Could be the biggest underachieving team in UT history

[cardvolfan]

Yeah that wasn’t a good analogy at all.

.285 for a career isn’t bad by any means

Does anyone know what Babe Ruth’s average was for his career? There are so many variables in each and every sport, and with each and every college program. This was the year of variables, so people getting all shook up over Barnes’ coaching should just chill. Either support the Vols, or don’t. Sometimes it’s on the coaches, and sometimes it’s on the players. This constant criticism and “garbage” talk about players and coaches has gotten way out of hand.

 

[cardvolfan]

So, I just did the research on our favorite comparison, Bruce Pearl, since he's been at Auburn:

Nov.-Jan.- 85-40= 68%
Feb.-March- 40-38= 51%

If you take out his first two years:

Nov.-Jan.- 66-18= 78.5%
Feb.-March- 33-20= 62.2%

Comparison with numbers in previous post:
Total
Nov.-Feb.: Barnes (68.9%) v. Pearl (68%)
Feb.-March: Barnes (53.5%) v. Pearl (51%)

After first 2 years
Nov.-Feb.: Barnes (77.6%) v. Pearl (78.5%)
Feb.-March: Barnes (62.5%) v. Pearl (62.2%)

Just February (all years)
Barnes (52.2%) v. Pearl (45.8%)

Just March (all years)
Barnes (58.3%) v. Pearl (70%)* Pearl went 11-1 in March when they went to the FF. If you take it out, Pearl is 38.8% in March.

It is uncanny how close some of these numbers are.

Edit: This did not include this year, so however it ends from here, Barnes' numbers will get better considering that Pearl is 11-12.

That’s really good. Thanks for putting that together. I suspect in competitive conferences, 90% or more of these coaches would have similar numbers. Izzo loses in Feb/March. Coach K loses in March with superior talent. Calipari has lost in Feb/March. The list goes on and on. These so-called Tennessee fans can’t see, or won’t see, what is the general rule of thumb for all the major players, yet they will gladly criticize their own program over and over again.

 

[cncchris33]

So, I just did the research on our favorite comparison, Bruce Pearl, since he's been at Auburn:

Nov.-Jan.- 85-40= 68%
Feb.-March- 40-38= 51%

If you take out his first two years:

Nov.-Jan.- 66-18= 78.5%
Feb.-March- 33-20= 62.2%

Comparison with numbers in previous post:
Total
Nov.-Feb.: Barnes (68.9%) v. Pearl (68%)
Feb.-March: Barnes (53.5%) v. Pearl (51%)

After first 2 years
Nov.-Feb.: Barnes (77.6%) v. Pearl (78.5%)
Feb.-March: Barnes (62.5%) v. Pearl (62.2%)

Just February (all years)
Barnes (52.2%) v. Pearl (45.8%)

Just March (all years)
Barnes (58.3%) v. Pearl (70%)* Pearl went 11-1 in March when they went to the FF. If you take it out, Pearl is 38.8% in March.

It is uncanny how close some of these numbers are.

Edit: This did not include this year, so however it ends from here, Barnes' numbers will get better considering that Pearl is 11-12.

Despite you proving the point we have both been trying to make, clearly, this is where the conversation will detour to how many F4s in the last six years (7 years by Jeff’s math), or some other snipe hunt.

You know, the regular season only matters when it supports my argument, then the postseason matters when it supports my argument...seesaw, seesaw.

 

[cardvolfan]

Despite you proving the point we have both been trying to make, clearly, this is where the conversation will detour to how many F4s in the last six years (7 years by Jeff’s math), or some other snipe hunt.

You know, the regular season only matters when it supports my argument, then the postseason matters when it supports my argument...seesaw, seesaw.

I wonder that if these posters were Gonzaga fans, what they might say about Mark Few. Tremendous program, great development.....all the boxes are checked. Yet, they would be crucifying the guy.

 

[cncchris33]

I wonder that if these posters were Gonzaga fans, what they might say about Mark Few. Tremendous program, great development.....all the boxes are checked. Yet, they would be crucifying the guy.

Sure they would. 1F4 and 3 E8s in 21 years. He’d be a victim of his own success.

 

[Chemvol]

Bruce Pearl squad that made it to final 8 should have been in final 4 and could have won it all. They were that good. That was an underachievement.

I thought that that EE team overachieved a bit. The 31-5 team that was bounced by Louisville by 19 in the Sweet 16 is what I consider to be his most underachieving, or at least most disappointing, team.

