Dave Hart Mr. Controversy

#251
#251
GAVol said:
I'm not calling you dumb and I'm sorry if it came off that way. Just saying what you're describing isn't what I'm talking about at all.

There's a very plausible reason why Nike came back and advised us to brand everything under "Vols" and use the Power T logo. It has zero to do with power or sexism and everything to do with brand continuity and money.

We can agree or disagree about what's best. But all this venom, conspiracy theories and pettiness is useless.
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and Nike said they never advised that..........
 
#252
#252
I've heard that same thing about recruits (football, men's bball) wanting a Nike school. They're all impressed with Oregon's many looks. (And Oregon's many looks makes me wonder what's the problem with multiple looks for UT?)

The conspiracy theories aren't theories. Hart lied back when he publicly said that UT was not even considering doing away with the Lady Vols brand then announced the multi-year study (which has never appeared). He lied when he laid the decision to do away with the brand at Nike's feet. He lied when he assured Pat he wouldn't touch the brand. On top of combining the men's & women's departments by simply decimating the women's side and putting the women's teams under people who had never worked with/for those teams before, and *poof* disappearing the Lady Vols Hall of Fame and all that history, ... geez, isn't he supposed to at least pretend to care about women's sports?

Not to mention kicking Pat Summitt to the curb after assuring her and all of us it was her decision as to when she gave up coaching. And doing it in the middle of the NCAA tournament like it didn't matter. No wonder Debby Jennings, a 30-some-year employee, suddenly became "insubordinate".

Women's sports at UT matter to a lot of us fans. When the Athletic Department reduces them to such an insignificant after-thought in such disrespectful ways, it's fightin' time. Why is that hard to understand?

Why not keep employees that had experience taking teams to championships, no matter their gonads? Why not be direct and respectful about the future direction? It could all have been done their way peacefully & united. Unfortunately, there are idiots in charge.

on edit - Hart doesn't attend LV games. Who is courting the fans/donors? Anybody?
 
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#253
#253
Marketing two things is more expensive than marketing one. Getting the public to embrace and remember two themes is harder than one. It really isn't even a slightly difficult concept to grasp.

I really don't know what motivated Hart to take the steps he has taken - I do find it interesting that a set of you claim to know everything about his intent.

But to me this thread is evidence that convergence/harmonization was needed across UT athletics. There is definitely an undercurrent of separatism and "we're better" in the attitudes some of you project. That sucks on so many levels and is poison to any organization that should be functioning as a single entity. I don't know if eradicating that is part of Hart's motivation or not, but it would be my guess - and if I'm right, I hope he keeps going until it is completely obliterated.
 
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#254
#254
And regarding CPS, who deserves all the respect and admiration she gets.

My dad is in early stage dementia. Appears completely lucid in moments, completely irrational in others. He wants to drive, and the obvious fear is that he will have an accident and kill himself and/or others. He, of course, believes this will not happen; everyone who doesn't want him to drive is "against" him; HE will know when he's no longer able to handle it.

This is familiar to people who have gone through it in their families. It is gut-wrenching. Nobody wants to take away independence from a person who has lived an independent, productive life. But no responsible person would ever abdicate responsibility and just let the person decide. And no person can possibly know the exact moment when stepping in is absolutely necessary - people do the best they can based on the evidence they have.

I think those of you who keep repeating cliches like "CPS should have been able to leave on her own terms" are unbelievably naive about the realities of dementia. I can only hope your children will adopt a more responsible attitude if the need arises in your own cases.
 
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#255
#255
munsterlander said:
Marketing two things is more expensive than marketing one. Getting the public to embrace and remember two themes is harder than one. It really isn't even a slightly difficult concept to grasp.

I really don't know what motivated Hart to take the steps he has taken - I do find it interesting that a set of you claim to know everything about his intent.

But to me this thread is evidence that convergence/harmonization was needed across UT athletics. There is definitely an undercurrent of separatism and "we're better" in the attitudes some of you project. That sucks on so many levels and is poison to any organization that should be functioning as a single entity. I don't know if eradicating that is part of Hart's motivation or not, but it would be my guess - and if I'm right, I hope he keeps going until it is completely obliterated.
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If you were starting from scratch, I agree one is easier than two, but the whole organization was there and in place already. It would have been easier to leave well enough alone. It's also not a we are better attitude as much as a we are good enough to have our own identity. Separate but equal. The organization was fine until Hart stepped in and made it "not fine". Combine the AD. That doesn't matter. Just leave the Lady Vols alone. It's a simple concept and no change was needed. Hart made a problem where there wasn't one.
 
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#256
#256
munsterlander said:
And regarding CPS, who deserves all the respect and admiration she gets.

My dad is in early stage dementia. Appears completely lucid in moments, completely irrational in others. He wants to drive, and the obvious fear is that he will have an accident and kill himself and/or others. He, of course, believes this will not happen; everyone who doesn't want him to drive is "against" him; HE will know when he's no longer able to handle it.

