Confidence level in the 2016 recruiting class? (merged)

[TGVol]

Who's using them as a measuring stick? You ignorantly claimed that the only way to compete with Bama is to bring in top ten classes every year. I gave a counterpoint that showed you're wrong and overreacting.

It appears to be the only way for Butch based on his record so far - which is why your counterpoint is invalid.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

It appears to be the only way for Butch based on his record so far - which is why your counterpoint is invalid.

You can't be certain that's the case though. His teams have gotten better against Bama every year despite being greatly outgunned each year.

It's not like we're the only team that keeps losing to Bama. Auburn and LSU are consistently in the top 10 and they haven't faired well against Bama over the last 4 years and they're a combined 1-7 against Bama since 2012.

I get that they're a rival for us and all, but being upset about not beating Bama is the norm for every team that isn't coached by Hugh Freeze right now.

 

[TGVol]

I get that they're a rival for us and all, but being upset about not beating Bama is the norm for every team that isn't coached by Hugh Freeze right now.

I'm not even upset about not beating Bama yet - but only as long as Butch keeps recruiting at high rate and keeps the program moving in right direction in terms of catching up on talent. I actually came around to really supporting Butch because of the way he has recruited so far but found it really surprising that recruiting has suddenly dropped off. I did not even follow or realize to what extent it has dropped off until stumbling into this thread - was assuming that now that Butch has started to get few more W's (8-4 not too bad) that the recruiting would go up instead of down. And I do get that we have limited numbers but still, given what Butch has done so far I frankly expected him to make up for lower numbers by getting enough 5 start to at least break into top 10.

 

[overseasorange2]

I'm not even upset about not beating Bama yet - but only as long as Butch keeps recruiting at high rate and keeps the program moving in right direction in terms of catching up on talent. I actually came around to really supporting Butch because of the way he has recruited so far but found it really surprising that recruiting has suddenly dropped off. I did not even follow or realize to what extent it has dropped off until stumbling into this thread - was assuming that now that Butch has started to get few more W's (8-4 not too bad) that the recruiting would go up instead of down. And I do get that we have limited numbers but still, given what Butch has done so far I frankly expected him to make up for lower numbers by getting enough 5 start to at least break into top 10.

I agree...

 

[Bcoope13]

I'm not even upset about not beating Bama yet - but only as long as Butch keeps recruiting at high rate and keeps the program moving in right direction in terms of catching up on talent. I actually came around to really supporting Butch because of the way he has recruited so far but found it really surprising that recruiting has suddenly dropped off. I did not even follow or realize to what extent it has dropped off until stumbling into this thread - was assuming that now that Butch has started to get few more W's (8-4 not too bad) that the recruiting would go up instead of down. And I do get that we have limited numbers but still, given what Butch has done so far I frankly expected him to make up for lower numbers by getting enough 5 start to at least break into top 10.

Based on "average star" (this is for the star gazers) we have the 7th ranked class. The limited numbers drastically effect the overall ranking.

 

[Guyute]

Did it take Saban 6-7 years to build a dynasty at either LSU or Bama? Becasue that's what Butch says it will take him to do it. :crazy:

Out of all of the new coaching hires over the last twenty years, how many have been able to do what Saban has done?

Alabama's success isn't typical. Why is that the expectation for Butch?

 

[TGVol]

Alabama's success isn't typical. Why is that the expectation for Butch?

Because we are historically the second winningest program in the history of the best conference (by far) in college football. Our expectations of all our football coaches should be in line with that so this is nothing personal against Butch.

 

[overseasorange2]

Out of all of the new coaching hires over the last twenty years, how many have been able to do what Saban has done?

Alabama's success isn't typical. Why is that the expectation for Butch?

The last 2 Auburn coaches went to the national championship game their first year. Florida went to the SEC championship this year with a first year coach....just to name a few...

PS. Forgot Spurrier(At Florida) and Meyer..

 

[WallyBalls]

I'm not even upset about not beating Bama yet - but only as long as Butch keeps recruiting at high rate and keeps the program moving in right direction in terms of catching up on talent. I actually came around to really supporting Butch because of the way he has recruited so far but found it really surprising that recruiting has suddenly dropped off. I did not even follow or realize to what extent it has dropped off until stumbling into this thread - was assuming that now that Butch has started to get few more W's (8-4 not too bad) that the recruiting would go up instead of down. And I do get that we have limited numbers but still, given what Butch has done so far I frankly expected him to make up for lower numbers by getting enough 5 start to at least break into top 10.

Why do the rankings matter so much?

I think this staff has proven they can evaluate guys regardless of the stars you seem so concerned with.

