Could be the biggest underachieving team in UT history

[NEO]

I think Coach Orgeron is average or below average and he raised the natty trophy

Football has been around a little over 100 years.

About 60 guys have won championships.

Law of averages places him in a very small group.

I am not saying he is bear Bryant but he has a ring.

 

[cncchris33]

Stoops won a natty.

He also doesnt have a 24-24 bowl record.

You hoist the trophy you are automatically no longer average.

Okay, Lincoln Riley, then. Or Ryan Day. Or Chris Petersen.

You can't just keep moving the goalposts to tailor-fit your narrative.

Like I said, Barnes doesn't have a great postseason record. I'm not arguing otherwise. You keep pressing this issue as if I'm arguing otherwise. My only contention is the importance of the regular season. You seem very flippant towards its relevance. I don't suppose I can change your mind on that, and you aren't going to change my mind in that regard.

 

[golfballs]

Mods can we now move this thread to the football forum. TIA

 

[NEO]

Okay, Lincoln Riley, then. Or Ryan Day. Or Chris Petersen.

You can't just keep moving the goalposts to tailor-fit your narrative.

Like I said, Barnes doesn't have a great postseason record. I'm not arguing otherwise. You keep pressing this issue as if I'm arguing otherwise. My only contention is the importance of the regular season. You seem very flippant towards its relevance. I don't suppose I can change your mind on that, and you aren't going to change my mind in that regard.

What have I moved the goal post on?

I said 6.5 which is basically the average of his regular season record and post season record combined.

I agree I place little on the regular season for NCAAM. Now NCAAF that is different. Every game matters.

Anyways, I clearly ruffled feathers here and I am beating a dead horse at this point.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

if he really was an “ elite” coach as some want to call him, he would have a lot more championships, whether it be conference, tournament , or NCAA. That’s what separates the elite from the average

I’m curious how many proud you can find of someone calling him an elite coach? You use the word “some” which is implying multiple posters, curious to see these.

 

[VolGee4]

Duke had 4 total final 4s and zero national championships before coach k.

A very similar all time record to ours.

Facts guys.

You wouldn’t know what a fact was if it hit you in the face.

 

[cncchris33]

What have I moved the goal post on?

I said 6.5 which is basically the average of his regular season record and post season record combined.

I agree I place little on the regular season for NCAAM. Now NCAAF that is different. Every game matters.

Anyways, I clearly ruffled feathers here and I am beating a dead horse at this point.

Opposite opinions will generally ruffle feathers. Mine are not ruffled because your opinion isn’t revolutionary within this forum. Anti-Barnes champions have been around for 6 years, now. I’m used to it. No one has convinced me to appreciate him any less. I recognize his shortcomings and call them out when necessary. I just don’t go looking for reasons to dislike the guy. And that isn’t to suggest that you do. Many others who wander into the basketball forum, however, come here with that sole intent.

Our differences (yours and mine) largely center around our individual viewpoint on the importance on the regular season. I just don’t subscribe to the belief that one, two, or three weekends in March that largely depend on luck (primarily), good fortune, and good health as much as talent and coaching, completely erase the three and a half month journey it took to make it there. They both matter. Rick Barnes, in comparison to the great coaches in his profession, has struggled to consistently match their greatness in the postseason. I’ve never argued otherwise.

I’ve stated my case and acknowledged yours. We’re just likely going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[TennesseeFan07]

I thought that that EE team overachieved a bit. The 31-5 team that was bounced by Louisville by 19 in the Sweet 16 is what I consider to be his most underachieving, or at least most disappointing, team.

This. Followed closely by his last team, but there was some crazy circumstances around that.

 

[TennesseeFan07]

Plavsic probably more so than Pember who is a local guy.

That would be Plavsic's fourth school. Not sure I see it happening.

 

[NEO]

Opposite opinions will generally ruffle feathers. Mine are not ruffled because your opinion isn’t revolutionary within this forum. Anti-Barnes champions have been around for 6 years, now. I’m used to it. No one has convinced me to appreciate him any less. I recognize his shortcomings and call them out when necessary. I just don’t go looking for reasons to dislike the guy. And that isn’t to suggest that you do. Many others who wander into the basketball forum, however, come here with that sole intent.

