Comparing Pearl to some of nation's elite coaches

#26
#26
BigPapaVol said:
Who? Most advised people not to come to UT because of the lack of support and fan indifference.
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Yet people knew that if you could get a good start at UT you could be successful, just like Pearl did.
 
#27
#27
Unimane said:
Actually, that was what we were saying as fans. I very clearly remember Tennessee being referred to as a "coaching graveyard" by most analysts with Buzz and Green lasting 4 years apiece. A few may have said there was potential here, but certainly not a "sleeping giant".
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Exactly. Pearl took a flyer due to his limited options. Great deal for both in retrospect.
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#28
#28
Unimane said:
Actually, that was what we were saying as fans. I very clearly remember Tennessee being referred to as a "coaching graveyard" by most analysts with Buzz and Green lasting 4 years apiece. A few may have said there was potential here, but certainly not a "sleeping giant".
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I don't even remember fans saying that much less media.
 
#29
#29
Unimane said:
Actually, that was what we were saying as fans. I very clearly remember Tennessee being referred to as a "coaching graveyard" by most analysts with Buzz and Green lasting 4 years apiece. A few may have said there was potential here, but certainly not a "sleeping giant".
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not once Hamilton was in and willing to help with basketball
 
#30
#30
I agree with the OP and thank God for the ignore feature.
 
#31
#31
zjcvols said:
not once Hamilton was in and willing to help with basketball
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I assure that nobody yet knew Hamilton was going to go so hard after hoops. most coaches in the discussion assumed more Dickey style stupidity.
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#32
#32
BigPapaVol said:
I assure that nobody yet knew Hamilton was going to go so hard after hoops. most coaches in the discussion assumed more Dickey style stupidity.
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This is a point often lost in these threads... I don't think a lot of people realize and/or remember how horrible Dickey was for the bball program. I at least give Hamilton credit for trying.
 
#33
#33
BigPapaVol said:
I assure that nobody yet knew Hamilton was going to go so hard after hoops. most coaches in the discussion assumed more Dickey style stupidity.
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Yes, Hamilton was a complete unknown without having made any hires. Hell, we all thought he was afraid of Fulmer and our basketball record was established under Dickey, which was not a good thing.

Pearl was going to have options based upon his season at UWM (Which he would've had nearly all of that team back had he stayed and further enhanced his options) and saw the potential at UT, or at least a stepping stone. Regardless, I think he sees it as a better destination job now than he did when he arrived.
 
#34
#34
zjcvols said:
So? He still said Bruce was the best coach in the nation. Is he? No, and it is an absolutely idiotic statement
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I don't see where the OP stated that Pearl was the best coach in college... All I saw was that he merely stated that several of the best coaches in the country had a difficult time advancing past the sweet 16 in their first 4 years of coaching. Try reading before blasting off into ridiculousness, yeah thats a word. :eek:k:
 
#35
#35
BigPapaVol said:
I assure that nobody yet knew Hamilton was going to go so hard after hoops. most coaches in the discussion assumed more Dickey style stupidity.
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i'll give you that.
 
#36
#36
zjcvols said:
Florida, Syracuse, and UConn weren't exactly basketball powers when Boeheim, Calhoun, & Donovan took over. Duke hadn't had any success in a while. Williams did have an excellent job from the start. And the fact Pearl has been outcoached in every single tourney loss he has had hasn't helped either.
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Florida - Went to the Final Four in 1994, hired Donovan in 1996... they weren't that weak, despite having a losing record in Lon Kruger's final year.

Syracuse - Final Four in 1976 and 8 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances, Boeheim hired in 1977 after Roy Danforth was hired away.

UConn - I'll give you UConn...

As far as it goes though, unless you are a 8 seed or worse, most of your losses are going to be attributed to getting outcoached unless you run up on a 1 seed.

I'd say he outcoaches others a lot more than he gets outcoached... it's just magnified in the one and done NCAAT. He won't lose that moniker until he wins a National Title(and continues to do so regularly)... note that this isn't a Tennessee thing, it's an example of how everyone has unrealistic expectations.
 
#37
#37
I don't know if Bruce is the best coach in America right now, but he's certainly the best basketball coach we've ever had at UT. I can't think of any other coach I'd trade him for. It takes more than having the best coach to win a championship, though. If all it took was the best coach, then the team with the best coach, whoever he might be, would always win the national title. Just look to North Carolina to see how even a coach who has won the big one can have a bad year, even when he has a roster replete with all-star recruits. Bruce has set a precedent by winning over 20 games every year in his tenure at UT and the sky's the limit now that he has some of the best talent in the nation coming to Knoxville. He already has one national title under his belt (at Southern Indiana). But, I'm really looking forward to seeing him win his next one.
 
#38
#38
oUTKickedCoverage said:
Florida - Went to the Final Four in 1994, hired Donovan in 1996... they weren't that weak, despite having a losing record in Lon Kruger's final year.

Syracuse - Final Four in 1976 and 8 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances, Boeheim hired in 1977 after Roy Danforth was hired away.

UConn - I'll give you UConn...