 

[butchna]

The last 2 Auburn coaches went to the national championship game their first year. Florida went to the SEC championship this year with a first year coach....just to name a few...

Chizik's second year, and Tuberville left Malzahn plenty of his type of players after a failed first stab at converting to the spread...under Tony Franklin.

 

[TGVol]

Why do the rankings matter so much?

I think this staff has proven they can evaluate guys regardless of the stars you seem so concerned with.

Since they came to UT this staff has only proven they can finish very high in recruiting rankings which got the fan base rightfully excited. However they have NOT proven they can evaluate talent that's not highly ranked - because if that was the case Butch would have beaten a lot more than 1 top 25 team in his entire HC career.

 

[WallyBalls]

So the Cam Suttons(3*), Owen Williams(3*), Chance Halls(3*), Coleman Thomases (3*), Josh Smiths (3*), and Corey Vereens (3*) of the world don't count?

 

[BigZiti09]

So the Cam Suttons(3*), Owen Williams(3*), Chance Halls(3*), Coleman Thomases (3*), Josh Smiths (3*), and Corey Vereens (3*) of the world don't count?

Just to add to what you're saying...

Vonn Pearson was an unknown. Had no offers and no stars. Dropped a 4* juco wr in order to take Vonn who was unrated at the time.

DJ Henderson is a 4* now, #2 Juco CB in the country. When we offered he was unknown. (can go back and check the first pages of his thread)

Dropped Austin Kendall who was a borderline 5* QB for Jarret Guarantano. Now JG is the 5* talent and Kendall is just inside the top 200.

Moseley has panned out pretty well for a 2* kid.

We offered Christmas-Giles when he was a 2*. LSU didn't know that he existed.

Landed Quinten Dormady when he was a 2*.

The list goes on. This guy has zero idea what he is talking about.

 

[Guyute]

The last 2 Auburn coaches went to the national championship game their first year. Florida went to the SEC championship this year with a first year coach....just to name a few...

PS. Forgot Spurrier(At Florida) and Meyer..

Looks like Chizik is gone and Malzahn had a terrible year. Spurrier had how many titles? Auburn brings in comparable talent but can't win like Alabama. Florida had how much talent on its roster when McElwain took over? Did Florida actually WIN an SEC championship?

Saban has had sustained success with yearly top of the heap recruiting classes. Alabama boo$ters pour tons of money into that program and bring in 5 star talent every year.

Flash in the pan success is not what we are talking about when we talk about Saban. If those teams fanbases used the same standard some of our fans use for Butch, no one would have a job.

I would rather watch UT progress into a champion than buy an SEC title and have to start over in a few years when the NCAA caught up with us.

 

[TGVol]

So the Cam Suttons(3*), Owen Williams(3*), Chance Halls(3*), Coleman Thomases (3*), Josh Smiths (3*), and Corey Vereens (3*) of the world don't count?

There are always exceptions to the rule. But the rule is unfortunatelly Saban and his consistency in winning due to all the #1 rankings and 5*s.
By the way Cam Sutton, Corey Vereen, and Josh Smith were all evaluated and heavily recruited by Dooley's staff. Current staff of course should get some credit for keeping them in fold after the coaching change.

 

[WallyBalls]

Just to add to what you're saying...

Vonn Pearson was an unknown. Had no offers and no stars. Dropped a 4* juco wr in order to take Vonn who was unrated at the time.

DJ Henderson is a 4* now, #2 Juco CB in the country. When we offered he was unknown. (can go back and check the first pages of his thread)

Dropped Austin Kendall who was a borderline 5* QB for Jarret Guarantano. Now JG is the 5* talent and Kendall is just inside the top 200.

Moseley has panned out pretty well for a 2* kid.

We offered Christmas-Giles when he was a 2*. LSU didn't know that he existed.

Landed Quinten Dormady when he was a 2*.

The list goes on. This guy has zero idea what he is talking about.

That was the next point I was going to bring up. Thanks for making it.

...although it would appear it has fallen on deaf ears.

 

[TGVol]

Just to add to what you're saying...

Vonn Pearson was an unknown. Had no offers and no stars. Dropped a 4* juco wr in order to take Vonn who was unrated at the time.

DJ Henderson is a 4* now, #2 Juco CB in the country. When we offered he was unknown. (can go back and check the first pages of his thread)

Dropped Austin Kendall who was a borderline 5* QB for Jarret Guarantano. Now JG is the 5* talent and Kendall is just inside the top 200.

Moseley has panned out pretty well for a 2* kid.

We offered Christmas-Giles when he was a 2*. LSU didn't know that he existed.

Landed Quinten Dormady when he was a 2*.

