Da Reds thread

#10,826
#10,826
volatil said:
Cozart 0-19.
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Don't point out the obvious negatives with this team or the non-Red fan trolls will start. They need to go clutter up their teams' threads with pointless, DA comments. Some are on ignore. Others are going there - just waiting to see who shows up.

Very good day by Simon/Parra. Glad the O scratched out a big 2 runs on 8 hits. Choo carried them early last season. Will see if somebody else does it or not. Not holding my breath.
 
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#10,828
#10,828
blupotato said:
I'm a reds fan and I honestly don't understand the mental argument with votto. His dad died and he had some panic attacks. Could happen to anyone. In 2010 he played 150 games. In 2011 he played 161 games. Had a knee injury that cut short the next season. Last year he played in 162 games. He's focused at the plate and had a down year in terms of errors last year, but he isn't a basket case. There are other things to complain about. He can only do so much.
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Take a good close look at the stats in the link below.

Joey Votto Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

After reviewing this go look at the list of top paid players in MLB. Now tell me which active player on that list has the limited stats, production and volatility of performance than Votto. The club bet on the come with the big contract in a small market. He's had one great year and one very good year. That's it. That combined with having to go big contract to keep BP and choosing to go big with Bailey, limits what they can do to build a roster of every day players on par with the Cards and other top teams. Look who the Cards have. Would they exchange Craig or Molina or even Holliday for Votto. Nope.

I will keep repeating what Walt said in his interview in the off season with Cunningham - the club expects Pujols type production out of Joey. That is what they paid for. Not 2 hole hitting that you can get for much less. Joey chooses to approach the game the way he does. He would rather have the good 2 hole stats than face the risk of failure at being what they contracted him to be - the 2010 and 2011 Joey. If you read the interviews with him in the off season it was clear. he even said at one point that he would be OK with being moved to the 2 hole. Great. A $20+ mill a year 2 hole hitter. Good for Joey, bad for the club.

Champy is right - he needs moved for value. We have seen this story play out in Cincy for many years and it leads to the dumper if they don't do something unless Votto grows a pair.
 
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#10,829
#10,829
Vols4us said:
Don't point out the obvious negatives with this team or the non-Red fan trolls will start. They need to go clutter up their teams' threads with pointless, DA comments. Some are on ignore. Others are going there - just waiting to see who shows up.

Very good day by Simon/Parra. Glad the O scratched out a big 2 runs on 8 hits. Choo carried them early last season. Will see if somebody else does it or not. Not holding my breath.
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Actually, no one thinks cozart is any good.
 
#10,830
#10,830
Vols4us said:
Don't point out the obvious negatives with this team or the non-Red fan trolls will start. They need to go clutter up their teams' threads with pointless, DA comments. Some are on ignore. Others are going there - just waiting to see who shows up.

Very good day by Simon/Parra. Glad the O scratched out a big 2 runs on 8 hits. Choo carried them early last season. Will see if somebody else does it or not. Not holding my breath.
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We have little to no offensive production from the left side of the infield.

Hamilton is 0-12. Can't steal first base.

Thank the Lord we had good pitching today.

I see a fire sale coming this year.
 
#10,832
#10,832
Vols4us said:
Take a good close look at the stats in the link below.

Joey Votto Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

After reviewing this go look at the list of top paid players in MLB. Now tell me which active player on that list has the limited stats, production and volatility of performance than Votto. The club bet on the come with the big contract in a small market. He's had one great year and one very good year. That's it. That combined with having to go big contract to keep BP and choosing to go big with Bailey, limits what they can do to build a roster of every day players on par with the Cards and other top teams. Look who the Cards have. Would they exchange Craig or Molina or even Holliday for Votto. Nope.

