Davies Suspended from BYU's Squad

#101
#101
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Player: "Hey coach, I am a bit confused about this honor code, could you explain it to me a little"
Coach: "Dont worry about it Son, I guarantee I will take care of you. You are special, just sign on the line"

We have no idea if that converstation took place, if it did, then I would be lawyering up. If it didnt then it's his bed and he has to lie in it.

I am more annoyed by the inconsistency that is going on in the NCAA right now. Also I want to watch the best compete at the highest level, not bench warmers.
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Yeah, I'm sure Dave Rose told Davies something that would result in his immediate termination. Also, unless it's in writing, the verbal assurances are meaningless. The Harvey Unga situation pretty much acts as an estoppel for anyone wanting to claim they didn't understand the honor code.
 
#102
#102
GoBigOrangeVols said:
However, the other parts of my post are hardly lunacy.
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Actually, that's exactly what it is. Cutting through the pseudoliberal babble about modern society, you seem to think you're intellectually qualified to tell a private entity what rules they should promulgate and demand compliance with inside their organization. You're most certainly not.
 
#103
#103
GoBigOrangeVols said:
I'm surprised by how many folks on here, and the pundits on tv that have defended BYU today, and even commended them on sticking to their "code."

I find it frightening that so many people around the country have said it is "refreshing" to see a school following an archaic moral code that has no relevance in modern society.

The only defense being used is that "he knew the rules when he decided to go there." This does not take into account two things: 1) he was adopted at a very young age by an LDS family and likely had no choice but to have the LDS church shoved down his throat his entire life and again no choice but to attend to the LDS flap ship university and 2) that this rule is so outdated and unrealistic, yet many both on here and around the country don't question it, rather they follow it blindly. This goes against everything that an education should encourage, values like self determinism and encouraging scholars to question everything, even deep seeded traditions.

Finally, I wonder if this result and the perception of the dismissal from the team would be the same if the player was white.
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If he has been part of a Mormon family since a young age, he has heard the teachings for the same amount of time. Stupid arguement, but not as stupid as the race statement.
 
#104
#104
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Player: "Hey coach, I am a bit confused about this honor code, could you explain it to me a little"
Coach: "Dont worry about it Son, I guarantee I will take care of you. You are special, just sign on the line"

We have no idea if that converstation took place, if it did, then I would be lawyering up. If it didnt then it's his bed and he has to lie in it.

I am more annoyed by the inconsistency that is going on in the NCAA right now. Also I want to watch the best compete at the highest level, not bench warmers.
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my guess is they look the other way until you actually knock someone up. his mistake wasn't banging his GF it was making it painfully obvious to all that he was banging her. he forced their hand
 
#106
#106
GoBigOrangeVols said:
I'm surprised by how many folks on here, and the pundits on tv that have defended BYU today, and even commended them on sticking to their "code."

I find it frightening that so many people around the country have said it is "refreshing" to see a school following an archaic moral code that has no relevance in modern society.

The only defense being used is that "he knew the rules when he decided to go there." This does not take into account two things: 1) he was adopted at a very young age by an LDS family and likely had no choice but to have the LDS church shoved down his throat his entire life and again no choice but to attend to the LDS flap ship university and 2) that this rule is so outdated and unrealistic, yet many both on here and around the country don't question it, rather they follow it blindly. This goes against everything that an education should encourage, values like self determinism and encouraging scholars to question everything, even deep seeded traditions.

Finally, I wonder if this result and the perception of the dismissal from the team would be the same if the player was white.
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Regardless of whether or not you think their archaic moral code is outdated and unnecessary today they stuck to their guns in a difficult situation and that's what people find refreshing.
 
#107
#107
San Diego Vol said:
If he is Mormon, he'll also most likely be excommunicated from their church too. A girl I worked with got prego at 17 with her boyfriend and the church kicked her out even though her entire family is Mormon. She cannot attend any weddings, etc anymore. Talk about forgiveness.
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He would have to be a church official for that to be true. Your friend's story is garbage. No offense. Me and my friends did a lot worse than that and didn't get X'd.
 
#108
#108
San Diego Vol said:
If he is Mormon, he'll also most likely be excommunicated from their church too. A girl I worked with got prego at 17 with her boyfriend and the church kicked her out even though her entire family is Mormon. She cannot attend any weddings, etc anymore. Talk about forgiveness.
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I think there are two different punishments IIRC. It's been a few years since I studied LDS. I think excommunicated is the harsh one, no coming back, condemned to hell, that kind of thing. I think there is another one where you can be accepted back, I'm just not sure of the terminology.
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#109
#109
nbakerld said:
Regardless of whether or not you think their archaic moral code is outdated and unnecessary today they stuck to their guns in a difficult situation and that's what people find refreshing.
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My point exactly. They are being exonerated and commended for blindly following a worthless and offensive policy, not a "difficult situation."

I understand that they have a right as a private school to make their code whatever they want. Just because they have that private right doesn't mean I can't speak out about how pathetic that "moral code" is. In fact, my right to do so is just as fundamental as theirs. If nothing else, this case has brought to light just how backwards their system is and will ultimately hurt them from getting players that are on the fence about attending school there.
 
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#110
#110
GoBigOrangeVols said:
If nothing else, this case has brought to light just how backwards their system is and will ultimately hurt them from getting players that are on the fence about attending school there.
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Only to those ignorant and uninformed as to how BYU operates. Given that the Harvey Unga story got massive national play, I doubt the folks in Provo are concerned about losing the "Living under a rock" demographic.
 