That team was playing really good ball at the right time. We were that close. IIRC, J. P. Prince's length was giving his man fits, and it was bothering Michigan State's offense. Prince picked up two quick fouls midway or so through the second half and had to sit for a while. The game turned back in the Spartans' favor when he went out.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

That team was playing really good ball at the right time. We were that close. IIRC, J. P. Prince's length was giving his man fits, and it was bothering Michigan State's offense. Prince picked up two quick fouls midway or so through the second half and had to sit for a while. The game turned back in the Spartans' favor when he went out.

This is the reason why I still dislike Draymond Green

 

[The Dog]

This is the reason why I still dislike Draymond Green

Well, there is a lot to not like about Green, but I agree, that's reason number one

 

[BreatheUT]

Just my 2 cents - I still enjoy watching this team - at least most of the time - but I'm in the overrated camp, and it makes it a little easier to stomach some of what we've seen. Pons is an absolute freak of nature athletically, but I don't think the bball light is ever going to come on. It is bewildering how unaware or lost he frequently is. I'm a big fan of Fulky, but he was an overachiever last year - he has some great "moments" like the SC game (he ran the floor awesome, great cuts, great passes) - but I've never seen him as the big man a great team could be built around. (It would be awesome to seem him paired with a great big.) The rest of the team is more than enough to have a great team without having to have any one or two players be near perfect every night - lots of weapons (though a true pg would be nice). But we do not have the front court we need and it is highly doubtful we will next year either. So I don't view this as one of the great underachieving teams in UT history by a long shot.

Solid. Very solid!

 

[volfan2024]

In no way am I trying to dog these guys. I know most are very young. I’m just disappointed because one game they look like NBA first round draft picks next game they don’t show up. Either way I’m all Vol!

 

[1985Vols]

Barnes has spent his career in 3 conferences with 4 blue bloods. Any conference championships are huge successes.

if he really was an “ elite” coach as some want to call him, he would have a lot more championships, whether it be conference, tournament , or NCAA. That’s what separates the elite from the average

 

[NEO]

Despite you proving the point we have both been trying to make, clearly, this is where the conversation will detour to how many F4s in the last six years (7 years by Jeff’s math), or some other snipe hunt.

You know, the regular season only matters when it supports my argument, then the postseason matters when it supports my argument...seesaw, seesaw.

The regular season never matters other than bragging rights of beating your rival and seeding placement.

The fact is barnes has the number 1 seed in the regular season and blew it in the tourney.

He is the king of non consequential games.

He had Durant and couldn't even win the tourney. If you can't win the tourney with Durant you arent ever winning it.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

The regular season never matters other than bragging rights of beating your rival and seeding placement.

The fact is barnes has the number 1 seed in the regular season and blew it in the tourney.

He is the king of non consequential games.

He had Durant and couldn't even win the tourney. If you can't win the tourney with Durant you arent ever winning it.

“couldn’t even win the tourney” (with a teenager)

 

[Vol49er]

The regular season never matters other than bragging rights of beating your rival and seeding placement.

The fact is barnes has the number 1 seed in the regular season and blew it in the tourney.

He is the king of non consequential games.

He had Durant and couldn't even win the tourney. If you can't win the tourney with Durant you arent ever winning it.

If you knew anything at all about that team you'd realize how asinine a comment this is. Just admit you dont really follow college basketball and just want to complain about something

 

[VolGee4]

The regular season never matters other than bragging rights of beating your rival and seeding placement.

The fact is barnes has the number 1 seed in the regular season and blew it in the tourney.

He is the king of non consequential games.

He had Durant and couldn't even win the tourney. If you can't win the tourney with Durant you arent ever winning it.

Lol. I would say to go research it, but you won’t and don’t care.

Texas lost to Kansas in OT that year in the championship game. Kansas was 33-5. Kansas had 6 NBA draft picks. 4 players were top 25 recruits.

Texas had 4 eventual NBA draft picks- all freshmen that year. Only Durant was one and done. 2 top 25 recruits. Texas’ top 7 players were freshmen and sophomores with 5 being freshmen. Durant was the first freshman to ever win Big 12 player of the year.

But, Barnes sucks.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

The regular season never matters other than bragging rights of beating your rival and seeding placement.

The fact is barnes has the number 1 seed in the regular season and blew it in the tourney.

He is the king of non consequential games.

He had Durant and couldn't even win the tourney. If you can't win the tourney with Durant you arent ever winning it.

Lmao, there’s been many college coaches with terrific players that’s never won the Big Dance.

This is just another made up reason to slam Barnes.

 

[cncchris33]

The regular season never matters other than bragging rights of beating your rival and seeding placement.

The fact is barnes has the number 1 seed in the regular season and blew it in the tourney.

He is the king of non consequential games.

He had Durant and couldn't even win the tourney. If you can't win the tourney with Durant you arent ever winning it.

The regular season absolutely matters. It might not matter to you, but you don't speak for the basketball universe.