I will keep repeating what Walt said in his interview in the off season with Cunningham - the club expects Pujols type production out of Joey. That is what they paid for. Not 2 hole hitting that you can get for much less. Joey chooses to approach the game the way he does. He would rather have the good 2 hole stats than face the risk of failure at being what they contracted him to be - the 2010 and 2011 Joey. If you read the interviews with him in the off season it was clear. he even said at one point that he would be OK with being moved to the 2 hole. Great. A $20+ mill a year 2 hole hitter. Good for Joey, bad for the club.

Champy is right - he needs moved for value. We have seen this story play out in Cincy for many years and it leads to the dumper if they don't do something unless Votto grows a pair.
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Actually nevermind. Not gonna waste my time
 
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#10,834
#10,834
Vols4us said:
Take a good close look at the stats in the link below.

Joey Votto Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

After reviewing this go look at the list of top paid players in MLB. Now tell me which active player on that list has the limited stats, production and volatility of performance than Votto. The club bet on the come with the big contract in a small market. He's had one great year and one very good year. That's it. That combined with having to go big contract to keep BP and choosing to go big with Bailey, limits what they can do to build a roster of every day players on par with the Cards and other top teams. Look who the Cards have. Would they exchange Craig or Molina or even Holliday for Votto. Nope.

I will keep repeating what Walt said in his interview in the off season with Cunningham - the club expects Pujols type production out of Joey. That is what they paid for. Not 2 hole hitting that you can get for much less. Joey chooses to approach the game the way he does. He would rather have the good 2 hole stats than face the risk of failure at being what they contracted him to be - the 2010 and 2011 Joey. If you read the interviews with him in the off season it was clear. he even said at one point that he would be OK with being moved to the 2 hole. Great. A $20+ mill a year 2 hole hitter. Good for Joey, bad for the club.

Champy is right - he needs moved for value. We have seen this story play out in Cincy for many years and it leads to the dumper if they don't do something unless Votto grows a pair.
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regardless jock has destroyed the team for the next decade. votto and bailey both need to be moved even if we get little in return. we have no hitting on the team at all, goes to show that jock's pitching wins championships doesn't work. there has to be a balance. he paid probably 2 of the most selfish players in baseball huge contracts. all I can say is I hope the pirates beat the cards this year(no offense beef just don't like the cards).lol
 
#10,835
#10,835
the beat goes on for the worst hitting team in the majors. 1rst order of business is to send old man jock to retirement. 2nd fire sale in june votto, Phillips, bailey, and cozart all gone. 3rd price probably needs to be moved back to pitching coach and bring in a real manager. if not the reds are dead for a decade or more, I sure wish we had the cards upper management and owners. we would actually be good. they are just flat out a better organization all the way around.
 
#10,836
#10,836
Maybe things will start looking up when a 1/3 of our roster isn't on the dl and we aren't facing some of the best pitching in all of baseball. From what I've seen thus far is Hamilton is still a rookie, cozart can't buy a hit, hoover is having a rough time, and for the love of god why is ondrusek still pitching for this team. Outside of the pitching and injuries, we have lost some very close games against the cardinals. Am I happy about that? No. But is the sky crashing down after the first week? No.
 
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#10,837
#10,837
blupotato said:
Maybe things will start looking up when a 1/3 of our roster isn't on the dl and we aren't facing some of the best pitching in all of baseball. From what I've seen thus far is Hamilton is still a rookie, cozart can't buy a hit, hoover is having a rough time, and for the love of god why is ondrusek still pitching for this team. Outside of the pitching and injuries, we have lost some very close games against the cardinals. Am I happy about that? No. But is the sky crashing down after the first week? No.
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maybe, but i really doubt it. we are in the basement where we belong. when you make bad off season moves and just dumb crazy signings ( homer bailey) this is what happens. there was a reason why most experts picked us 3rd in the division. it isn't rocket science.
 
#10,838
#10,838
Votto isn't clutch you guys.

(As he hits an oppo homer off David Price in the ninth)
 
#10,839
#10,839
zjcvols said:
Votto isn't clutch you guys.

(As he hits an oppo homer off David Price in the ninth)
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Z - I respect your posting. You are one of the few I have not culled on here. We have different opinions on how the game should be played. That's OK.