Our differences (yours and mine) largely center around our individual viewpoint on the importance on the regular season. I just don’t subscribe to the belief that one, two, or three weekends in March that largely depend on luck (primarily), good fortune, and good health as much as talent and coaching, completely erase the three and a half month journey it took to make it there. They both matter. Rick Barnes, in comparison to the great coaches in his profession, has struggled to consistently match their greatness in the postseason. I’ve never argued otherwise.

I’ve stated my case and acknowledged yours. We’re just likely going to have to agree to disagree.

I agree with alot of this.

 

[cncchris33]

That would be Plavsic's fourth school. Not sure I see it happening.

3rd l, I believe. He was never enrolled at Cleveland State. Decommitted from them and followed Drazen Zlovaric to Arizona State.

1. Arizona State
2. Tennessee
3. Any potential other school

 

[TennesseeFan07]

3rd l, I believe. He was never enrolled at Cleveland State. Recommitted from them and followed Drazen Zlovaric to Arizona State.

1. Arizona State
2. Tennessee
3. Any potential other school

Fair point. I still think he stays, which would be fine with me, if Tennessee already didn't have another project center.

 

[NEO]

You wouldn’t know what a fact was if it hit you in the face.

There is a saying about people in glass houses.....

Anyways, I am gonna bail out of this thread and sub forum for a while so no worries.

I would add no positivity to the forum in my opinion and this is one reason I have mainly stayed away.

Have a good one.

 

[cncchris33]

Fair point. I still think he stays, which would be fine with me, if Tennessee already didn't have another project center.

I think his decision, if one exists, largely will depend on the passing of the rule by the NCAA allowing for a one-time free transfer without sitting out, AND also how that affects players who have already transferred once.

Because he has already used his redshirt season at ASU, I don’t see him transferring if it requires him to forfeit another year of eligibility. If he gets a free pass, I think he will take a look at it. Doesn’t mean he will act on it, but I think he owes it to himself to at least check around.

 

[VolMarine1371]

I think it’s up for debate. I think the reality is this team was overrated from before the season even started. Media picked UT to win SEC. They flat got it wrong. We’re not as talented as they made everyone believe we were. We have no size(no front court). Vescovi can’t cover anyone. And our offense is horrific. Outside of that, we’re not bad.

Media get it wrong a lot. Remember when UT was picked by the “experts/media” to finish 13th in the SEC and they finished regular season Co-Champs.

 

[CAVPUT]

Based on our talent and with a NCAA early tourney exit no doubt.

At least we excel at something. Top underachiever for 2021....UT is #1? Such a Tennessee turn to the season.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

That would be Plavsic's fourth school. Not sure I see it happening.

3rd, he never went to Cleveland State or where it was he originally committed to.

 

[VolGee4]

There is a saying about people in glass houses.....

Anyways, I am gonna bail out of this thread and sub forum for a while so no worries.

I would add no positivity to the forum in my opinion and this is one reason I have mainly stayed away.

Have a good one.

I understand what the facts are, and I don't believe I have ever stated that Rick Barnes is "elite." I also don't agree that he is average. The problem I have is that people want to come on here and throw around opinions about things without doing the research. Just be informed. Just within the last 2 days, Barnes' February and March records have been posted without comparison, the Durant Texas team's failures, and someone said that this year's Texas team is winning with less talent than us. Those were all statements made without doing a lick of research to support said statement. Just don't use your feelings; do the work to see if those statements do have some support.

My business deals with facts, and I try to do as much research on topics before I start debating the topic. No hard feelings on my end, but it drives me crazy when people just throw around opinions with baseless support.

 

[NEO]

I understand what the facts are, and I don't believe I have ever stated that Rick Barnes is "elite." I also don't agree that he is average. The problem I have is that people want to come on here and throw around opinions about things without doing the research. Just be informed. Just within the last 2 days, Barnes' February and March records have been posted without comparison, the Durant Texas team's failures, and someone said that this year's Texas team is winning with less talent than us. Those were all statements made without doing a lick of research to support said statement. Just don't use your feelings; do the work to see if those statements do have some support.

My business deals with facts, and I try to do as much research on topics before I start debating the topic. No hard feelings on my end, but it drives me crazy when people just throw around opinions with baseless support.

Duke had 4 final 4s and zero NC before coach k. This is the statement I made that you stated was incorrect.

