Confirmed: Bachmann is either an epic hypocrite or a moron

[MG1968]

in 2000, one of the democrats' campaign strategies was to "take God back". I'll agree that a politician wearing his or her religion on their sleeve can be off-putting, but let's not kid ourselves about the significance of religious voters to either party.

 

[volinbham]

but let's not kid ourselves about the significance of religious voters to either party.

or that piety has to be tied to religion - there are plenty of politicians that are pious WRT any number of special interest issues.

 

[JayVols]

in 2000, one of the democrats' campaign strategies was to "take God back". I'll agree that a politician wearing his or her religion on their sleeve can be off-putting, but let's not kid ourselves about the significance of religious voters to either party.

I don't have a problem with a candidate being religious. I am religious. I have a problem with them reminding me of that they are religious every other breath.
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[KiffinKiller]

I don't have a problem with a candidate being religious. I am religious. I have a problem with them reminding me of that they are religious every other breath.
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I don't have a problem with religion. I just have a problem with it being the basis for a politicians campaign. Argue the issues relevant today and I don't have a problem with you - whatever party/policy you represent.

 

[JayVols]

I don't have a problem with religion. I just have a problem with it being the basis for a politicians campaign. Argue the issues relevant today and I don't have a problem with you - whatever party/policy you represent.

Yep.
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[lawgator1]

I don't have a problem with religion. I just have a problem with it being the basis for a politicians campaign. Argue the issues relevant today and I don't have a problem with you - whatever party/policy you represent.

1) I think that Bachmann is in fact very religious.

2) I think Bachmann is aware that the media are looking for her to make that a big part of her campaign and to jump on it when she does bring it up.

3) I think Bachmann will be very careful to avoid bringing it up and will deflect questions from voters on it with something predetermined by her and her staff, like "I think we need to return to the values that made this country great." Value will be code for Christianity.

4) Inevitably it will come up and she won't exactly run away form it, but she won't publicly embrace it, either. But make no mistake. A Bachmann presidency would be heavily influenced by Christian fundamentalist/evangelical type priorities.


As an example of the above, yesterday, when asked the flake question i believe it was, she talked about how serious a candidate she is. She mentioned having gotten her master's in tax or law degree from William & Mary.

What she didn't mention -- and I believe its intentional -- is that she went to Oral Roberts U.

She knows that she needs to get away from the image of being the Christian candidate. She knows people are suspicious of her and her TP roots on that, and there's going to be a ton of stuff out there for opposition research to paint her as such.

What you are seeing now is a reformation of her, away from the rhetoric of a religious or hard right "flake," and something a lot more centrist. Witness her comments yesterday somewhat backing off of the Paul Ryan plan.

 

[KiffinKiller]

1) I think that Bachmann is in fact very religious.

2) I think Bachmann is aware that the media are looking for her to make that a big part of her campaign and to jump on it when she does bring it up.

3) I think Bachmann will be very careful to avoid bringing it up and will deflect questions from voters on it with something predetermined by her and her staff, like "I think we need to return to the values that made this country great." Value will be code for Christianity.

4) Inevitably it will come up and she won't exactly run away form it, but she won't publicly embrace it, either. But make no mistake. A Bachmann presidency would be heavily influenced by Christian fundamentalist/evangelical type priorities.


As an example of the above, yesterday, when asked the flake question i believe it was, she talked about how serious a candidate she is. She mentioned having gotten her master's in tax or law degree from William & Mary.

What she didn't mention -- and I believe its intentional -- is that she went to Oral Roberts U.

She knows that she needs to get away from the image of being the Christian candidate. She knows people are suspicious of her and her TP roots on that, and there's going to be a ton of stuff out there for opposition research to paint her as such.

What you are seeing now is a reformation of her, away from the rhetoric of a religious or hard right "flake," and something a lot more centrist. Witness her comments yesterday somewhat backing off of the Paul Ryan plan.

I still wouldn't vote for her because she doesn't sit on motorcycles.

 

[gsvol]

I'll vote 'moron.'

Could Waterloo be her Waterloo??

Michele Bachmann announced her presidential campaign
in Waterloo, Iowa, (her original home) and promised
to mimic the spirit of Waterloo's own John Wayne.

The only problem is Waterloo's John Wayne was not
the movie star, but rather John Wayne Gacy, the
serial killer.

She told Fox News: "Well what I want them to know
is just like, John Wayne was from Waterloo, Iowa.
That's the kind of spirit that I have, too."

John Wayne, the movie legend, is from Iowa only
not from Waterloo but from Winterset, which is a
nearly three hour drive away from Waterloo.

