look like. What I said refers more to how you sound than how you look but you wouldn't know what an inference was it bit you square between the eyes. Obviously you and your gang leader Jumper (or lack there of) have to get together to pull your little double teams but I'm not phased by any of it. Your lack of true basketball knowledge is gleaming clear and that is why you come here to have others read your ridiculous assumptions as you pass them off as fact. Well I call b/s. On you and the wannabe coach. Take your Holly bashing back to the backwater mud hole you crawled out of.

 

[Benionsopinion]

No,you talked about another poster looking as dumb as he sounds. I have my opinion,which is just as valid as yours. I do not push it on others,nor do I accept the point that saying you are a coach makes your opinion matter more than any other poster. It would seem that you ,if you can't sway opinions,are prone to try and castigate others. Whatever kind of coach you are,your attitude is not conducive toward a cohesive team.

 

[mikey2smart]

No,you talked about another poster looking as dumb as he sounds. I have my opinion,which is just as valid as yours. I do not push it on others,nor do I accept the point that saying you are a coach makes your opinion matter more than any other poster. It would seem that you ,if you can't sway opinions,are prone to try and castigate others. Whatever kind of coach you are,your attitude is not conducive toward a cohesive team.

This is why you can't have a civilized conversation with people like you because you read bits and pieces of what people say and form your own conclusion as to what they are saying. What I said was I hope you don't look as dumb as you sound right now proving my point that you have no clue what an inference is. That was more about the post than the poster. I never said that because I coach my opinion is more valid, what I did say was that you would be more informed and know that the stuff you are saying about Holly is inaccurate. There is a complex of things that goes into making a winning team. You however clearly don't understand that. Until you do, you will continue to post misinformed post and be called out by people such as myself!

 

[Coach Jumper]

This is why you can't have a civilized conversation with people like you because you read bits and pieces of what people say and form your own conclusion as to what they are saying. What I said was I hope you don't look as dumb as you sound right now proving my point that you have no clue what an inference is. That was more about the post than the poster. I never said that because I coach my opinion is more valid, what I did say was that you would be more informed and know that the stuff you are saying about Holly is inaccurate. There is a complex of things that goes into making a winning team. You however clearly don't understand that. Until you do, you will continue to post misinformed post and be called out by people such as myself!

Blah blah blah and then,,, blah

I imagine playing for you would be as formidable a task as reading your constant barrage.

If you permit excuses for a bad game/season/life, it can only be because you use them.

I don't.
I don't know you and probably never will.
But I am convinced I could out-coach you.

These posters you constantly barrage with demeaning prose are not minions, they are fans of the lady vols and important people to this site,, and would be missed if they weren't around...You on the other hand... Yawn,, Did you leave yet?

Is he gone?

 

[Coach Jumper]

Coach Jumper you are the one out here lobbying for a coaching gig not I. I don't make excuses or push blame for my coaching mistakes, I use them as teaching tools and learn from them. Obviously the game of basketball is about more than match ups but you just proved my point to be very valid that it more complex than most people here are willing to acknowledge or even know. As for your opinion of me, I care less what you or anyone else here thinks of me. You don't have a say so on any of my day to day life necessities or my job security so how about instead of sticking up for your butt buddies, you use your so called "basketball knowledge" to get a coaching gig so I can then bash your every decision like you do Holly!!

I am more than lobbying, mickey, I am working towards that goal. I am in the sight of every one of the staff in less than a year. I have worked out one and been asked for by another player. Can you make that same claim?.. Didn't think so.

I do have friends and colleagues here, but no butt-buddies. Not even sure what that means...But it sure sounds homophobic. As a coach, I wouldn't go throwing around slurs like that.