If you deal in facts you wouldn't have debated it as that's a fact.

Sorry but I was cordial here to everyone and simply named facts. You are losing the argument so you make it personal.

24-24 in the tourney is a fact. Him having a .500 record in the tourney is a fact.

Mathematically any statistician would state .500 is average on a quantitative scale.

Just because you say you deal with facts doesnt make it factual.

He is not even 1 game over .500 in the tourney when the chips are on the line and its win or go home.

I will concede that he is a good coach by the fact he has qualified his teams to be in the tourney so many years but good is as high as it gets. I stand by my opinion of 6.5

Anyways, this debate is boring now. I am moving on.

 

[SGMVols]

Dismissing four F4s as nothing is kind of dumb.

 

[Vol49er]

Duke had 4 final 4s and zero NC before coach k. This is the statement I made that you stated was incorrect.

If you deal in facts you wouldn't have debated it as that's a fact.

Sorry but I was cordial here to everyone and simply named facts. You are losing the argument so you make it personal.

24-24 in the tourney is a fact. Him having a .500 record in the tourney is a fact.

Mathematically any statistician would state .500 is average on a quantitative scale.

Just because you say you deal with facts doesnt make it factual.

He is not even 1 game over .500 in the tourney when the chips are on the line and its win or go home.

I will concede that he is a good coach by the fact he has qualified his teams to be in the tourney so many years but good is as high as it gets. I stand by my opinion of 6.5

Anyways, this debate is boring now. I am moving on.

To be fair I dont think anybody is arguing he is a great tourney coach (though maybe, Ive not read everything). I sorta dispute the idea that coaches suddenly get better or worse at coaching at March, but he has undeniably not had consistently great results in the tourney in his career. I just think others, myself included, do not judge him purely on that. As @cncchris33 said above, in a post you said you largely agreed with, why just judge a coach on a singular single elimination tourney? All of your reasoning relies purely on that, ignoring the larger sample of the regular season
And yes, Coach K is better than Coach Barnes. He's better than every one this side of John Wooden arguably

 

[NEO]

To be fair I dont think anybody is arguing he is a great tourney coach (though maybe, Ive not read everything). I sorta dispute the idea that coaches suddenly get better or worse at coaching at March, but he has undeniably not had consistently great results in the tourney in his career. I just think others, myself included, do not judge him purely on that. As @cncchris33 said above, in a post you said you largely agreed with, why just judge a coach on a singular single elimination tourney? All of your reasoning relies purely on that, ignoring the larger sample of the regular season
And yes, Coach K is better than Coach Barnes. He's better than every one this side of John Wooden arguably

There are people who are great when there is really nothing on the line. There are people who are just ice cold in the veins when things are on the line.

The regular season in NCAAM doesnt matter as a whole, in the big picture, per game as much as the tourney does unless it's to decide the conference champ during the last few games.

Clearly the regular season matters but it matters for seeding. Everything is geared towards conference seeding and then tourney seeding.

This is an opinion of mine.

I can not debate it as fact, only how I view things. I am just not impressed with him.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

There are people who are great when there is really nothing on the line. There are people who are just ice cold in the veins when things are on the line.

The regular season in NCAAM doesnt matter as a whole, in the big picture, per game as much as the tourney does unless it's to decide the conference champ during the last few games.

Clearly the regular season matters but it matters for seeding. Everything is geared towards conference seeding and then tourney seeding.

This is an opinion of mine.

I can not debate it as fact, only how I view things. I am just not impressed with him.

What coach is going to impress you then?

 

[Vol49er]

There are people who are great when there is really nothing on the line. There are people who are just ice cold in the veins when things are on the line.

The regular season in NCAAM doesnt matter as a whole, in the big picture, per game as much as the tourney does unless it's to decide the conference champ during the last few games.

Clearly the regular season matters but it matters for seeding. Everything is geared towards conference seeding and then tourney seeding.

This is an opinion of mine.

I can not debate it as fact, only how I view things. I am just not impressed with him.

Ok, well if that is all that is important to you then I understand the frustration and dissatisfaction. I personally do value the regular season success so I am not as dissatisfied (though I of course would love more post-season success just like everybody else)

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Half of the NCAAT field goes 0-1 and those teams are below average. The teams that start out 1-0 are above average. Half of the 1-0 teams are in the 50th-75th percentile.