Gacy, though, had his first criminal conviction, for
an attempted homosexual assault in Waterloo, and
spent 18 months in prison.

In 1980 he was convicted on 33 counts of murder
in Illinois, and was executed in 1994.

That by itself though, wouldn't prevent her from
becoming president if you consider the number of
gaffes by Obama and if she were given a free pass
the way the media treated Obama.

Remember early in his campaign when he talked about
a tornado killing tens of thousands in in a small town
in Kansas that only had a population of 1,200.

Same sort of math he used in his trillion dollar
stimulus program and the fourteen trillion dollar
national debt must totally boggle his pea picking
brain.

He's probably shooting for a quadrillion dollar deficit.

No wonder he received zero votes for the last budget
he sent to congrass.

That's bad when not even one democrat will vote
for his insanity.

You would think he would get a clue sometime.

 

[MG1968]

you know gs, people don't like it when you post their articles and don't provide proper attribution

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

VOLatile, you know that I'm a religious person, so I'm not saying this out of disdain for religion.

I am VERY wary of individuals that constantly want to remind everyone just how religious they are. In my experiences, these people are disingenuous or want something- if a politician they just want a vote. If one is truly religious, it will show in how they live their life. No need to constantly comment on the depths of their faith.
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Are you also VERY wary of those politicians who pander to labor, minorities, seniors, young babies, and Joe the plumber? Do you really find them to be more genuine? They are all politicians and, for the most part, doing what they believe they need to do to get elected.

In reference to your above statement, I have to disagree. I have some very good friends who are atheists, and would challenge anyone to be able to define them as such based on "how they live their lives." They are extremely kind, generous, considerate and perhaps any other adjective you may "look for" to determine that someone is "truly religious" or not. The same can be said for many of the atheists and/or agnostics who post in VN.

 

[KiffinKiller]

Are you also VERY wary of those politicians who pander to labor, minorities, seniors, young babies, and Joe the plumber? Do you really find them to be more genuine? They are all politicians and, for the most part, doing what they believe they need to do to get elected.

In reference to your above statement, I have to disagree. I have some very good friends who are atheists, and would challenge anyone to be able to define them as such based on "how they live their lives." They are extremely kind, generous, considerate and perhaps any other adjective you may "look for" to determine that someone is "truly religious" or not. The same can be said for many of the atheists and/or agnostics who post in VN.

I think you missed the point - he meant don't push it on people.

 

[JayVols]

Are you also VERY wary of those politicians who pander to labor, minorities, seniors, young babies, and Joe the plumber? Do you really find them to be more genuine? They are all politicians and, for the most part, doing what they believe they need to do to get elected.

In reference to your above statement, I have to disagree. I have some very good friends who are atheists, and would challenge anyone to be able to define them as such based on "how they live their lives." They are extremely kind, generous, considerate and perhaps any other adjective you may "look for" to determine that someone is "truly religious" or not. The same can be said for many of the atheists and/or agnostics who post in VN.

Do your athiest friends regularly attend church in addition to their other fine attributes?

So one must constantly remind the world that they are religious in order to be religious in your mind?

I do agree that politicians will do or say anything to get elected.
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[JayVols]

I think you missed the point - he meant don't push it on people.

Thank you.
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[IBlvNTmWrk]

I think you missed the point - he meant don't push it on people.

Unlike some (cough, LG, cough) I don't make it a practice of guessing what posters "mean", but rather focus on what they actually say. In this case he said

If one is truly religious, it will show in how they live their life.
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and I disagreed. Perhaps my comment does not address what he meant, but as I said in my original post I disagree with what was posted. To state that religious individuals can be identified by "how they live their lives" implies (perhaps unintentionally) that they live a more moral life than others. That was my point which you apparently missed.

Do your athiest friends regularly attend church in addition to their other fine attributes?

So one must constantly remind the world that they are religious in order to be religious in your mind?

I do agree that politicians will do or say anything to get elected.
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In response to your first question above, no... they do not. And yet I also have many religious friends who don't attend regularly either. Is this really what you meant by "how they lives their lives" as it would seem to be more of "where" they spend their time.

In response to your second question... did I say anything of the sort?

 

[JayVols]

Unlike some (cough, LG, cough) I don't make it a practice of guessing what posters "mean", but rather focus on what they actually say. In this case he said

and I disagreed. Perhaps my comment does not address what he meant, but as I said in my original post I disagree with what was posted. To state that religious individuals can be identified by "how they live their lives" implies (perhaps unintentionally) that they live a more moral life than others. That was my point which you apparently missed.