But to use Votto's one HR of the year as being representative of his clutch hitting is bizarre for a good poster. He is leading the team in LOB. He is hitting .257 with 1 HR, 2 RBI's, 6 walks and 8 strike outs in the first 10 games with poor D. The argument has always been that Joey starts slow - wait until he heats up. Well that last happened before the injury. There is not one Red fan out there that does not sincerely hope Votto returns to his previous form, especially since they bet the farm (literally) on him being the big gun. But if he is not going to do that he needs to go.

So in an effort to use him for what he truly is - Price is batting him in the 2 hole tonight. Maybe that will get him going, or maybe that is simply a concession that he is not what they hoped he would be. Will see how if plays out.
 
#10,840
#10,840
blupotato said:
Maybe things will start looking up when a 1/3 of our roster isn't on the dl and we aren't facing some of the best pitching in all of baseball. From what I've seen thus far is Hamilton is still a rookie, cozart can't buy a hit, hoover is having a rough time, and for the love of god why is ondrusek still pitching for this team. Outside of the pitching and injuries, we have lost some very close games against the cardinals. Am I happy about that? No. But is the sky crashing down after the first week? No.
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Good post, blue. Too early to call. Cueto has been great, which answers a big question. Get a few of the other key guys back and it will help. The problem is the hitting and run production. Price is starting Votto in the 2 hole tonight so that will help get the line-up smoothed out.

Price needs to work on his situational moves. He has messed up a few already. Why bat Cozart in the 8th last night? PH for him and bring in Santiago in the 9th. There have been other head scratchers like BP bunting Billy to third in the first inning against the Cards. Hopefully he learns from those mistakes.
 
#10,841
#10,841
champyvol said:
regardless jock has destroyed the team for the next decade. votto and bailey both need to be moved even if we get little in return. we have no hitting on the team at all, goes to show that jock's pitching wins championships doesn't work. there has to be a balance. he paid probably 2 of the most selfish players in baseball huge contracts. all I can say is I hope the pirates beat the cards this year(no offense beef just don't like the cards).lol
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People who really don't get the inside of how the game is played or follow the Reds closely really do not understand the truth of that statement. The run to the stats sheet and make arguments. It's their opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

If they were going to pay anybody the big bucks, it should be to proactively do good deals with Latos, Cueto, and especially Leake. Leake has made huge steps. He has changed his nutrition, his training, and his pitching style to more of a poor man's Greg Maddux. He has the arm and athleticism to be a #3 starter for a lot of years. Instead they pay the big bucks to a bonehead that they have babied for years. Walt has obviously lost the sixth sense of the right time to move a guy.
 
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#10,842
#10,842
Vols4us said:
Good post, blue. Too early to call. Cueto has been great, which answers a big question. Get a few of the other key guys back and it will help. The problem is the hitting and run production. Price is starting Votto in the 2 hole tonight so that will help get the line-up smoothed out.

Price needs to work on his situational moves. He has messed up a few already. Why bat Cozart in the 8th last night? PH for him and bring in Santiago in the 9th. There have been other head scratchers like BP bunting Billy to third in the first inning against the Cards. Hopefully he learns from those mistakes.
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I didn't ever find out if bp did that on his own or if it was intentional. It's been frustrating thus far and I get that like every other reds follower. The list is large for things that need to be corrected in order to be a competitor. I am just eager for these injured guys to grow a pair and get back out there. I can't help but be hopeful. Makes for an even longer miserable season to be too negative at this point.
 
#10,845
#10,845
Price's move to the 2 hole has worked so far with Votto. Many of us have been calling for this for years. Dusty should have listened. I know management did because Walt stated it could happen in the off season. Dude is now hitting like the old Joey again. Looks like it took some mental pressure off him as well as having an experienced RH bat behind him in BP. Hope he sustains this for the season and earns that big paycheck. If he does this team will get going again.

