Court Orders Dissolution of Trump Org

#155
#155
hog88 said:
Quit being obtuse, I thought you owned a fairly large business.
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Small business. Tiny really, but margins are good and I get the bills paid.

Still, obtuse is suggesting you can knowingly lie on financial attestations and deflect to the lender for relying on them, in part.

Should we all just go around lying about financial matters and blame the banks when it shakes out?
 
#156
#156
Septic said:
Small business. Tiny really, but margins are good and I get the bills paid.

Still, obtuse is suggesting you can knowingly lie on financial attestations and deflect to the lender for relying on them, in part.

Should we all just go around lying about financial matters and blame the banks when it shakes out?
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What valuation did he use? As I pointed out above there are different valuations for commercial properties.
 
#157
#157
hog88 said:
What valuation did he use? As I pointed out above there are different valuations for commercial properties.
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Septic said:
Looks like I was wrong about the 900% overvaluation - thanks for asking me to look into it.

(The Judge) wrote that while the Palm Beach County assessor had appraised Mar-a-Lago's market value to be between $18 million and $27.6 million, Trump had put it at between $426.5 million to $612.1 million in filings—"an overvaluation of at least 2,300 percent." Source

As was stated, the 'zillow' valuations are based on single family homes and estates. Comparing nearby lots or homes is a strawman. Mar a Lago is deeded to remain a club, drastically reducing its re-value. Additionally, it's at least in part on the historic register - another detrimental factor to the re-sale value.
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#159
#159
Septic said:
Looks like I was wrong about the 900% overvaluation - thanks for asking me to look into it.

(The Judge) wrote that while the Palm Beach County assessor had appraised Mar-a-Lago's market value to be between $18 million and $27.6 million, Trump had put it at between $426.5 million to $612.1 million in filings—"an overvaluation of at least 2,300 percent." Source

As was stated, the 'zillow' valuations are based on single family homes and estates. Comparing nearby lots or homes is a strawman. Mar a Lago is deeded to remain a club, drastically reducing its re-value. Additionally, it's at least in part on the historic register - another detrimental factor to the re-sale value.
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I didn’t use Zillow. Comparing neighbor properties isn’t a strawman at all. It’s the literal process for property evaluation.

Where are you getting that clubs or historic properties have lower values?
 
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#161
#161
Vol8188 said:
2 acres on S Ocean BLVD 150m. Yet the judges claims 20 acres to be worth 18m? You’ll even find 2 bedroom condos for as high as 7m there. Trump has 58 rooms.

www.realtor.com

1980 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, FL 33480 | realtor.com®

1980 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, FL 33480 is for sale. View 7 photos of this 2.28 acre lot land with a list price of $150000000.
www.realtor.com www.realtor.com

www.realtor.com

300 S Ocean Blvd Apt 2D, Palm Beach, FL 33480 | realtor.com®

300 S Ocean Blvd Apt 2D, Palm Beach, FL 33480 is for sale. View 52 photos of this 2 bed, 3 bath, 2251 sqft. condo with a list price of $7275000.
www.realtor.com www.realtor.com
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we should prosecute these condo owners then
 
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#163
#163
Vol8188 said:
I didn’t use Zillow. Comparing neighbor properties isn’t a strawman at all. It’s the literal process for property evaluation.

Where are you getting that clubs or historic properties have lower values?
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You can't use a personal home to value a business property and vice versa.

The only proper methodology for appraising the market value of a CLUB like Mar a Lago is to measure it against other clubs in the vicinity that are of like kind and quality.

The club is deeded and zoned as a commercial property, using the potential value of a commercial property being parted out as home lots is not only impossible - its comically stupid.
 
#164
#164
Septic said:
You can't use a personal home to value a business property and vice versa.

The only proper methodology for appraising the market value of a CLUB like Mar a Lago is to measure it against other clubs in the vicinity that are of like kind and quality.

The club is deeded and zoned as a commercial property, using the potential value of a commercial property being parted out as home lots is not only impossible - its comically stupid.
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There’s plenty of other ways to value the property. Typically though commercial property is valued even higher, not lower as you’re trying to claim.

Another example of how we could we could value the property is by cap rate. ABC claims that the club earned 37 million. That would make property worth roughly 400m assuming the average cap rate to be around 8% and depending on his expenses as a %.

The value you’re claiming would mean the club is somehow less than its annual earnings? That’s possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

abcnews.go.com

Trump earned more at Mar-a-Lago, from 'Art of the Deal,' financial disclosure form shows

The report was the president's third since declaring his candidacy two years ago
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
 
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#166
#166
theFallGuy said:
"The formal assessment does not take into consideration the fair market value - nor does it explain how Trump's estate has only increased in value by $8million since he bought it for $10million 38 years ago."

In other words, the judge just made it up
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It would also mean they’re valuing the club at less than half of its 37m annual earnings. Which is comical
 
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#167
#167
Vol8188 said:
There’s plenty of other ways to value the property. Typically though commercial property is valued even higher, not lower as you’re trying to claim.