In response to your first question above, no... they do not. And yet I also have many religious friends who don't attend regularly either. Is this really what you meant by "how they lives their lives" as it would seem to be more of "where" they spend their time.

In response to your second question... did I say anything of the sort?

You can be religious anywhere you are.

That was my original point. It was what was being discussed when I made the statement to which you disagreed.
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[KiffinKiller]

VOLatile, you know that I'm a religious person, so I'm not saying this out of disdain for religion.

I am VERY wary of individuals that constantly want to remind everyone just how religious they are. In my experiences, these people are disingenuous or want something- if a politician they just want a vote. If one is truly religious, it will show in how they live their life. No need to constantly comment on the depths of their faith.
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This was his point.

 

[JayVols]

This was his point.

Let it go, man. Glad at least 1 person got the point.
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[IBlvNTmWrk]

This was his point.

Let it go, man. Glad at least 1 person got the point.
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Didn't miss that point, and actually agree with it. But it is not related to my point which had to do with the sentence before that one... not sure how I could have been more clear with what I posted?

 

[JayVols]

Didn't miss that point, and actually agree with it. But it is not related to my point which had to do with the sentence before that one... not sure how I could have been more clear with what I posted?

So you are a pick a single sentence out of several posts in an ongoing discussion kind of guy. That's cool, and it's cool if you disagree with what I posted. I will stand by my words though.

A person's actions tell more about a person than their words.
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[IBlvNTmWrk]

So you are a pick a single sentence out of several posts in an ongoing discussion kind of guy. That's cool, and it's cool if you disagree with what I posted. I will stand by my words though.

A person's actions tell more about a person than their words.
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Jay, you seem like a decent fellow, so I can only surmise you've never had anyone disagree with you before on a message board.

For the record, my original post addressed both your comment about pandering by politicians as well as your comment regarding how a religious person lives their life... so I didn't just pick out a single sentence, and I believe both were relevant to the thread conversation that was occurring. Further, I have not posted anything that might reflect negatively or perhaps insult you in anyway, and have referenced specific comments/quotes in my posts to be as explicit as possible. The fact is that yes... I disagreed with your comment. I'm sorry if that apparently bothers you as much as it seems to.

In contrast, you have made the above comment which is somewhat derogatory towards me, as well as the post below of which I addressed the first question and took offense to the second as I never said or implied anything similar to what you are implying.

Do your athiest friends regularly attend church in addition to their other fine attributes?

So one must constantly remind the world that they are religious in order to be religious in your mind?
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You are now saying that you "stand by your words". That "A person's actions tell more about a person than their words." I happen to agree with this statement, but those were not your words. Your statement, that I disagreed with, was the following and I explained why I disagreed with it.

If one is truly religious, it will show in how they live their life.
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Perhaps, to avoid any further confusion, you could help me understand what it is you see in a religious person that you don't see in a non-religious person that helps you distinguish the two... other than, of course, that one might spend more time in church which as I mentioned previously is not "how one lives" but rather where they spend their time.

 

[JayVols]

I really never meant to take a shot at you. I regret you took it that way, but I see why you did. I have never had a problem with someone disagreeing with me. I try to respect the thoughts and opinions of others. After all, they are opinions (mine included) not necessarily facts.

I think I know what you are getting at with your question. I, in no way, meant to imply that only religious people do good things, ie help their fellow man. As a matter of fact, I know many nonreligious individuals whose actions are more 'religious appearing' than professed believers. Words without actions are useless. Religious individuals actions tend to be affiliated with an established religious, not necessarily denominational, affiliation while nonreligious individuals tend to work within secular charitable institutions. I also wouldn't expect to see nonreligious people attend a church on a regular basis. I am not implying that attendance is a requirement to be religious or that all who attend are better than anyone who doesn't. It is simply something that most would identify as being associated with a believer. There are good and bad religious people. They are not perfect. No one is. Anyone can put on the appearance of being religious. That doesnt make them that way. I could go on, but I hope this clears up what I was meaning.
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[VOLatile]

Tom Petty wants her to stop using "American Girl" as her campaign song.
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[VolsSportsFan]

+ 1.

There are plenty of morons on the left. Where do we begin?
As to Bachmann, I think what irks me so much is that there is this borderline pride these days on the right about being ignorant, uneducated. My gosh, Palin has almost made it a trademark to express disdain for book learnin'.

And what is shocking is that so many seem ready to rally around people that promote their lack of understanding what the f is going on.

Most of us are waiting on you to do just that.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

I would prefer to see them both fall into a bottomless mudpit and take Obama with them.

 

[VOLatile]

Bachmann's husband is a full blown douche nozzle.