As far as it goes though, unless you are a 8 seed or worse, most of your losses are going to be attributed to getting outcoached unless you run up on a 1 seed.

I'd say he outcoaches others a lot more than he gets outcoached... it's just magnified in the one and done NCAAT. He won't lose that moniker until he wins a National Title(and continues to do so regularly)... note that this isn't a Tennessee thing, it's an example of how everyone has unrealistic expectations.
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That's not true. Nobody expects a championship any time soon from Pearl. You won't find even his harshest critics saying that. People want to see continued improvement and losing as a 2 seed before the 2nd weekend is over does not indicate that. Especially losing to Wichita State/Oklahoma State in the first two days.
 
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#40
#40
UTLCA said:
That's not true. Nobody expects a championship any time soon from Pearl. You won't find even his harshest critics saying that. People want to see continued improvement and losing as a 2 seed before the 2nd weekend is over does not indicate that. Especially losing to Wichita State/Oklahoma State in the first two days.
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So earning a 2 seed and winning as many regular season games as he won in his first year does not indicate improvement over the previous year (with Buzz)? :huh:
 
#41
#41
oUTKickedCoverage said:
Florida - Went to the Final Four in 1994, hired Donovan in 1996... they weren't that weak, despite having a losing record in Lon Kruger's final year.

Syracuse - Final Four in 1976 and 8 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances, Boeheim hired in 1977 after Roy Danforth was hired away.

UConn - I'll give you UConn...
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I was thinking that too. Boeheim took over an established Eastern power, and after a few years of ordinary results, started taking them to a higher level. Florida was coming off an off-year, but again, they were an established program. They actually underachieved for many years under Donovan.

Tennessee was an established mediocrity after four years of BuzzBall. Under Pearl, we've been a fixture in the top 25.

Best coach in the country? No, he's done nothing to stake a claim to that title. A darn good coach? Yes.
 
#42
#42
LawVol13 said:
I don't even remember fans saying that much less media.
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I clearly remember analysts and columnists stating the UT job was a career killer. However, I only remember the sleeping giant comments coming about after Pearl's arrival.
 
#43
#43
Sudeepvol said:
So earning a 2 seed and winning as many regular season games as he won in his first year does not indicate improvement over the previous year (with Buzz)? :huh:
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continued improvement :unsure:

...would not be a first round flame out to OK State 3 years later.
 
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#44
#44
UTLCA said:
continued improvement :unsure:
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Well, until he's able to actually keep talent around... the detractors will have (legitimate)reasons to doubt him.

I'm certainly giving him the benefit of the doubt, and really think he's learning on the job when it comes to the mindset of some of the super talents... and whether or not it's worth the risk to take a Ramar Smith.
 
#45
#45
Bballvol said:
I clearly remember analysts and columnists stating the UT job was a career killer. However, I only remember the sleeping giant comments coming about after Pearl's arrival.
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They pulled the sleeping giant crap out when Jerry Green was here too... I don't recall Jerry Green outcoaching anyone. Even during his one win at Rupp, it wasn't like he slowed the game down or ran a zone... Kentucky just couldn't hit the ocean from a rowboat.
 
#47
#47
Sudeepvol said:
Since everyone seems to point to Pearl's lack of success in the tournament in his first four years, I decided to do a little research for early tournament success for some top coaches:

When you combine Boeheim, Calhoun, Roy Williams, Coach K, and Donovan's number of appearances past the sweet 16 in their first four years, you get a grand total of 1.

Let's also remember that some of those coaches took over programs in better shape than UT was when Pearl took over.

This isn't an excuse for Pearl's lack of success in the tournament, rather, it points to the fact that even the best coaches need to time to figure out how to adjust their style for tournament play.
Also, if you look at it closely, Pearl has had regular seasons comparable, and even exceeding, those coaches listed above.

I say lay off the criticism a bit and give Pearl some time. I'm confident he'll turn his tournament woes around.
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Those seem like good points. However, I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of guys who have also had resume's similar to Pearl's during their first few years. (Don't ask me to name any, I'm never been a big basketball guy.) I think Pearl has done well for the program, and we're much improved, but I just think we have to wait until Pearl does much more before he's considered elite.

I'd guess that many of the people on this board that could be considered "anti-pearl" (me included) don't necessarily think he's terrible, they just don't think he's proven to be the deity some people make him out to be.
 
#48
#48
Sudeepvol said:
.... When you combine Boeheim, Calhoun, Roy Williams, Coach K, and Donovan's number of appearances past the sweet 16 in their first four years, you get a grand total of 1.....
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Their 1st 4 years where? Are you comparing their 1st 4 years in coaching with Pearls 1st 4 years at UT? You know that Pearl has been coaching since 1992 don't you?
 
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#49
#49
Smokeyman said:
I don't see where the OP stated that Pearl was the best coach in college... All I saw was that he merely stated that several of the best coaches in the country had a difficult time advancing past the sweet 16 in their first 4 years of coaching. Try reading before blasting off into ridiculousness, yeah thats a word. :eek:k:
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wasn't talking to the op
 
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