This is familiar to people who have gone through it in their families. It is gut-wrenching. Nobody wants to take away independence from a person who has lived an independent, productive life. But no responsible person would ever abdicate responsibility and just let the person decide. And no person can possibly know the exact moment when stepping in is absolutely necessary - people do the best they can based on the evidence they have.

I think those of you who keep repeating cliches like "CPS should have been able to leave on her own terms" are unbelievably naive about the realities of dementia. I can only hope your children will adopt a more responsible attitude if the need arises in your own cases.
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Thanks for sharing your personal painful real-life experience with this...nothing to add...this stands on it's own. :hi:
 
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#257
#257
munsterlander said:
And regarding CPS, who deserves all the respect and admiration she gets.

My dad is in early stage dementia. Appears completely lucid in moments, completely irrational in others. He wants to drive, and the obvious fear is that he will have an accident and kill himself and/or others. He, of course, believes this will not happen; everyone who doesn't want him to drive is "against" him; HE will know when he's no longer able to handle it.

This is familiar to people who have gone through it in their families. It is gut-wrenching. Nobody wants to take away independence from a person who has lived an independent, productive life. But no responsible person would ever abdicate responsibility and just let the person decide. And no person can possibly know the exact moment when stepping in is absolutely necessary - people do the best they can based on the evidence they have.

I think those of you who keep repeating cliches like "CPS should have been able to leave on her own terms" are unbelievably naive about the realities of dementia. I can only hope your children will adopt a more responsible attitude if the need arises in your own cases.
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I'm really glad you posted that because I have the exact same thought every time I see someone complain about the situation. I unfortunately have the same thing going on at my house. Due to a tragedy in our family, my Mother-in-law who suffers from dementia moved in with us about a month ago. I don't think anybody can possibly realize the challenges until you see it up close.

Stay strong.
 
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#258
#258
Orange Maniac said:
If you were starting from scratch, I agree one is easier than two, but the whole organization was there and in place already. It would have been easier to leave well enough alone. It's also not a we are better attitude as much as a we are good enough to have our own identity. Separate but equal. The organization was fine until Hart stepped in and made it "not fine". Combine the AD. That doesn't matter. Just leave the Lady Vols alone. It's a simple concept and no change was needed. Hart made a problem where there wasn't one.
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You're conveniently reinforcing my point. You actually want to be separate.

And you're conflating the issue of two departments (which comes with an ongoing unnecessary cost) with two marketing themes/identities, which also comes with an ongoing unnecessary cost.

Like I said earlier, there's a snobbish elitism in this. Separate is not a good thing. It is divisive and costly.

I suspect what Hart saw is leaving well enough alone was not a good thing, despite what some of you believe. I suspect he saw separatism and elitism and divisiveness, not to mention cost-ineffectiveness - and when forced to defend the status quo, the inability immediately resulted in claims of sexism, hating women, etc etc etc.

Debbie Jennings and like-minded folks don't seem to have the best interests of UT at heart - they seem to have preserving their little kingdoms and status quo first and foremost. Dragging UT through the mud - who cares - it's all about them. I still find it disgusting.
 
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#259
#259
To all who are dealing with dementia in their loved ones, I have the utmost respect and sympathy. But it's not the issue here. Coach Summitt had been very courageously public in announcing her condition and letting everyone know she would be stepping down at some point. She had announced she would be making a decision after the season was over. She and her team won the SEC Tournament and had started into the NCAA Tournament. Hart didn't wait for the season to end - he went on and tore all our hearts out. Let's not forget that. Is this wisdom? Respect? Good for UT?

And as far as any calling the women's dept superior to the men's, I don't know if that is so, but I know there was a lot of success on the women's side, as well as far less bad publicity from arrests or NCAA violations. Wouldn't you retain at least some of that as opposed to flushing it?
 
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#261
#261
VollyParton said:
To all who are dealing with dementia in their loved ones, I have the utmost respect and sympathy. But it's not the issue here. Coach Summitt had been very courageously public in announcing her condition and letting everyone know she would be stepping down at some point. She had announced she would be making a decision after the season was over. She and her team won the SEC Tournament and had started into the NCAA Tournament. Hart didn't wait for the season to end - he went on and tore all our hearts out. Let's not forget that. Is this wisdom? Respect? Good for UT?

And as far as any calling the women's dept superior to the men's, I don't know if that is so, but I know there was a lot of success on the women's side, as well as far less bad publicity from arrests or NCAA violations. Wouldn't you retain at least some of that as opposed to flushing it?
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2nd paragraph, again, reinforces my point. You don't want to come out and say it point blank, but you clearly believe the women's side is superior. And name one school that doesn't have more problems with 18-22 yo males than females.

With respect to first paragraph, I guess you don't follow parallels very well. The fact CPS went public has no bearing on whether or not she was in a position to make a good decision - just like my dad is in no position to make a good decision about driving.

