Could the next 2 games decide Manning vs Brady debate?

#27
#27
volfanbill said:
I'm not moving any goal posts, but if the Peyton sunshine pumpers get to parade around using the more with less excuse, Brady gets to use it now. And regardless of how this season shakes out, Brady will still have more rings come March. There are arguments made for both qbs that are very, very good as far as GOAT. I still put Joe Montana there personally, but if I had to take either Brady or Manning for one must win game, I'm picking Brady.

inb4 someone claims I'm not a V4L.
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No, you are not a VFL at best you are a NEGA VFL but my bet is on a little trolling going on. The above statement you made ranks right up there (top 10%) of the dumbest posts on this site. For example, Super Bowl wins is not the only meausre you rank the quallity of a QB ... how stupid along with your "sunshine pumper" comment!! :banghead2:
 
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#29
#29
I don't think the next two games decide anything.

If Manning beats the Patriots and wins the Super Bowl, it would certainly be an impressive feat. He would be the first QB to lead two completely different teams with different coaches to a Super Bowl Championship. To my mind, that is more impressive than winning multiple Super Bowls with the same team. But does it erase years of himself and his teams underperforming in the postseason? I don't think so.

If Brady beats the Broncos and wins the Super Bowl, we'll never hear the end of it from the media about how he has as many rings as Montana. And that is pretty impressive. But he still hasn't done anything without Belichick. Before Belichick coached him, he was an above average high school prospect, who was no more than an above average college QB. He has never done anything remarkable without Belichick. I wouldn't call anyone the greatest of all time when pretty much all of their success depends so much on another person.
 
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#30
#30
On this board, I will get shot for this....but.....

If Brady takes that bunch of trash to the Super Bowl, he's the greatest of all time.

Denver should win this Sunday without much difficulty.
 
#31
#31
There is no debate about it, even Peyton knows who the GOAT is.

peyton-manning-experimented-with-stem-cell-therapy-not-approved-in-the-us-before-the-season.jpg
 
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#33
#33
Brady has had the advantage of playing on much better teams throughout his career than Manning has. None of Manning's Colts teams were that great, I think this Denver team is the best team he's had in his career and thats why I really think they'll win the Super bowl.
 
#36
#36
GoVols15 said:
No, you are not a VFL at best you are a NEGA VFL but my bet is on a little trolling going on. The above statement you made ranks right up there (top 10%) of the dumbest posts on this site. For example, Super Bowl wins is not the only meausre you rank the quallity of a QB ... how stupid along with your "sunshine pumper" comment!! :banghead2:
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Never once did I say super bowl wins is the only measure. I said it's part of the equation.
 
#37
#37
Daloth said:
Between tom brady and peyton manning
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There ya go. It's far too difficult to claim greatest of all time when Montana, Starr, Marino, Elway and Johnny U played in such different eras and styles. Its like saying Tiger is the GOAT when Hogan, Sneed, etc played with such dramatically inferior equipment.
 
#38
#38
SamRebel35 said:
If Peyton wins the super bowl this year, the "He needs another super bowl ring to be in the conversation" crowd will move the goal posts again and claim that he needs at least 3 super bowl wins to be in the mix for goat.
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Yep.
 
#39
#39
volfanbill said:
There ya go. It's far too difficult to claim greatest of all time when Montana, Starr, Marino, Elway and Johnny U played in such different eras and styles. Its like saying Tiger is the GOAT when Hogan, Sneed, etc played with such dramatically inferior equipment.
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Jack Nicklaus
 
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#40
#40
oregonvol said:
I don't think the next two games decide anything.

If Manning beats the Patriots and wins the Super Bowl, it would certainly be an impressive feat. He would be the first QB to lead two completely different teams with different coaches to a Super Bowl Championship. To my mind, that is more impressive than winning multiple Super Bowls with the same team. But does it erase years of himself and his teams underperforming in the postseason? I don't think so.

If Brady beats the Broncos and wins the Super Bowl, we'll never hear the end of it from the media about how he has as many rings as Montana. And that is pretty impressive. But he still hasn't done anything without Belichick. Before Belichick coached him, he was an above average high school prospect, who was no more than an above average college QB. He has never done anything remarkable without Belichick. I wouldn't call anyone the greatest of all time when pretty much all of their success depends so much on another person.
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Yep...Bill Belichick, QB Guru. I think it is on his business card. How many different QB coaches/OC's has he had? Several.

Personally, I think Brady has done more with less offensively (outside of his oline) than most people ever could. He hasn't had a consistant rb in 6-7 years, and outside of Randy Moss for a couple he has never had a stellar WR corps.

It's this decade's version of the E. Smith/Barry Sanders debate. One has the rushing record and the other has the flash.
 
#41
#41
I keep seeing this "Brady winning with trash" theme which I don't get. In Brady's last 5 games he's 4-1 while completing 59% of his passes while avg 255yds and having 6TD's for 1.2tdpg* (Interestingly the Pats passing ypg for the season was 255.4ypg/1.56tdpg) In 3 of those 5 he didn't even need to throw for more than 200yds. Meanwhile the Pats finished the season top 10 in rushing too. Upshot, regardless of how good Brady might be (and he is) the Pats aren't exactly needing him to go out and be a superstar every game to save their bacon. In fact considering the Pats finished 12-4 with Brady having a passer rating of 87.3 (behind the likes of Matt Ryan and his 4-12 Falcons) I think it's safe to say there was a LOT more to the Pats success this year than just Brady being a monster.