Thank you for making my point! Because what have Von Pearson and Moseley done in games against top competition in their careers? Not much (to be polite and especially to Moseley who has been on the wrong side of way too many "highlights").
By the way, we don't have any idea how Dormady will pan out so why would you even bring him up? If Guarantano is as good as advertised he may be challenging Dobbs for the starting job next year.

 

[overseasorange2]

Looks like Chizik is gone and Malzahn had a terrible year. Spurrier had how many titles? Auburn brings in comparable talent but can't win like Alabama. Florida had how much talent on its roster when McElwain took over? Did Florida actually WIN an SEC championship?

Saban has had sustained success with yearly top of the heap recruiting classes. Alabama boo$ters pour tons of money into that program and bring in 5 star talent every year.

Flash in the pan success is not what we are talking about when we talk about Saban. If those teams fanbases used the same standard some of our fans use for Butch, no one would have a job.

I would rather watch UT progress into a champion than buy an SEC title and have to start over in a few years when the NCAA caught up with us.

Since you ask....Spurrier had one national title at Florida in 1996. However, in his 12 years at Florida the lowest ranking his team had at the end of the season was #13(According to the AP Final Poll). 10 out of 12 years his team ended up in the top 10, half the time in the top 5. I would take that any day.:devilsmoke:

 

[UGADawg4Life]

Looks like Chizik is gone and Malzahn had a terrible year. Spurrier had how many titles? Auburn brings in comparable talent but can't win like Alabama. Florida had how much talent on its roster when McElwain took over? Did Florida actually WIN an SEC championship?

Saban has had sustained success with yearly top of the heap recruiting classes. Alabama boo$ters pour tons of money into that program and bring in 5 star talent every year.

Flash in the pan success is not what we are talking about when we talk about Saban. If those teams fanbases used the same standard some of our fans use for Butch, no one would have a job.

I would rather watch UT progress into a champion than buy an SEC title and have to start over in a few years when the NCAA caught up with us.

Anyone who keeps up with CFB knows that Spurrier was one of the premier coaches in the league. X&0 he was better than Saban, he just didn't put in as many hours. And if AU didn't get caught after the $cam Newton thing, they never will be. AU did buy their NC, no doubt.

 

[BigZiti09]

Thank you for making my point! Because what have Von Pearson and Moseley done in games against top competition in their careers? Not much (to be polite and especially to Moseley who has been on the wrong side of way too many "highlights").
By the way, we don't have any idea how Dormady will pan out so why would you even bring him up? If Guarantano is as good as advertised he may be challenging Dobbs for the starting job next year.

You keep changing your argument which reveals the truth which is that you don't really know what you're talking about.

Do we know what Quinten Dormady will be? No. He's just been here 12 months. But we offered before anyone else including your boy Saban at Bama. This also illustrates another flaw in your argument. We don't know what a lot of guys are going to be before their time at UT is over. 90% of our talent is in our Freshman and Sophomore classes.

Similar situation with Vonn to Dormady and many others we offered early. We offered before anyone else and Vonn has given us two solid years at WR.

Is Moseley great? Not by a long shot, but he's better than his rating. Unfortunately, our roster wasn't in good enough shape to redshirt him and slowly bring him along as would be preferred.

As Butch continues to build this roster(which he has done from scratch), you'll see more and more examples of great recruiting jobs.

I shouldn't have even responded to this because you're obviously either trolling or you can't see through your hatred for Butch Jones to grasp reality.

 

[TGVol]

I shouldn't have even responded to this because ...

However you did respond, didn't you? And of course you did that because you could not accept your ridiculous argument about "Bama beaters" Moseley and Pearson exposed. :cray:
By the way I do support Butch but don't think that means I should kiss his a$$ when he does not do a good job. As a matter of fact I even argued he should be paid more to reward his great recruiting - looks like that may have been premature afterall unless he turns thing around.

 

[WallyBalls]

What in the world...

 

[bignewt]

it is simply ridiculous to complain about a recruiting class before signing day. After that, have at it but I doubt anybody that knows the game will be disappointed with this class.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

The last 2 Auburn coaches went to the national championship game their first year. Florida went to the SEC championship this year with a first year coach....just to name a few...

PS. Forgot Spurrier(At Florida) and Meyer..

The situation that Butch walked into is light years different than what either of those coaches you listed walked into. No disrespect.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Since you ask....Spurrier had one national title at Florida in 1996. However, in his 12 years at Florida the lowest ranking his team had at the end of the season was #13(According to the AP Final Poll). 10 out of 12 years his team ended up in the top 10, half the time in the top 5. I would take that any day.:devilsmoke:

One could make the argument that Spurrier=Richt. Spurrier had crazy good talent at UF for most of his time there yet only won one NC.