Tore your heart out? Good grief, grow up. CPS isn't supergirl. This is real life and "strong" people succomb to dementia whether you like it or not. Things end. Had she stayed and had a miserable year which inevitably would have led to her feeling bad about herself and like she had let the community down, would that have made your heart feel better? Would that have been good for her? Maybe that was precisely wisdom, respect for her, good for UT?

Maybe time to be adults and put the childish vendetta aside.
 
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#262
#262
all Dave Hart is done is cut the womens side of sports down ,I do believe that was going to happen any way,but they could have let the womens logo alone and not piss the fans off,Hart hasn't done much other than back into hiring coach Jones and hiring a coach under fire,Tyndal

and I'm still pissed off that he let Wilcox and company go and hired a Bammer ,just think what could have happened

he is doing what Cheek and company want,not that i agree with it,but we will have to live with him and his ways,they should fire him,if Tyndal gets a NCAA sanction,to me he didn't look at all the trouble this hire may bring,we shall see I guess
 
#263
#263
governmentmule said:
all Dave Hart is done is cut the womens side of sports down ,I do believe that was going to happen any way,but they could have let the womens logo alone and not piss the fans off,Hart hasn't done much other than back into hiring coach Jones and hiring a coach under fire,Tyndal

and I'm still pissed off that he let Wilcox and company go and hired a Bammer ,just think what could have happened

he is doing what Cheek and company want,not that i agree with it,but we will have to live with him and his ways,they should fire him,if Tyndal gets a NCAA sanction,to me he didn't look at all the trouble this hire may bring,we shall see I guess
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He fired Wilcox? :huh:...First I've heard.
 
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#264
#264
he didn't sign them to contract extensions , and them brought in his pal Sal,with a good contract
 
#266
#266
just think what could have happened with a good defense,they were a top 25 defense with Wilcox and company ,if I remember correctly
 
#268
#268
butchna said:
Probably didn't sign Wilcox and Sirmon to extensions because they were coaching for Washington. :)
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That is not exactly the way it happened. Hart wouldn't agree to extend any of Dooley assistant's contracts when Dooley was starting into his third year.
 
#269
#269
VollyParton said:
To all who are dealing with dementia in their loved ones, I have the utmost respect and sympathy. But it's not the issue here. Coach Summitt had been very courageously public in announcing her condition and letting everyone know she would be stepping down at some point. She had announced she would be making a decision after the season was over. She and her team won the SEC Tournament and had started into the NCAA Tournament. Hart didn't wait for the season to end - he went on and tore all our hearts out. Let's not forget that. Is this wisdom? Respect? Good for UT?

And as far as any calling the women's dept superior to the men's, I don't know if that is so, but I know there was a lot of success on the women's side, as well as far less bad publicity from arrests or NCAA violations. Wouldn't you retain at least some of that as opposed to flushing it?
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Exactly. The pro Hart crowd are just trying to go off on tangents. The issue is the way it was handled. The dishonesty, the disinterest in the affected athletes, the disinterest in Volnation, apparently prioritized Nike's interest over VOLS, etc. Just piss poor across the board.
 
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#270
#270
Sandvol said:
That is not exactly the way it happened. Hart wouldn't agree to extend any of Dooley assistant's contracts when Dooley was starting into his third year.
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They were offered...both are still on Sarkision's staff btw...I think you're stretching for anything anti-Hart to benefit your primary argument. Hart run off Joseph too?
 
#271
#271
munsterlander said:
2nd paragraph, again, reinforces my point. You don't want to come out and say it point blank, but you clearly believe the women's side is superior. And name one school that doesn't have more problems with 18-22 yo males than females.
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I don't know about reinforcing your point, but you're missing my point. I'm saying the people in the women's dept didn't deserve the treatment they got. Why wouldn't you keep successful people?

munsterlander said:
With respect to first paragraph, I guess you don't follow parallels very well. The fact CPS went public has no bearing on whether or not she was in a position to make a good decision - just like my dad is in no position to make a good decision about driving.
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Again, you missed it. Why not wait 3 more weeks?

munsterlander said:
Tore your heart out? Good grief, grow up. CPS isn't supergirl. This is real life and "strong" people succomb to dementia whether you like it or not. Things end. Had she stayed and had a miserable year which inevitably would have led to her feeling bad about herself and like she had let the community down, would that have made your heart feel better? Would that have been good for her? Maybe that was precisely wisdom, respect for her, good for UT?

Maybe time to be adults and put the childish vendetta aside.
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I agree with your last line. Talk to Mr A.D.
 
#272
#272
butchna said:
They were offered...both are still on Sarkision's staff btw...I think you're stretching for anything anti-Hart to benefit your primary argument. Hart run off Joseph too?
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he under cut coach Dooley,no doubt about it,will he do it again ?

who knows,but he has done it
 
#275
#275
governmentmule said:
he under cut coach Dooley,no doubt about it,will he do it again ?

who knows,but he has done it
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He could've "undercut" him and FIRED him after the Kentucky loss very easily and with virtually no blowback from the masses...if so nefarious. He tried to give a guy deservedly on the hot seat every opportunity to get a new chair.
 
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