*Over that same span Manning's been at 69%/316/16. (for the season 340/3.44)
 
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#42
#42
hndog609 said:
I keep seeing this "Brady winning with trash" theme which I don't get. In Brady's last 5 games he's 4-1 while completing 59% of his passes while avg 255yds and having 6TD's for 1.2tdpg* (Interestingly the Pats passing ypg for the season was 255.4ypg/1.56tdpg) In 3 of those 5 he didn't even need to throw for more than 200yds. Meanwhile the Pats finished the season top 10 in rushing too. Upshot, regardless of how good Brady might be (and he is) the Pats aren't exactly needing him to go out and be a superstar every game to save their bacon. In fact considering the Pats finished 12-4 with Brady having a passer rating of 87.3 (behind the likes of Matt Ryan and his 4-12 Falcons) I think it's safe to say there was a LOT more to the Pats success this year than just Brady being a monster.

*Over that same span Manning's been at 69%/316/16. (for the season 340/3.44)
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His passing targets are edelman and amendola.

His rbs are journeymen or a bunch of who dats.

He is working with a bunch of scrubs.

The defense is playing without mayo and wilfork. They dont have the ty law, assante samuel shut down corner anymore.

Its a top 5 draft pick team without brady and/or bellichek
 
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#43
#43
If you remove both offensive coaching staffs Peyton doesn't miss a beat. Brady wouldn't be close to what he is without the hoodie's scheme. Peyton should be in the argument for GOAT. Brady isn't in the top 5 IMO
 
#44
#44
SayNoToJorts said:
If you remove both offensive coaching staffs Peyton doesn't miss a beat. Brady wouldn't be close to what he is without the hoodie's scheme. Peyton should be in the argument for GOAT. Brady isn't in the top 5 IMO
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You know bellichek is a defensive guy, right?

The pats change offensive assistants more often than the kardashians change husbands.
 
#45
#45
A superbowl is about a team over a whole season.. never has nor ever will be about a single player... who holds the most records and stat lines are the only way to compare player vs player IMO
 
#46
#46
99gator said:
You know bellichek is a defensive guy, right?

The pats change offensive assistants more often than the kardashians change husbands.
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Belichik stays involved in play calling and designs the game plan. His scheme is what I was referring to. You could put Kim Kardashian herself in as the Broncos OC and Manning would still get it done.
 
#47
#47
99gator said:
His passing targets are edelman and amendola.

His rbs are journeymen or a bunch of who dats.

He is working with a bunch of scrubs.

The defense is playing without mayo and wilfork. They dont have the ty law, assante samuel shut down corner anymore.

Its a top 5 draft pick team without brady and/or bellichek
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Apologies but I don't see how this changes what I typed. The Pats finished top 10 in rushing this season regardless of who was doing the running and went 12-4 with a QB rating of 87.3. This in no way is a diss on Brady but to say these guys have needed to rely on Brady having to monster it (or even do much at all, the Buffalo win was 122yds and 1td) week in and week out because the team around him sucks just doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Credit that to Belichick if you wish but if the team needed Brady to play hero all the time don't you think his stats would reflect that more?
 
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#48
#48
99gator said:
His passing targets are edelman and amendola.

His rbs are journeymen or a bunch of who dats.

He is working with a bunch of scrubs.

The defense is playing without mayo and wilfork. They dont have the ty law, assante samuel shut down corner anymore.
Its a top 5 draft pick team without brady and/or bellichek
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Aqib Talib says Hi.
 
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#49
#49
Was anyone else surprised to see that Rivers had a winning record against Manning?...until yesterday. SD had Indy's number. Now Manning and Rivers are even in the W/L column when head to head.

That should tell you something when comparing QB's based on wins and losses.

Manning>Brady>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rivers
 
#50
#50
Other_Guy said:
Noticed people are talking about a possibility Peyton might not be able to return next year. If this is the case, would either QB winning the SB this year and beating the other this week put him ahead of the other?
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I actually think it would. They're both obviously two of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, but - right now - any neutral observer would have to give the edge to Brady. While Manning has a moderate edge over Brady in regular season accolades (winning record, division titles, Pro Bowls, passing stats, etc), Brady has a decisive edge over Manning in two critical areas: head-to-head performance and postseason record. Consider the following:

- In their 14 head-to-head matchups, Tom Brady has won 10 (including 2 of their 3 head-to-head playoff games).​

- Peyon Manning's career postseason record is 10 wins and 11 losses (47% win record). By contrast, Brady's postseason record is 18 wins and 7 losses (72%). Among QBs, Brady owns the NFL records for most career playoff starts (25) and wins (18), respectively.​

Yes, Peyton Manning has won a Superbowl and beaten Tom Brady before in the playoffs. However, beating Brady in this AFC Championship game would go a long way for Manning's career legacy. A win on Saturday would:

- tie his head-to-head playoff record against Brady at 2-2.
- raise his career playoff winning percentage to 50%
- make him only the ninth NFL quarterback to get to at least 3 Super Bowls​

Of course, subsequently losing the Superbowl would drop Manning's career playoff record and Superbowl record below .500 again and reinforce the national narrative that he tends to choke in big games (going back to his college days against Florida). But if Manning does beat Brady and go on to win his second Superbowl, I do think it would decisively shift the argument in Manning's favor.

Funny that I hadn't considered it before, but I think the next two games may essentially determine who was the Greatest of All Time.
 
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