Most people complained, and still hold it against him to this day, that Cuonzo barely snuck into the NCAAT with JRich, Stokes, and McRae, despite making the S16. And that is justifiable, IMO. No one excused the disaster of a regular season because of the postseason success and none of the anti-Barnes crowd are going to excuse him from some of the inexplicable losses this year if this team makes the S16, or better. It will be, "How did this same team get embarrassed by an awful UK team at home!?!?", just like eight years ago when it was, "How did Zo and co. barely sneak into the NCAAT with those players and level of experience?".

 

[NEO]

If you knew anything at all about that team you'd realize how asinine a comment this is. Just admit you dont really follow college basketball and just want to complain about something

I have followed basketball for decades.

I just dont come in here often because if I want to visit fantasyland I will go to disney.

 

[NEO]

The regular season absolutely matters. It might not matter to you, but you don't speak for the basketball universe.

Most people complained, and still hold it against him to this day, that Cuonzo barely snuck into the NCAAT with JRich, Stokes, and McRae, despite making the S16. And that is justifiable, IMO. No one excused the disaster of a regular season because of the postseason success and none of the anti-Barnes crowd are going to excuse him from some of the inexplicable losses this year if this team makes the S16, or better. It will be, "How did this same team get embarrassed by an awful UK team at home!?!?", just like eight years ago when it was, "How did Zo and co. barely sneak into the NCAAT with those players and level of experience?".

Barnes is 24-24 in the tourney with one final four.

Coach K is 97-30 in the tourney and 12 final fours.

If coach k is considered great with 12 final fours how can barnes be anything other than average with 1 final 4 and a 24-24 record in the tourney?

24-24 is literally .500 and as average as it gets.

 

[cncchris33]

Barnes is 24-24 in the tourney with one final four.

Coach K is 97-30 in the tourney and 12 final fours.

If coach k is considered great with 12 final fours how can barnes be anything other than average with 1 final 4 and a 24-24 record in the tourney?

24-24 is literally .500 and as average as it gets.

K is the greatest coach of his generation. Calling Barnes average in comparison is like saying Bob Stoops was an average coach because Nick Saban has 7 titles.

Few, and certainly not me, will argue that Barnes has killed it in the postseason and that he is anything comparable to Coach K in that regard. Not being Mike Kryzewski and being "average" leaves a ton of space in between for a coach with Rick Barnes's track record of consistency. Calling him average is just plain ignorant, willful or otherwise.

 

[SGMVols]

Barnes is 24-24 in the tourney with one final four.

Coach K is 97-30 in the tourney and 12 final fours.

If coach k is considered great with 12 final fours how can barnes be anything other than average with 1 final 4 and a 24-24 record in the tourney?

24-24 is literally .500 and as average as it gets.

Both of those records would look very different if Barnes had coached a blue blood his whole career, and K never got to coach a blue blood. Texas and Tennessee aren’t anywhere close to the caliber of job as Duke and you know it.

 

[NEO]

Lol. I would say to go research it, but you won’t and don’t care.

Texas lost to Kansas in OT that year in the championship game. Kansas was 33-5. Kansas had 6 NBA draft picks. 4 players were top 25 recruits.

Texas had 4 eventual NBA draft picks- all freshmen that year. Only Durant was one and done. 2 top 25 recruits. Texas’ top 7 players were freshmen and sophomores with 5 being freshmen. Durant was the first freshman to ever win Big 12 player of the year.

But, Barnes sucks.

So he had the player of the year and 4 nba draft picks but talent beat him?

He was unable to coach his squad up with the player of the year to overcome 3 more nba draft picks who would end up being nothing to durant in the nba.

So he can only win when he has better talent?

 

[NEO]

Both of those records would look very different if Barnes had coached a blue blood his whole career, and K never got to coach a blue blood. Texas and Tennessee aren’t anywhere close to the caliber of job as Duke and you know it.

Duke had 4 total final 4s and zero national championships before coach k.

A very similar all time record to ours.

Facts guys.

 

[NEO]

K is the greatest coach of his generation. Calling Barnes average in comparison is like saying Bob Stoops was an average coach because Nick Saban has 7 titles.

Few, and certainly not me, will argue that Barnes has killed it in the postseason and that he is anything comparable to Coach K in that regard. Not being Mike Kryzewski and being "average" leaves a ton of space in between for a coach with Rick Barnes's track record of consistency. Calling him average is just plain ignorant, willful or otherwise.

Stoops won a natty.

He also doesnt have a 24-24 bowl record.

You hoist the trophy you are automatically no longer average.

 

[alvinkamara]

Stoops won a natty.

He also doesnt have a 24-24 bowl record.

You hoist the trophy you are automatically no longer average.

I think Coach Orgeron is average or below average and he raised the natty trophy