Another example of how we could we could value the property is by cap rate. ABC claims that the club earned 37 million. That would make property worth roughly 400m assuming the average cap rate to be around 8% and depending on his expenses as a %.

The value you’re claiming would mean the club is somehow less than its annual earnings? That’s possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
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That’s the term I was looking for.
 
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#168
#168
hog88 said:
Submitting false P&Ls/financials is fraud but so far I haven’t seen anyone accuse him of that. It’s up to the lender to verify the value of the assets they are accepting as collateral. If the lender accepted a valuation 100x higher than reality it’s on them.
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Oh so he's lying on the financial statements that he's giving the bank to assess the value of his collateral? Seems just as or even more egregious.
 
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#169
#169
Vol8188 said:
Can you name any other time someone has had a civil case brought against them for overvaluing assets while applying for a bank loan?
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Found one that’s extremely close, but it won’t let me post and I ain’t got time for that. Try again later.


You can read the facts, but when you do you’ll see that First American, through a wholly owned subsidiary, was sued for inflated appraisals of real property at the request of their largest client, Washington Mutual.

Link

The differences don’t seem meaningful enough to support the claim that it’s an unprecedented civil enforcement action.
 
#170
#170
RockyTop85 said:
Found one that’s extremely close, but it won’t let me post and I ain’t got time for that. Try again later.


You can read the facts, but when you do you’ll see that First American, through a wholly owned subsidiary, was sued for inflated appraisals of real property at the request of their largest client, Washington Mutual.

Link

The differences don’t seem meaningful enough to support the claim that it’s an unprecedented civil enforcement action.
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This isn’t the same at all. They’re accused of pressuring appraisers to overvalue their properties. That’s not what trump is accused of
 
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#171
#171
Vol8188 said:
This isn’t the same at all. They’re accused of pressuring appraisers to overvalue their properties. That’s not what trump is accused of
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No, read it. The pressure was applied by a non-party. The false appraisal is what got them sued.
 
#172
#172

Donald Trump's Stunning Mar-a-Lago Estate is Worth $282M MORE Than the $18M valuation given by Manhattan Judge who held ex president liable for fraud, Palm Beach Realtor Says​

  • Democrat Justice Arthur Engoron valued the sprawling 20-acre Florida property at a mere $18million in a bombshell ruling
Donald Trump's stunning Mar-a-Lago estate is worth $282million more than the $18million valuation it was given by a Manhattan judge who held the ex president liable for fraud, a Palm Beach realtor said.

Engoron used a Palm Beach Assessor valuation that ranged the 128-room property from $18 million to $28 million between 2011 and 2021. But it was valued at $160 Million by Forbes in 2018, and $350 Million in an assessment in March 2022.

And a relator from the area said it's likely worth more than $300million, while Trump himself has estimated the property could be worth up to $700million. He slammed the judge today and said it's worth '100 times more than he values it.'

The formal assessment does not take into consideration the fair market value - nor does it explain how Trump's estate has only increased in value by $8million since he bought it for $10million 38 years ago.


One prominent Palm Beach real estate broker told The New York Post: 'It's utterly delusional to think that property is only worth $18 million.'

'If that property were on the market today, I would list it at around $300 million, minimum … at least. He also has the separate golf course minutes away.'


1695837383413.png
Democrat Justice Arthur Engoron valued the sprawling 20-acre Florida property at a mere $18million in a bombshell ruling that said the former president inflated the value of his wealth

A two-acre lot, located just minutes from Mar-a-Lago, is currently listed for $150 million. Many have questioned therefore how Trump's home - which is 10 times bigger - could be worth 157 percent less.

1695837516274.png

www.dailymail.co.uk

Mar-a-Lago is worth $282M MORE than the $18M valuation, realtor says

Donald Trump 's stunning Mar-a-Lago estate is worth $282million more than the $18million valuation it was given by Manhattan judge who held ex president liable for fraud, a Palm Beach realtor said.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
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#173
#173
RockyTop85 said:
No, read it. The pressure was applied by a non-party. The false appraisal is what got them sued.
Click to expand...

These are appraisal companies hired for appraisals. Obviously they should be held accountable for false appraisals.

How is that the same?
 
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#175
#175
Vol8188 said:
There’s plenty of other ways to value the property. Typically though commercial property is valued even higher, not lower as you’re trying to claim.

Another example of how we could we could value the property is by cap rate. ABC claims that the club earned 37 million. That would make property worth roughly 400m assuming the average cap rate to be around 8% and depending on his expenses as a %.

The value you’re claiming would mean the club is somehow less than its annual earnings? That’s possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

abcnews.go.com

Trump earned more at Mar-a-Lago, from 'Art of the Deal,' financial disclosure form shows

The report was the president's third since declaring his candidacy two years ago
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
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Lol. You seem to have the palm beach private club valuation market all figured out. By the way, did Mar a Lago gross 37m or net $37m? You just went from comparing residential condo units to historic commercial properties. Bravo.

Between you and Hogg, y'all could have saved Donny a fortune in legal fees.
 
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