Cueto took his off seasoning conditioning seriously this time. It shows. Dude is lights out this season.
 
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#10,846
#10,846
blupotato said:
I didn't ever find out if bp did that on his own or if it was intentional. It's been frustrating thus far and I get that like every other reds follower. The list is large for things that need to be corrected in order to be a competitor. I am just eager for these injured guys to grow a pair and get back out there. I can't help but be hopeful. Makes for an even longer miserable season to be too negative at this point.
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Good post. Yep - Price stated after the game why he called for it. He also acted embarrassed he did. So hopefully he learned from it. I've not seen near as many managerial issues in the last few games.

I am hopeful even when I am mad at them. It is way to early to give up on the season. Work back toward .500 and then get on a roll. I agree on the injured guys except for Latos. They need to hold him out until sometime in June IMO. Too valuable to rush it. But it is time for Marshall to either pitch or go away. Chappy will be back soon.
 
#10,847
#10,847
Yeah, the 2 hole made him a much better hitter, especially with RBI machine BP behind him..

Anyways, Cueto pitched really well today. Too bad they didn't over pay bum Bronson like some wanted... The Reds will be fine, contrary to the belief of some in here
 
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#10,848
#10,848
Vols4us said:
Good post. Yep - Price stated after the game why he called for it. He also acted embarrassed he did. So hopefully he learned from it. I've not seen near as many managerial issues in the last few games.

I am hopeful even when I am mad at them. It is way to early to give up on the season. Work back toward .500 and then get on a roll. I agree on the injured guys except for Latos. They need to hold him out until sometime in June IMO. Too valuable to rush it. But it is time for Marshall to either pitch or go away. Chappy will be back soon.
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I agree with latos. Don't want to rush him and deal with lagging injury, but the long lasting injuries with this club are almost comical through the years. Masset was on the dl for how long? Seems like it was years. Gonzalez at ss was out for forever. Marshall has been out for too long. If Broxton gets a cold he goes straight to the dl it seems. Some of these guys need to suck it up and earn their keep. Just beers and frustration talking, but I feel there is some truth in there. Chapman got hit in the face and is coming back at lightning speed compared to guys who are just tired from throwing a bullpen session. I don't know who's to blame sometimes if it's the training staff or a rash of yeast infections.
 
#10,850
#10,850
blupotato said:
I agree with latos. Don't want to rush him and deal with lagging injury, but the long lasting injuries with this club are almost comical through the years. Masset was on the dl for how long? Seems like it was years. Gonzalez at ss was out for forever. Marshall has been out for too long. If Broxton gets a cold he goes straight to the dl it seems. Some of these guys need to suck it up and earn their keep. Just beers and frustration talking, but I feel there is some truth in there. Chapman got hit in the face and is coming back at lightning speed compared to guys who are just tired from throwing a bullpen session. I don't know who's to blame sometimes if it's the training staff or a rash of yeast infections.
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lol. Good stuff bud. Gonzalez lasted a long time with the Tigers didn't he?! Spot on. Holding on to Masset for so long made me think he had photos on Dusty or Walt. lol. Same with Marshall - what is it up with that? Pitch them or move them.

Like posters on here. Some need to accept reality. The line-up is producing some runs now. In the last couple of weeks has been leading MLB in key stats. Why? Nobody is waiting around on Votto to do something now that he is second. Meso has picked up the slack and Luddy/Heisey are doing decent. All the talk about OBP - look at Bruce hitting 75 points below Votto while scoring more runs and having more RBI's. Frazier has scored as many runs and more RBI's with a lower average/OBP. All because Meso, Luddy/Heisey and of late, even Cozart have picked up the slack. if the pitching was at full staff and had started like they did last season this team would be leading the division instead of 8-11.

Plenty of time, but Price needs to keep improving as a manager and they have to rid themselves of Ondrusek and use Hoover only for mop up duty for awhile. They can also start using Marshall and Broxton until their arms fall off, then release them.
 
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