#111
#111
hatvol96 said:
Only to those ignorant and uninformed as to how BYU operates. Given that the Harvey Unga story got massive national play, I doubt the folks in Provo are concerned about losing the "Living under a rock" demographic.
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the precise demographic of a good portion of young athletes that don't follow religion or current events, but only get the story off of espn.com and see that BYU doesn't allow sex, drugs, and rock and roll... or coca cola, 5 o'clock shadow, and tea... and rather than give the school a chance they cross it off their list as ass backwards and modernly irrelevant.
 
#112
#112
GoBigOrangeVols said:
the precise demographic of a good portion of young athletes that don't follow religion or current events, but only get the story off of espn.com and see that BYU doesn't allow sex, drugs, and rock and roll... or coca cola, 5 o'clock shadow, and tea... and rather than give the school a chance they cross it off their list as ass backwards and modernly irrelevant.
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and you think this just started happening after this story?
 
#113
#113
droski said:
and you think this just started happening after this story?
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Certainly not, but this story is far bigger than Harvey Unga or any other in BYU "moral code" casualty since they used up Jim McMahon's eligibility and then gave him the boot after the Holiday Bowl.
 
#114
#114
GoBigOrangeVols said:
the precise demographic of a good portion of young athletes that don't follow religion or current events, but only get the story off of espn.com and see that BYU doesn't allow sex, drugs, and rock and roll... or coca cola, 5 o'clock shadow, and tea... and rather than give the school a chance they cross it off their list as ass backwards and modernly irrelevant.
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Yeah, look at all the kids who have shown up there over the years only to be shocked at the rules. Keep posting. You're validating my opinion of you with each subsequent comment.
 
#115
#115
droski said:
and you think this just started happening after this story?
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You didn't know? BYU dupes recruits by diverting their official visits to a brothel in Vegas. Kids are totally unaware of the rules there until they enroll. It's all a huge secret.
 
#116
#116
bamacheats said:
I think there are two different punishments IIRC. It's been a few years since I studied LDS. I think excommunicated is the harsh one, no coming back, condemned to hell, that kind of thing. I think there is another one where you can be accepted back, I'm just not sure of the terminology.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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If you are disfellowshipped it just means that you can come to church but you can't actively participate (ie, teach Sunday school, etc.)
 
#117
#117
hatvol96 said:
Yeah, look at all the kids who have shown up there over the years only to be shocked at the rules. Keep posting. You're validating my opinion of you with each subsequent comment.
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the same as in the bball forum, you have no argument so you attack the poster.
 
#118
#118
hatvol96 said:
You didn't know? BYU dupes recruits by diverting their official visits to a brothel in Vegas. Kids are totally unaware of the rules there until they enroll. It's all a huge secret.
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rumspringa!!! (wrong religion?)
 
#119
#119
I wonder if the guys at the academies know what they're signing up for? Would suck to graduate and suddenly discover you have to serve a few more years
 
#120
#120
GoBigOrangeVols said:
the same as in the bball forum, you have no argument so you attack the poster.
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You're the one who keeps acting as if your faux intellectual outrage has the first relevance to this issue. Typical liberal entitlement atitude. You think because you babble about being "modern" it makes your point valid. Nope, it just makes you stupid. The day intellectual eunichs like you are able to dictate policy to private entities is the day I hope the Chinese nuke this place into oblivion.
 
#121
#121
utvolpj said:
I wonder if the guys at the academies know what they're signing up for? Would suck to graduate and suddenly discover you have to serve a few more years
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Nope. They take their recruits on visits to Disney and other amusement parks. The whole thing about marching, uniforms, and discipline is sprung on them at orientation.
 
#122
#122
hatvol96 said:
You're the one who keeps acting as if your faux intellectual outrage has the first relevance to this issue. Typical liberal entitlement atitude. You think because you babble about being "modern" it makes your point valid. Nope, it just makes you stupid. The day intellectual eunichs like you are able to dictate policy to private entities is the day I hope the Chinese nuke this place into oblivion.
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Solid.
 
#123
#123
hatvol96 said:
You're the one who keeps acting as if your faux intellectual outrage has the first relevance to this issue. Typical liberal entitlement atitude. You think because you babble about being "modern" it makes your point valid. Nope, it just makes you stupid. The day intellectual eunichs like you are able to dictate policy to private entities is the day I hope the Chinese nuke this place into oblivion.
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At what point did defending personal freedom become liberal entitlement?

Perhaps compared to a call for the "Chinese to nuke this place into oblivion" if people with views other than yourself can dictate policy is the kind of fascist reasoning that could create the perception that my conservative values do seem a wee bit liberal. :good!:
 
#124
#124
GoBigOrangeVols said:
At what point did defending personal freedom become liberal entitlement?

Perhaps compared to a call for the "Chinese to nuke this place into oblivion" if people with views other than yourself can dictate policy is the kind of fascist reasoning that could create the perception that my conservative values do seem a wee bit liberal. :good!:
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You basically realized he freely gave that up when eh went to school there, right?

I'm also guessing you think it's a violation of freedom that my firm requires at minimum business professional dress as well?
 
#125
#125
GoBigOrangeVols said:
At what point did defending personal freedom become liberal entitlement?

Perhaps compared to a call for the "Chinese to nuke this place into oblivion" if people with views other than yourself can dictate policy is the kind of fascist reasoning that could create the perception that my conservative values do seem a wee bit liberal. :good!:
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You mean like personal freedom to choose to go to a private school that has a strict code if violated can lead to dismissal?
 
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